Tapering off of poppy pods

[HamClamp]

I forgot all about Kanna! Good call Bo.

I used to chew a pinch with gum to get a mood lift. It definitely works- I overdid it once and was flying! I got it as a sample with an order of something or other and once it was gone I kinda forgot about it.

I haven't dosed since yesterday morning and I don't feel like I need to. I'm gonna take a couple grams to work in case something weird happens but otherwise it looks like I'm jumping. If I feel a crappy I've got Sat. and Sun to deal with it. I would never have guessed this would happen.

It's GOT to be because of the weak pods.

Here goes nothing. Friday the 13th- a perfect day to quit.

Hang in there everybody and keep pushing through!


Peace.

 

[HamClamp]

I take 2 500 mg tablets in the morning with (1) B6. I think you can take more, but it tends to make me jittery if I take more than 2 pills. Its no miracle, but I can tell a difference when I forget to take it.

Oh, I get what you are saying about the PAWS thing. I take no offense to that at all and I agree with you. You name something and it can make a problem bigger than it already is. I guess I called it by its "name" because I didn't know what else to call it, but what you said the depression, lethargy, etc. afterwards I am somewhat I worried about. Mainly because of the underlying depression and anxiety I have anyway. But, oh well, I will get through whatever the after effects of kicking this habit throws at me. I am looking into addiction counseling and hopefully that will help me get through and tackle it head on.

Hope your night is going well enough!

I used for the same reasons: depression/anxiety. You've got a warrior spirit and your willingness to do whatever it takes will see you through. I am SO proud of you. You're kicking ass!

Peace.

 

[mlk_2900]

I used for the same reasons: depression/anxiety. You've got a warrior spirit and your willingness to do whatever it takes will see you through. I am SO proud of you. You're kicking ass!

Peace.

Thanks so much, although I am not yet to the point of being proud of myself. I really needed to read what you quoted of mine this morning though as I am having a bad morning. I do believe I tapered way down too quickly, so I am back at 4g today and it is only barely holding me. So no jumping for me yet, though I thought I was ready. If I had a few days where I didn't have to be a mom I would go for it because it isn't unbearable, but well those days don't exist for me. So, onward with the taper plan for me. I am so, so glad to hear you are doing well and jumping already. That is beyond wonderful! Hope the day goes well for you today, you deserve it!

Bojangles, I am going to look into kanna, thanks for mentioning it! I am prescribed an SSRI and did start taking it again last week, but am thinking of stopping. I really don't like some of the side effects the SSRI gives me and for me it always takes a month or more to take effect. But, if I go the kanna route I will certainly make sure that I allow plenty of time for the SSRI to be out of my system, don't want to even venture near serotonin syndrome.

 

[ArtVandalay]

^

Have you tried Tramadol? I'm getting some more to help with the taper. A lot of people advise against it because it has opiate properties. But the ssri aspect seems to help a lot. You just don't want to trade one addiction for another (some people can't stand tramadol, the effects seem to varry a lot from person to person).

 

[Help me please]

Hi everyone.

Mlk, Ham gave me your message. Thank you!

I just wanted to say that I started my taper yesterday. Ham made me a 33 day schedule that I am following. My doctor gave me a script for 30 mgs morphine every 8 hours for one week and then drop that to 15 mg every 8 hours for the following three weeks. Ham's way makes more sense to me! Dr gave me a script for 4 more clonidine patches and since they take about 2 days to start to work I put one on yesterday. I had two left from the first initial taper before the 4th of July weekend.

Ham has me dropping by 7.5 mgs every three days. I only drop that for one of my doses each day. I can post it if anyone wants to see what he did.

The half life of MS IR is pretty fast and I never felt anything weird last night after the first dose drop (it was my 4 pm dose). Not sure there really would be much to feel. I am very positive this will work for me. Ham is making sure I have plenty of support from him too and I try to do the same for him.

I think I can stop in here again without freaking out. If I do start to panic then all I have to do is hide again. Might not be here as often but I will be here in this thread. Has has been very generous in sharing his spotlight with all of us He's a shining example of what a friend should be whether you know them in the real or virtual world!

Anyway, glad to be back.

 

[Bojangles69]

Haha yeh Kanna is an old one. But definitely one herb I've always had serious respect for. I remember first time I took kanna I felt like I was "flying" just like Hamclamp said. It makes you wanna get up and walk around for no apparent reason, I think just because it feels so good to move when you're on Kanna. And I definitely noticed a similar mood increase kinda like tramadol, just that kanna has a bit more of an mdma'ish feel to it. I was super empathic on Kanna asking people about every detail of the personal life, and it really is powerful for what it does imo.

Now HEMP, I'm confused why your doctor is giving you clonidine patches, I guess you haven't figured out yet but the patches do suck pretty badly. I've heard a lot of people who took clonidine patches saying they noticed almost nothing, but the pills get into your blood through a much more preferable route. So remember, if the clonidine doesn't hold you maybe ask your doc to just give you the pills.

Also, about hams tapering method 7.5mg every 3 days should be barely noticeable. Doctors tend to usually taper in a way that suits the actual dose of the pill your taking. Like "just break it in half on week 2... then break it in half again for week 3 etc etc". They really are not too versed on tapering unless they're some sort of addiction specialist. But obviously with any taper its more important to follow your bodies actual ability to regulate rather than a specific schedule, so if you need to make changes at any point don't be too hesistant about revising.

I'd still try to get the clonidine pills though, you prob don't need them either way, but I'm a bit puzzled why he would prescribe the patches to begin. Great to see everyone moving along nicely here. One of these days (hopefully early next week) my sleep meds will be here and ohhh myyy godddddd I can't wait for that day. Just to know I can stop this tiny dose of sub and sleep will be such a liberating feeling I don't think anyone really knows how happy I'll be. Keeping my fingers crossed here for EVERYONE.

 

[Help me please]

Bo the clonidine patches saved me when I went through that bad WD last month. Why not use them again? Pretty sure my pain doctor is fairly well versed in coming off opiates. He may be dragging it out but he knows what he's doing. I've spoken to 2 pharmacist about the patches as well. The pills are typically prescribed only for the first two days when used for WD. That is because it takes 24 to 36 hours for the patch to kick in.

I am confident Ham's taper is the ticket for me to be off all opiates in another 32 days. I also don't anticipate feeling any ill effects of WD. I'm really sorry you are having such troubles Bo.

Here's my schedule from Ham. I take the doses at 8 am, 4 pm, and then midnight.

If I was you, right now, on 30mg 3x/day (no matter the size of the pills. That doesn't matter. Only the millgrams matter) here is how I would taper:

30 /22.5 / 30 for 3 days.

30 / 15 / 30 for 3 days

30 / 7.5 / 30 for 3 days

22.5 / 7.5 / 30 "

15 / 7.5 / 30 "

15 / 7.5 / 22.5 "

15 / 7.5 / 15 "

7.5 / 7.5 / 15 "

7.5 / 7.5 / 7.5 "

7.5 / 0 / 7.5 "

7.5 /0 / 0 " (or dose evening instead of morning to ensure sleep here)

0 / 0 / 0 for infinite days

33 days

 

[HamClamp]

^^Aw for cryin' out loud you're gonna make me blush over here sheesh...

No one understands us addicts like us addicts. The rest of the world, although they smoke cigs, drink coffee, and never miss happy hour, looks down on us so we end up having to look out for each other. It works both ways: I'd never have made it this far without everyone here who pitched in with ideas, support, or the sharing of their own challenges. Lets face it- for some of us we are all we've got.

I'm trippin': I have not dosed since yesterday morning and I'm feeling alright. Depression is hammering me and I've got that gnawing anxiety in my belly and head but I'm hanging in there. Now the hard part begins: I've got to get a life and stay clean. When I say "clean" I mean no opiates. I don't drink alcohol any more and I know that if I so much as had a couple drinks I'd be headed right back to a relapse. Even if I didn't go back to opies I'd end up coming home from work every night and drinking. I don't want to go there any more so no booze for me. It adds to depression and gives me anxiety the next day and I also lose any sense of sound judgement. I'll smoke some herb and play some music but that's about it.

I guess the plan now is to keep busy and get exercise and I'm going to start on the L-Tyrosine with B6, some 5-HTP, and Nigella Sativa Oil. I probably should have been taking that stuff all along but I didn't want to load my gut up with a bunch of stuff on top of all the loperamide. I'm going to taper off of that to (hopefully) avoid rebound runs or any more w/ds. I read an article (wish I'd bookmarked it now dammit) that went in depth about Lope indeed causing withdrawals.

Hell I'm rambling here. I'm doing better than I ever thought possible. I can't believe I jumped and I'm a day and a half out already. Those shitty expensive and totally weak pods wre a blessing in disguise for sure.

I hope everyone is hanging tough and doing well tonight and every night. I thank everyone who has been here for me through all of this. I really blows my mind how so many strangers, addicts all, be they active, recovering, or still fighting, have all stepped up and helped out. I'm grateful for all of and I'm indebted to all of you. Thank you ALL so very much.

Peace.

 

[HamClamp]

Haha yeh Kanna is an old one. But definitely one herb I've always had serious respect for. I remember first time I took kanna I felt like I was "flying" just like Hamclamp said.

Isn't that something? I remember it was a Saturday morning and I was chewing it with some gum. Within 15 minutes I could actually feel my mood rise. It was NOT subtle- I FLT it happen. It was pretty amazing. I used it recrationally until it was gone and since I was in a pretty good space emotionally at that time I never thought about it again. I had forgotten all about it until you and Q brought it up. I'm thinking if the L-tyro/B6/5-HPT fails me I'll give it a try. I remember the vendor and I'll try it if I'm still depressed in a couple weeks.


<snipped cuz I don't know a damn thing about Clonidine>

Also, about hams tapering method 7.5mg every 3 days should be barely noticeable. Doctors tend to usually taper in a way that suits the actual dose of the pill your taking. Like "just break it in half on week 2... then break it in half again for week 3 etc etc". They really are not too versed on tapering unless they're some sort of addiction specialist. But obviously with any taper its more important to follow your bodies actual ability to regulate rather than a specific schedule, so if you need to make changes at any point don't be too hesistant about revising.

Yeah for sure. 7.5mg out of 90/day will not be felt. She's got 15mg. pills so it made it easy to work it out.

All the plannning and schedules in the world, though, don't mean a thing if your hurting. I felt like I was cheating of something by sitting extra days but that's bullshit. I knew in my heart I wasn't cheating. The object of a taper, after all, is to quit relatively comfortably so listen to your body- it will never lie to you!

I too think that a lot of doctors just don't get it. Even if they are empathetic it doesn't matter. Until you expereince it first-hand you just don't understand.

I'd still try to get the clonidine pills though, you prob don't need them either way, but I'm a bit puzzled why he would prescribe the patches to begin. Great to see everyone moving along nicely here. One of these days (hopefully early next week) my sleep meds will be here and ohhh myyy godddddd I can't wait for that day. Just to know I can stop this tiny dose of sub and sleep will be such a liberating feeling I don't think anyone really knows how happy I'll be. Keeping my fingers crossed here for EVERYONE.

Dude I can't wait until you can get some proper sleep. You'll feel SO much better. I don't care what a person does- if you run low on sleep you're screwed and every system in the body and mind is affected. Sleep deprivation is brutal. I'll be so happy to see you post "I slept x hours last night and woke up feeling GREAT!". I can't wait.

Thanks for all your support Bo. Your taper was my inspiration for this one. I'd been kicking it around and knew I had to do it but you know how that goes- a day becomes a week becomes months and you know the rest. You were key in getting me off my ass and into action and you didn't even know it. Thanks brother.

Hang tough.

 

[Bojangles69]

Haha thanks a lot Hammy (can I call you hammy?)

Couldn't agree more with everything you said. I remember when I jumped off I was just waiting and waiting for day 3 to come. But by day 2 my symptoms had not progressed at all. So towards nighttime of day 2 I started getting the feeling "maybe I really made it!", and then I woke up day 3 and it was official at that point. No hot flashes, no chills, no pain, no anxiety or depression... I genuinely felt one of the most liberating feelings I've ever felt in my life.

It just sucks that throughout my entire taper, sleep was the LAST thing on my mind. And I think that was the case because I was on so many meds during my last cold turkey, I had no reason to really focus on sleep. I was focused on all those symptoms I was having from day 1, like the hot flashes/pains and everything I mentioned above. But sleep couldn't have been any farther from my mind, and I'm absolutely paying for it now.

When I first jumped off I wasn't sleeping great at all, but those first few days I was able to still get 4-6 hours a night. For WHATEVER REASON in the world, once I got to day 6 I noticed it was actually regressing and getting worse. And that was around when I really expected it to start getting better. I was PERFECT, really I was so good at that point. For whatever reason I don't really get anxious or depressed that easily from wds. I do get everything else however. But just to see how sleep alone starting changing my mental health so severely, it quickly became a new and huge fear for me.
By day 7 I was willing to try anything, which is when I found those phenibut samples in my room. And then when I didn't sleep 1 minute night 8 I can't even explain what state my mind was in. Crying for no reason when I was driving, vision was getting blurry by the day, anxiety had all a sudden jumped through the roof.
What pissed me off is it really had NOTHING to do with actual wds. It was all directly tied to not getting sleep (well insomnia is a wd symptom I just mean I wasn't expecting the insomnia to create worse symptoms than the opiates themself). And it still pisses me off today how much I was caught off guard.

But I WILL persist through this, theres just no other way at this point. My taper honestly wasn't about getting off drugs. In all honesty weeks before I started I had grown so disgusted with my overall life. I came into this taper with the thought "I'm building myself a new and better life", not really "I just need to stop doing drugs". Because I realized at that point if I didn't fix my life in someway, or do something to better myself, that I'd just be back on pods in another year or 2.

Its really a tough situation sometimes, but you said it the best. The PEOPLE in these threads are ONLY what keeps me fighting. I could have easily lost focus months ago not having this forum to post on, so I thank bluelight a lot more than I thank myself. Everyday I come in this thread to see how hammy is doing. And I HATE to say this, but the days you are doing bad is what actually gives me the most strength. Never forget that. When I see you're truely having a tough time, I associate it directly to my own abilities. "If he doesn't make it I might not make it" and I know thats not true on one level, but on another level its almost impossible to still not feel that way. Thats why when I come back at night, and see you made it through that tough day, it just keeps sealing my faith in my own ability to keep going.

For whatever reason when I use to see people starting pod tapers in the past I always would say "they're not gonna make it.. who are they kidding?" but now it seems when I see new taper threads started I almost think the opposite all the time. Like "they got it they can do this" and the ONLY thing that has actually changed, is that now I believe I can successfully taper of an opiate habit. And its pretty funny how we project all that stuff onto other people. Like "if I can do it you can do it" and what not. We know its not technically true, but for my own sanity it def helps to just have the faith now.

Good going bro I'm really hoping you wake up tommorow and nothing has escalated, you did this taper perfectly (well prob a bit too quick for my own tastes tbo lol) and I really think you've finally broke the addiction. Now its time to go battle the sleep demons. Cya all tommorow! - Bo

 

[Help me please]

Now HEMP, I'm confused why your doctor is giving you clonidine patches, I guess you haven't figured out yet but the patches do suck pretty badly. I've heard a lot of people who took clonidine patches saying they noticed almost nothing, but the pills get into your blood through a much more preferable route. So remember, if the clonidine doesn't hold you maybe ask your doc to just give you the pills.

Bo, I just realized that you have no idea how my doctor wants me to taper. He wrote the new script for one more week on 30 mg every 8 hours and then drop to 15 mg every 8 hours for the next three weeks till I see him again. He is a very compassionate doctor and as he knew what I went through last month probably wanted to cover me just in case. He may have forgot that I still had 2 unused patches from then and the boxes come 4 to a pack so I had 6 now. Since I already know they take 24 to 36 hours to work I put it on from day one. Assuming my BP does not drop to dangerous levels what harm is there in wearing them? It's not likely I will take one off to see if they were needed or not this time. I have no desire to go through WD again!

Ham...It's the end of the second day Thank you! Bed time for me. No nap today! Wow. Coffee and brewed ice tea works wonders.

 

[mlk_2900]

Hi everyone.

Mlk, Ham gave me your message. Thank you!

I think I can stop in here again without freaking out. If I do start to panic then all I have to do is hide again. Might not be here as often but I will be here in this thread. Has has been very generous in sharing his spotlight with all of us He's a shining example of what a friend should be whether you know them in the real or virtual world!

Anyway, glad to be back.

No problem, I hope it was of some help. I am glad to see you are back, but if anything starts freaking you out again do take a break if needed. Its much better to take a break than to let the panic get to you.

With Ham's help with a taper plan, I am certain you will be just fine. The way he plans out taper plans is wonderful and very doable. He helped me with mine as well. I couldn't agree more with your last statement. Ham is truly what a friend should be and I personally can't imagine that I would have gotten to the point I am at without his help, advice, encouragement, honesty, and push when needed!

I will be thinking of you, please keep us all updated when you can.

^^Aw for cryin' out loud you're gonna make me blush over here sheesh...

No one understands us addicts like us addicts. The rest of the world, although they smoke cigs, drink coffee, and never miss happy hour, looks down on us so we end up having to look out for each other. It works both ways: I'd never have made it this far without everyone here who pitched in with ideas, support, or the sharing of their own challenges. Lets face it- for some of us we are all we've got.

I'm trippin': I have not dosed since yesterday morning and I'm feeling alright. Depression is hammering me and I've got that gnawing anxiety in my belly and head but I'm hanging in there. Now the hard part begins: I've got to get a life and stay clean. When I say "clean" I mean no opiates. I don't drink alcohol any more and I know that if I so much as had a couple drinks I'd be headed right back to a relapse. Even if I didn't go back to opies I'd end up coming home from work every night and drinking. I don't want to go there any more so no booze for me. It adds to depression and gives me anxiety the next day and I also lose any sense of sound judgement. I'll smoke some herb and play some music but that's about it.

I guess the plan now is to keep busy and get exercise and I'm going to start on the L-Tyrosine with B6, some 5-HTP, and Nigella Sativa Oil. I probably should have been taking that stuff all along but I didn't want to load my gut up with a bunch of stuff on top of all the loperamide. I'm going to taper off of that to (hopefully) avoid rebound runs or any more w/ds. I read an article (wish I'd bookmarked it now dammit) that went in depth about Lope indeed causing withdrawals.

Hell I'm rambling here. I'm doing better than I ever thought possible. I can't believe I jumped and I'm a day and a half out already. Those shitty expensive and totally weak pods wre a blessing in disguise for sure.

I hope everyone is hanging tough and doing well tonight and every night. I thank everyone who has been here for me through all of this. I really blows my mind how so many strangers, addicts all, be they active, recovering, or still fighting, have all stepped up and helped out. I'm grateful for all of and I'm indebted to all of you. Thank you ALL so very much.

Peace.

You have such a way with words Ham. There is such truth in the fact that no one understands us like others who have or are currently battling an addiction. The world does tend to look down on us, but hey thats ok, we find solace and strength in each other and are better off for it!

I am so glad to hear the withdrawals, at least physically, are done for you. It is wonderful and very encouraging to hear that you are doing so well. I am looking forward to that day as well when I jump, it may be a bit longer, but I know it will come. I am determined for it to. I know you had some rough days there due to these crazy weak pods, but in the end they truly were a blessing in disguise for you. Please do keep us updated. I am interested in how the L-tyrosine/B6/5-HTP combo works for you.

Its really a tough situation sometimes, but you said it the best. The PEOPLE in these threads are ONLY what keeps me fighting. I could have easily lost focus months ago not having this forum to post on, so I thank bluelight a lot more than I thank myself. Everyday I come in this thread to see how hammy is doing. And I HATE to say this, but the days you are doing bad is what actually gives me the most strength. Never forget that. When I see you're truely having a tough time, I associate it directly to my own abilities. "If he doesn't make it I might not make it" and I know thats not true on one level, but on another level its almost impossible to still not feel that way. Thats why when I come back at night, and see you made it through that tough day, it just keeps sealing my faith in my own ability to keep going.

For whatever reason when I use to see people starting pod tapers in the past I always would say "they're not gonna make it.. who are they kidding?" but now it seems when I see new taper threads started I almost think the opposite all the time. Like "they got it they can do this" and the ONLY thing that has actually changed, is that now I believe I can successfully taper of an opiate habit. And its pretty funny how we project all that stuff onto other people. Like "if I can do it you can do it" and what not. We know its not technically true, but for my own sanity it def helps to just have the faith now.

Good going bro I'm really hoping you wake up tommorow and nothing has escalated, you did this taper perfectly (well prob a bit too quick for my own tastes tbo lol) and I really think you've finally broke the addiction. Now its time to go battle the sleep demons. Cya all tommorow! - Bo

I am with you Bo, I am eternally thankful to bluelight for getting me even to the point I am currently at. Hearing from others, including you and your thread, that have been there is sometimes all that keeps us going. I am almost certain if it wasn't for finding this place and reaching out for support I would have ended up at an addiction clinic on some crazy dose of suboxone by now. Not that I am knocking suboxone, but for me I don't think I would have ever realized I could do this and would have seen subs as my only way out.

I read so much about people not being able to taper off of pods and likewise some posts telling others that they didn't think they would be successful in it. I hope all these threads now one day give someone else hope that they can do it as well.

I hope your sleep issues get resolved soon. Sleep deprivation is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I have been there, not from withdrawals, but just overall insomnia and I really thought I was going crazy. It can effect every part of your life. I know things for your will be so much better when you can get some decent sleep. Hopefully that will come sooner than later and you will be on here telling us that you slept and feel great! Hang in there!

 

[unsettled]

This taper has taught me alot about myself and where I'm at, I've learned I want to move forward with my life in a way that doesn't revolve around getting high and always having pills on hand. However I just don't think I'm ready to completely quit drugs altogether, I'm seriously considering getting a suboxone script mainly because it would allow me to live my life in a more balanced way than I am at the moment.

I never thought I'd turn to heroin because of poppy pods but damn those things are so much more potent than the average person thinks. Lately I've been smoking the minimal amount of H to keep me out of withdrawal (which is one hell of a challenge, I swear I just want to sit there and smoke it all at once)..... one interesting sidenote is that I swear I got higher on pods than I'm getting on H, and I know it's decent quality as far as tar goes cuz it's the same stuff my friend uses who uses H daily and has been for years. I think it's that instant euphoria that you get when you hold in a hit that makes H so much more mentally addicting.

But for me personally I prefer something longer lasting like pods, I do like the lightness of the H, pods made me feel very heavy after awhile....

Anyway, I really just want to stabilize on subs for awhile and get on with my life. I know I'm not ready to quit completely yet, I know I'll just switch addictions so I'm going to try and switch to a legally prescribed drug that does what I need it to do. I know it's not a long term answer but it's more practical than keeping up a pod or heroin habit.

I really am impressed with all of you that are attempting to go completely clean, I've tried but I'm just not there yet, but I will continue to try and lead a more sober, more balanced life even if I have to lean on subs for an indefinite period of time.

 

[HamClamp]

Good morning guys and gals!

I hope this message finds everyone in good spirits, feeling hopeful, and thinking in a positive direction.

Now if I can only do the same, huh? Nah I'm feeling good. It's now been 48 hours with no opiates. Today will tell the tale as to whether I'm out of the woods or not. Day-three is the big one for pods. I'm still using lope so that *might*cover up any pods w/ds at this point. I'm going to start tapering my lope dose tomorrow.

Pods pods pods! In the past 24 hours I've gotten 5 emails. Three from vendors letting me know the late summer crop is in and two from forum pals (different forum) that didn't know I was givng up the "hobby". Talk about timing, huh? It's cool- it makes no difference as far as craving or not craving. Just ironic. I started the taper and my own poppy garden came into season and I'm ending it as the vendors are getting ready to ship. No big deal- just thinking out loud here. Lots of stuff running through my head there days.

I started on the L-Tyrosine/B6/%-HTP this moring. I promptly puked them up as well. They are supposed to be taken on an empty stomach but 3 big pills and a fistful of lope was NOT my belly's idea of a well-balanced breakfast. That sucked lol! I'll try it aagin tomorrow AFTER a light bite to eat like toast or something.

***********

Unsettled:

Sounds like you're going through some big changes inside. I think (and this is just my thoughts with no first-hand knowledge/experience) that sub might be the right way to go for you. I'm neither for nor against any form of maintenance. It might be all the difference you need to focus in the direction you want and need to without the repercussions of illicit use. Keeping a constant, consistant, and affordable supply of pods if almost impossible any more and H is, realistically, not the way to go either. I think your consideration of Sub maint. is some very sound thinking and I hope it works out for you. Please keep us posted once the ball gets rolling okay? In the meantime be careful with the H! Everythng from copping to using is dangerous. Hell- you know that but I've gotta say it, ya know?

I've gotten WAY higher of pods than H. In different ways just like you said. Pods have some serious legs. When dosed juuuuust right it was (I hesitate to say this) perfect. H was much more addictive mentally for me. The rush. They both pretty much brought me to the same place just different routes.

You've got some serious power of restraint if you're able to smoke just enough tar to stave off w/ds. How long can you keep it up before you say F it and go for the gold? I'm not dogging on you by any means. Just being realistic. I hope you can get the sub ball rolling right away. It's legal and if you can refrain from abusing it it will probably bring you to a much better place in your life. I hope it all goes well for you!

***************

Lots of babbling to follow:

Like Unsettled I'm not shooting for 100% clean either. I like a little herb now and then. I smoked daily for a long time. These days (taper excluded) it's more of a once a week thing. I'm honestly not sure that I even want to give it up.

I'm concerned about depression and anxiety. I never experienced either until I was in my early 40's. An unhealthy relationship with a disordered gal brought me to using non-recreationally for the first time in my life. Alcohol was too hard on my body and mind so I switched over to pods. They honestly got me through the toughest darkest period of my life. Of course I now have to deal with all the stuff that's been suppressed and it's gonna be tough.

I'm going to try the natural route first. The L-Tyro/B6/5-HTP as well as Nigella Sativa Oil first. I know it's gonna take some time and effort. It's going to be dark for a while. I'm scared to death of getting caught up in an endless loop of meds and I'm uninsured right now so I hope I can get this stuff worked out. I've always, prior to the relationship thing, been able to pull myself through hard times. I'm older now, more tired, and honestly I'm scared. But I'm gonna give it a try on my own first. I'm giving myself until next spring, about six months from now, and if I'm not 95% on top of my game then I'll have no choice but to seek help from the pros. I'm going to start putting away my monthly pod budget to either buy insurance (self-employment sucks in this regard) or to pay for therapy and meds.

I have no idea why I'm talking about this stuff this morning wow. Purging I guess. My emotions are SO strong right now. It's pretty overwhelming to be honest. I've been swinging from elated to crushing depression to hopeful to hopeless 10 times a day now. It's tiring mentally for sure. I had to restart a TV show I was watching last night three times because I was so caught up in my thoughts. Poor Hemp got hammered with emails from me. The poor dear got an earful for sure. I'm sure she's afraid to check her email this morning cuz man oh man I was just pouring it out. Kinda like I'm doing here right now.

Shit I neeed to close this post. This is a tread about tapering NOT my personal whine-fest. So anyways....

Hang in there good people! Stay strong and if you're not strong fake it. Just go through the motions. Hang in there. One step at a time. One challenge at a time.

Thanks for reading.

Peace.

 

[Help me please]

I'm older now, more tired, and honestly I'm scared. But I'm gonna give it a try on my own first. I'm giving myself until next spring, about six months from now, and if I'm not 95% on top of my game then I'll have no choice but to seek help from the pros. I'm going to start putting away my monthly pod budget to either buy insurance (self-employment sucks in this regard) or to pay for therapy and meds.

I have no idea why I'm talking about this stuff this morning wow. Purging I guess. My emotions are SO strong right now. It's pretty overwhelming to be honest. I've been swinging from elated to crushing depression to hopeful to hopeless 10 times a day now. It's tiring mentally for sure. I had to restart a TV show I was watching last night three times because I was so caught up in my thoughts. Poor Hemp got hammered with emails from me. The poor dear got an earful for sure. I'm sure she's afraid to check her email this morning cuz man oh man I was just pouring it out. Kinda like I'm doing here right now.

Ham, that's a really great idea about stashing the pod money just in case you need to use it for meds/dr bills later on. Now you and I both know that's not an abnormal nor doomsday thinking thing to do. You and I both think ahead and make lists etc. so it just makes sense to plan for 6 months from now!

You are worried you emailed me too much? You do get all my emails don't you? Better check your spam folder just in case because I know I have emailed you numerous times in a matter of a few hours!

Ham you made it through the worst part of all this. The residuals and personal part will all fall in place over time. Might not be as planned as your taper but it will happen.

Today starts day three of my taper which means only 30 days left for me. And for that I thank you again Ham

Now I will go check my emails.

EDIT: My bp is 109/71 and I have a tiny headache coming on so I took an ibuprofen. How low can I go? The patch obviously kicked in.

 

[Help me please]

At noon my BP was 116/61. It was 109/71 and hour ago. Patch is working but is this too low? I do feel a bit anxious now but more than likely from the BP issue. I have always had lowish BP and at times nurses couldn't even "find" one on me. It runs in my family. I have never been out on meds for this and have never had any issues because of it (passing out etc.). Not I am stumped. I really don't want to take the patch off and then find out I go through WD for a 7.5 mg drop in morphine! Any ideas?

EDIT: Got hold of my PCP and he said that was okay for me. He told me to drink lots of water and eat some salty foods. Said soy sauce in Chinese food is a good way to do that. I'm going to make some stir fry? Hey Ham, you hungry?

So I'll just keep monitoring the BP and maybe cut an extra dose today.

 

[mlk_2900]

At noon my BP was 116/61. It was 109/71 and hour ago. Patch is working but is this too low? I do feel a bit anxious now but more than likely from the BP issue. I have always had lowish BP and at times nurses couldn't even "find" one on me. It runs in my family. I have never been out on meds for this and have never had any issues because of it (passing out etc.). Not I am stumped. I really don't want to take the patch off and then find out I go through WD for a 7.5 mg drop in morphine! Any ideas?

EDIT: Got hold of my PCP and he said that was okay for me. He told me to drink lots of water and eat some salty foods. Said soy sauce in Chinese food is a good way to do that. I'm going to make some stir fry? Hey Ham, you hungry?

So I'll just keep monitoring the BP and maybe cut an extra dose today.

Glad you got hold of your PCP. I agree that it sounds find, esp. if you have had a history of lowish blood pressure. I am glad to find someone with lower blood pressure that is on clonidine. That is something that the clinic I am looking into was mentioning to me as something they could prescribe me, but I was a bit concerned because I have a history of low blood pressure already. It has never bothered me, but has scared the doctors before. They once would not let me out of the ER (there for an entirely different reason) because my BP was I think 70/30, yet I felt fine. I can be walking about and it is normally 90/60. Salty foods help a ton if the blood pressure gets low. I have done that quite a bit to help raise mine at times. So, go have a nice salty snack.

 

[Help me please]

^ MLK, the stir fry did the trick. Back up to 141/71 now. I guess I'm not really a salt eater!
The patch does do wonders for WD. I had such a huge drop and by all accounts was so undermedicated when I first went from the oxymorphone (opana er) and norcos to 15 mg morphine sulfate and at first I only took 7.5 mg's of the stuff. It was horrific WD. But within a bit more than 36 hours I started to feel better. Might have just had some PTSD by then

What kind of clinic? Out patient I assume since you have a little one at home. Do you have help with the child when you go through any rough times with tapering or have you had any yet?

EDIT: So I just dropped my 4 pm dose down to 15 mg rather than the 22.5 mg dose. This was my last day on the 22.5 dose anyway. I still am at 30 mg at the other 2 doses.

 

[mlk_2900]

^ MLK, the stir fry did the trick. Back up to 141/71 now. I guess I'm not really a salt eater!
The patch does do wonders for WD. I had such a huge drop and by all accounts was so undermedicated when I first went from the oxymorphone (opana er) and norcos to 15 mg morphine sulfate and at first I only took 7.5 mg's of the stuff. It was horrific WD. But within a bit more than 36 hours I started to feel better. Might have just had some PTSD by then

What kind of clinic? Out patient I assume since you have a little one at home. Do you have help with the child when you go through any rough times with tapering or have you had any yet?

EDIT: So I just dropped my 4 pm dose down to 15 mg rather than the 22.5 mg dose. This was my last day on the 22.5 dose anyway. I still am at 30 mg at the other 2 doses.

Glad the stir-fry helped, salty food will do it every time. My mom has had some issues with low blood pressure (guess that is where I get it from) including fainting spells etc., so she actually carries around a little salt packet and if she feels it getting low has been known to just open it up and take the salt just like that. It doesn't taste the best, but it works.

Whew, I can only imagine the WD you felt before, that is a major drop! I think that would give me some PTSD as well!

Yes, it is an outpatient clinic. I am hoping I don't have to fully go that route. Hopefully, the tapering works and I can just go there for some counseling. Either way though, it is nice to have the option. I am offically meeting with them this week just as a consultation. I have talked to the doctor in depth on the phone though and really do like the feeling I get from them, which is good. As far as help with my little boy, I don't have a lot. My mom keeps him while I work part-time so she really isn't able to help much more than that. On my days off I am pretty much on my own to care for him. Which can be stressful when the withdrawals hit and is the main reason I have to taper down rather slowly. My husband is around most evenings at least, but he often works overtime at his job so some days its just me and him from morning to bedtime. He is my everything, but whew he has a lot of energy and never wants me to leave his side. I know you know how that is though since you babysit your grandson.

Wow, you are already down to 15 mg for one of your doses? That is awesome! You are doing great and will be done with this in no time. These meds were prescribed for pain correct? Do you have any idea what you will do for pain once your get off the meds?



Ham, hope you are doing well out there this evening! By the way, I probably should have mentioned I almost always take my L-tyrosine and B6 with at least a couple crackers. I know it works better on an empty stomach, but I have never been one to be able to stomach vitamins or medication without eating a little something.

 

[Bojangles69]

I'm curious what your blood pressure would be off the clonidine HEMP. I think they had me on 200mcg for 14 days, and the lowest my blood pressure ever got was like 180/100, which is obviously not low at all.

I've always wondered if my natural disposition to high BP is what also causes my insomnia. Because at that point I was on 200mcg clonidine, 2mg ativan, 4mg klonopin, 80mg inderal and visterol (forget dose) and almost nothing brought my blood pressure down. I mean thats A LOT of meds that cause respiratory depression and to not have my BP come down at all is really making me wonder about this.
I'm really thinking I should get it tested tommorow, its prob 90% of the reason I can't sleep at night.

Off opiates it will usually hang around 160/85, and the highest its ever gone during wds was 220/120, I was basically hypertensive the entire time. I remember that day specifically because my whole body had started shaking uncontrollably, and I had to flag down a nurse at which point they took my BP and upped all my meds, + made me go lay down for the rest of the day.

This HAS to be whats affecting my sleep. Cause even when I lay down at night my heart is always pounding like crazy. I'm seriously thinking I may just go get prescribed a high dose of inderal, my meds will be here soon enough, but I need it for school anyway (public speaking) so I might as well just go get it now. Than once I have it I can double/triple dose and see if it will actually keep my bp down... which I don't think it will. Cause like I said during wds in the clinic it seemed nothing could keep my bp down. I remember the nurses always making a frowny type face after they gave me meds, then came back in an hour and put the strap on my arm, and I'd answer for them everytime "it didn't come down huh?" and sure enough they're answer was always "not really".

I'm not unhealthy or obese, I'm just genetically predisposed, smoke cigs, drink lots of coffee, and have a history of speed abuse. I think part of the reason I run and workout so much is because it brings my BP down a couple of notches and I feel calmer afterwards. Reading this as I'm writing is just really clarifying the fact that I may never really sleep good again untill my bp officially starts coming down. And OMG, thats prob also why Kratom wound up aggravating my insomnia, because Kratom always raises my blood pressure.

Its a good thing you started talking about your BP a lot HEMP because I'm really thinking my insomnia may not be as complicated I was originally thinking it was. I'm gonna go to the supermarket to get it tested tommorow in one of those machines, I know its high but if I'm hypertensive at least Ill have an excuse to go to the dr at that point, and I won't have to tell him I'm in wds either.