Chronic LSD Psychosis?

[DarkSideoftheWall]

I haven't read every post so far, but in regards to Syd Barrett, it is also believed he did have some kind of condition that I assume LSD exasperated. I had a link, it's on a book his sister wrote or something, can't seem to find it. But apparently as a kid he would often jump up in the middle of the night and conduct orchestras I think I read.

 

[time traveler]

I haven't read every post so far,

Well bugger off then

 

[Ismene]

The idea that Syd Barratt problems were caused by LSD is complete and utter fucking horseshit.

Syd Barratt was schizophrenic. He developed schizophrenia at the age when you develop schizophrenia, just like every other schizophrenic does. If he had never taken LSD in his life he would have developed schizophrenia at exactly the same time.

People blame it on the acid because it sounds more romantic than saying "He was mentally ill". John Lennon took more LSD than Syd Barratt could ever dream of and never had the slightest problem.

The idea that Syd Barratt problems were caused by LSD is complete and utter fucking horseshit.

Syd Barratt was a schizophrenic. He developed schizophrenia at the age when you develop schizophrenia, just like every other schizophrenic does. If he had never taken LSD in his life he would have developed schizophrenia at exactly the same time.

People blame it on the acid because it sounds more romantic than saying "He was mentally ill". It's just like anyone who'se mentally ill - some kid in the street will say "He took too much acid and never came down" and people nod their heads and think it's true. It's bollocks.

 

[Dalfir]

Anyone who has done LSD can plainly see it is a real possibility. Some of our community denies this out of blind hedonism but most of us know at least a few casualties (hint: many of those denying this phenomenon and blaming it on underlyin psychological problems are the ones who got fried and want others to share in their delusion/misery).

I've often been in situations where I've definitely understood how someone with a predisposition to schizophrenia or OCD could find themselves in trouble, often weird dilemmas that feel that they're pulling my mind apart or some other psychedelic oddities. I think anyone that's done acid can also see its potential to seriously fuck up the weak minded.

In discussions like this I always think back to a Stephen King short-story about worm-hole technology I read awhile ago. When testing the experience on humans they first use a convicted criminal as a guinea pig to travel light-years in seconds and back again. Once he arrives back he's become a hideously old man and all he can say before dying of a heart attack is "It's eternity in there".

Which probably makes no sense to someone who hasn't experienced it.

Anyway, they tweak the system and discover that if those they're teleporting are put to sleep they survive the trip without any ill effects. While one family travel, the young son holds his breath while being administered an anasthetic in order to see what it'd be like staying awake, he ends up in the same state as the first traveler saying the same words, because only once you'd actually spent an eternity in the same place would you realise what such words meant and how you're pretty much in hell.

Take that in a psychedelic context and you can see how what a seemingly crazy acid casualty is babbling about is to him, a very real and logical problem and you never know, if you have a similar experience, might end up in the same place as him where everything he was going on about makes perfect sense.

That whole thing kind of bugs me, coming across something so absolutely profound or disturbing that it drives you insane.


Back on topic though, how legible was Syd? I heard he'd go around muttering about refridgerators and such, also heard a story once about where he was having a bad trip and was locked in a linen cupboard for awhile to calm down. Schizophrenic or not, something like that is sure to fuck you up a bit.

Oh yeah, not exactly psychosis but I'd say a possible linger. My second acid trip was a horrendous "I've done it once, it was cool so now I can do 240ug and have the time of my life" one. I remember that the only logical thought I could muster was "what time is it?" waiting to either die or for the trip to end. Now whenever I'm under pressure or in a stressful situation the first thought that pops to my mind, quite involuntarily, is "what time is it?"

 

[Ismene]

It's worth pointing out that the rate of schizophrenia nowadays is the same as it was 100 years ago. If psychedelics increased peoples chances of developing it then the rate of schizophrenia would have skyrocketed over the last 40 years.

 

[Icculus]

Ok, Syd Barrett lost his mind because he had underlying schizophrenia that was brought out by his heavy lsd use. during the UK LSD underground days, he was tripping nearly constantly. nobody knew anything about the possible long term effects of LSD, so they were eating like mad. especially Syd. I have read a lot on the guy, I know what I'm talking about. His symptoms matched those of schizophrenia way more than those of bi-polar, and he took drugs for schizophrenia shortly after returning to his mothers house to live and they helped him.

Syd would probably have developed his Schizophrenia later in life if he hadn't taken all the LSD. However, he may not have. Or, it may not have developed until he was 50 or 60. The main thing is that it was definitely brought out early by the LSD.

You can try to deny it all you want, keep telling yourself that LSD is harmless, but the fact is that LSD can bring out underlying mental disorders. People with schizophrenia develop it at different times. some people get it young, some people aren't affected until they're 40 or 50. the idea that all schizophrenics develop it at the same time is absolutely ridiculous. You're using some pretty strong words Ismene, considering you have no idea what you're talking about

It's worth pointing out that the rate of schizophrenia nowadays is the same as it was 100 years ago. If psychedelics increased peoples chances of developing it then the rate of schizophrenia would have skyrocketed over the last 40 years.

it doesn't increase you chances of getting it. some people have the genes for schizophrenia but never develop it in their lives. some people have schizophrenia from a young age. what LSD can do if someone has underlying potential for developing schizophrenia is bring out the illness sooner than they would've experienced it. it can also make some who has their schizophrenia under control lose control of it. LSD does not increase the amount of people with schizophrenic genes.

 

[Ismene]

Syd would probably have developed his Schizophrenia later in life if he hadn't taken all the LSD. However, he may not have. Or, it may not have developed until he was 50 or 60. The main thing is that it was definitely brought out early by the LSD.

No, you're talking bollocks there. The onset of schizophrenia is almost always in your teens and twenties. It's extremely unlikely for someone to develop schizophrenia when they are 60. Syd was in exactly the right age group to develop schizophrenia.

what LSD can do if someone has underlying potential for developing schizophrenia is bring out the illness sooner than they would've experienced it

This is a meaningless argument that can't be proved either way. If you take LSD you will develop schizophrenia 6 months earlier than if you didn't take it? How do you know you wern't going to develop schizophrenia at that time anyway? It's Talk to Frank anti-LSD propaganda. If it was true why hasn't there been an explosion in the number of young people developing schizophrenia at a younger age?

And incidentally Barratt wasn't taking LSD at anywhere near the rate John Lennon was.

 

[theWorldWithin]

Yeah because John Lennon was so "normal" lol.

Icculus its pointless to argue with people here over this issue. I have many times before and it always ends the same, they just flat out deny the dangers LSD offers. BTW, you do not need to be genetically predisposed to schizophrenia for LSD to fry your mind if you take enough. That is just common sense, you dont need studies to prove it. Its like asking if drinking beer will get you intoxicated, takes more for some less for others, but surely its going to happen with enough brews in your belly.

 

[Icculus]

Yeah because John Lennon was so "normal" lol.

Icculus its pointless to argue with people here over this issue. I have many times before and it always ends the same, they just flat out deny the dangers LSD offers. BTW, you do not need to be genetically predisposed to schizophrenia for LSD to fry your mind if you take enough. That is just common sense, you dont need studies to prove it. Its like asking if drinking beer will get you intoxicated, takes more for some less for others, but surely its going to happen with enough brews in your belly.

It's sad really. these people think they know all about these illnesses, when all they know is from what they learned off erowid and wikipedia. Just because most "anti-LSD propaganda" is bullshit doesn't mean that the substance has no dangers. I interned at a psychiatric ward for a year, i've dealt with lots of schizophrenics in therapy and learned a shit ton about them. The age of onset varies GREATLY. Sorry Ismene, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not saying LSD is dangerous or bad or anything, I love LSD. In a major way. But its just straight ignorant to think that all information on LSD gained from medical tests and studies is false just because LSD was so severely demonized by the government and society at large.

Its true about not needing to be genetically predisposed to go bat shit off LSD, but having those underlying conditions can make it much easier for you to lose it and more difficult for you to reach a "'full" recovery.

 

[tekkeN]

without all that acid Syd may have avoided collapse, and certainly not had such a breakdown.

 

[burn out]

The idea that Syd Barratt problems were caused by LSD is complete and utter fucking horseshit.

Syd Barratt was schizophrenic. He developed schizophrenia at the age when you develop schizophrenia, just like every other schizophrenic does. If he had never taken LSD in his life he would have developed schizophrenia at exactly the same time.

People blame it on the acid because it sounds more romantic than saying "He was mentally ill". John Lennon took more LSD than Syd Barratt could ever dream of and never had the slightest problem.

LOL, i don't understand why people keep pointing to john lennon as example of how harmless LSD is, as if john lennon were some epitome of mental health.

One night, after a few joints, a bit of LSD, we were sitting around at Kenwood playing tapes when John suddenly said: ’Pete, I think I’m Jesus Christ.’ ’You what?’ I said. ’I’m Jesus Christ. I’m back again.’ ’Oh yeah,’ I said. ’What are you going to do about it?’ ’I’ve got to tell the world who I am.’ ’They’ll kill you.’ ’That can’t be helped,’ said John. ’How old was Jesus when they killed him?’ ’I reckon about 32.’ ’Then I’ve got at least four years to go,’ said John. ’First thing tomorrow morning, we’ll go into Apple and tell the others.’ “

Next morning, Pete contacted Apple to arrange an emergency board meeting. All four Beatles turned up, plus Neil Aspinall (once the Beatles’ roadie, later Apple’s managing director) and Derek Taylor, their press officer. “Right,“ said John, sitting behind his desk. “I’ve something very important to tell you all. I am...Jesus Christ. I have come back again. This is my thing.“

The Beatles looked rather stunned, but said nothing. “It was totally surreal,“ says Pete. “But nobody cross-examined him. No plans were made to announce the Messiah’s arrival. There was a bit of muttering, then silence, till somebody suggested the meeting was adjourned for lunch. “In the restaurant over lunch a man came up to John and said: ’Really nice to meet you, how are you?’ ’Actually,’ said John, ’I’m Jesus Christ.’ ’Oh, really,’ said the man. ’Well, I liked your last record.’

http://articles.absoluteelsewhere.ne...hn_davies.html


so you consider belieiving that you're jesus christ and calling an emergency board meeting to announce it to your band members the next day as "never having the slightest problem"?

 

[burn out]

It's worth pointing out that the rate of schizophrenia nowadays is the same as it was 100 years ago. If psychedelics increased peoples chances of developing it then the rate of schizophrenia would have skyrocketed over the last 40 years.

correlation does not equal causation. there are many possible ways in which the rate of schizophrenia could remain the same despite the addition of an added risk factor. for example, something else may have occurred during the last 100 years that reduced the risk of schizophrenia thus counter acting the affect of psychedelics. furthermore, i believe psychedelics have the potential to benefit peoples mental health as well as harm it. so perhaps for every person who got schizophrenia from taking too much lsd, another person avoided schizophrenia through insights gained from lsd. in addition, compared to the overall population, the rate of psychedelic drug use is very low. the rate of frequent or heavy use is substantially lower. and the rate of people who get schizophrenia from abusing psychedelics is lower still. therefore, i could argue that even if psychedelics did cause shizophrenia, the rate most definitely would not have skyrocketed considering the relatively small amount of people who abuse psychedelics. the difference could easily be statistically insignificant, especially considering all of the confounding factors which could have occured during the past 100 years, as i pointed out earlier.

 

[theWorldWithin]

^nice post, very true

 

[Bardeaux]

So- because he wrote unconventional music and lived a detached lifestyle, he was insane? That would be societies overll impression I guess....maybe he found out the truth- detachment and lving in the present- and just said fuck yall to the dark pit of humanity and kept painting and gardening.

I write oddish songs and keep away from large swathes of society, but I am not insnae- this is how I choose to be. I like to think Syd Barret chose his life personally. People often mention how sad he would have felt to see Pink Floyd peak and have no involvemnt, but what if just didn't want to? Not could't, but chose not to have that life. His sister said something along the lines of 'The world wants something from Syd, but he just won't give it'.... I bet you he was happy in his final post-Floyd years. To me, Dave Gilmour has some sad sad eyes.

Well, there is alot more to the story than stated in my post. Countless artists have pushed the boundries of music,literature,visual art and escaped into obscurity whom I wouldnt consider insane.

 

[Phredom]

LSD can infact excaberate underlying mental conditions.
that was half the thrill in trying it ..
Also to say all mental disorders come out to people around the same time, is a truly false statement.

Syd had a mental disorder by definition, if that offends you I specifically placed "by definition" in there.

- bc all the doc's are out to get us right? heh.

To not take LSD or any other psychedelic drug responsibly, in my eyes, is like turning your back on a crook with a knife. but theres always going to be a % of risk.

 

[Ismene]

It's sad really. these people think they know all about these illnesses, when all they know is from what they learned off erowid and wikipedia. Just because most "anti-LSD propaganda" is bullshit doesn't mean that the substance has no dangers. .

No-one is saying it has no dangers. They are saying that taking LSD did not cause Syd Barratt to have mental illness.

 

[Ismene]

so you consider belieiving that you're jesus christ and calling an emergency board meeting to announce it to your band members the next day as "never having the slightest problem"?

It's peculiar behaviour but it's not something that caused him any problems is it. He was a still a multi-millionaire turning out some of the greatest songs in the history of music at this time remember. It might have caused him a problem if he'd called a meeting of the worlds press to announce it.

As Lennon said in 1980 "I took LSD thousands of times and never had a flashback or any problem at all. I'm not telling people to take it but I am saying that all the stuff the government says it does to you is bullshit".

 

[Ismene]

. and the rate of people who get schizophrenia from abusing psychedelics is lower still. .

Do you really think you can "get" schizophrenia from abusing psychedelics?

correlation does not equal causation

True, but this argument works against you. Perhaps people vulnerable to schizophrenia are the same kind of people who are attracted to drugs. So correlation of drug use and schizophrenia does not mean drug use causes schizophrenia.

 

[Ismene]

BTW, you do not need to be genetically predisposed to schizophrenia for LSD to fry your mind if you take enough. That is just common sense, you dont need studies to prove it. Its like asking if drinking beer will get you intoxicated, takes more for some less for others, but surely its going to happen with enough brews in your belly.

Nah, that's bollocks. For a start what does "fry your mind" mean? Are you saying if you take LSD often it makes you mentally ill? There's certainly fuck-all evidence to support that. Indeed all the evidence points towards the exact opposite - LSD helps improve peoples mental state. Just ask Cary Grant.

 

[burn out]

It's peculiar behaviour but it's not something that caused him any problems is it. He was a still a multi-millionaire turning out some of the greatest songs in the history of music at this time remember. It might have caused him a problem if he'd called a meeting of the worlds press to announce it.

As Lennon said in 1980 "I took LSD thousands of times and never had a flashback or any problem at all. I'm not telling people to take it but I am saying that all the stuff the government says it does to you is bullshit".

i consider believing that you are jesus christ a problem in of itself, unless of course you're actually jesus christ.