Immigration discussion

[arrall]

absolutely ridiculous!

perhaps it should be illegal for women to wear headphones in public and illegal for them to not make eye contact with, or smile at, a man?

alasdair

I’m really not surprised to see rapey rhetoric coming from a guy named Schutzstaffel…

 

[alasdairm]

^ that's not fair man.

-=SS=- has said on a few occasions that his handle has nothing to do with the german paramilitary organization. let's take him at his word?

alasdair

 

[mal3volent]

Also quite a stretch to call it rapey rhetoric. When you resort to these tactics you are essentially conceding that you have no way to counter their points with logic.

 

[-=SS=-]

I’m really not surprised to see rapey rhetoric coming from a guy named Schutzstaffel…

And this is exactly why you got points and why you got banned from CEPs. You're a total shit-stirring douche.

Women have a very different daily social experience than men, that's something a lot of us fail to recognize

perhaps it should be illegal for women to wear headphones in public and illegal for them to not make eye contact with, or smile at, a man?

Us women go through alot. When I'm out for a walk i say hi to everyone but I'm in my 40's and was raised in a small town.
Sometimes saying hi to the wrong guy could get you followed as some men take it as flirting.

There are obvious examples we can all pull from that make us feel unsafe - but as a man I am, by default, not expecting unsafety. There's a toolbox that women have to use when parking their car on a dimly lit street, that I never even have to consider.

I'm talking broad daylight in public, not some off the track location in a context that would clearly be felt to be anxiety inducing.

My point is you can't have it both ways. Women can't make complaints about the social intelligence of younger men, lack of pursuit or persistence, when the wider standard amongst the ladies is to shut the door on interactions that would give those younger men the chances to learn in the first place. I get that there are some unsavoury characters around, but that goes for men as well.. there's plenty of douchebags looking to start fights or whatever.

Like, fine, if women want to have it the way outlined above that's their choice.. but they then can't turn around and complain about the downstream consequences of that. You're projecting blame on to all men when it wasn't all men that were the problem - I'm not convinced this is the actual logic either, I think a lot of younger women just resent men because they've been conditioned that way.. it's something I felt and saw in my younger days too, no doubt it is worse now.

You really get a feel for this whole dynamic when you do go abroad and compare the social dynamics. There is some amiss in the West, that is just how it is. But of course we can't actually hold that dialogue in the West because women are protected from all potential criticism.

 

[arrall]

My point is you can't have it both ways. Women can't make complaints about the social intelligence of younger men, lack of pursuit or persistence, when the wider standard amongst the ladies is to shut the door on interactions that would give those younger men the chances to learn in the first place. I get that there are some unsavoury characters around, but that goes for men as well.. there's plenty of douchebags looking to start fights or whatever.

Why is the onus on women to interact with these men just because they do not wish to be sexually harassed or assaulted?
I think the entire point is that they DON’T want to interact with them….

To quote one of my favourite British rappers with a couple lines that epitomize the issue,
“
A 50 year old says "Nice tits" to a woman of 24
She tells him "Fuck off"
He responds "You can't say anything anymore"
“

 

[Jen X]

You would be surprised how many women have been sexually assaulted.
You make it sound like we should talk to every strange man no matter how uncomfortable we feel.
The girl who didn't say hi back was probably raped the week before. You don't know.

 

[arrall]

Also quite a stretch to call it rapey rhetoric. When you resort to these tactics you are essentially conceding that you have no way to counter their points with logic.

It is fundamentally rapey rhetoric to blame women for being sexually harassed just because they do not wish to interact with predatory young men.

It echoes Jordan Peterson’s calls for enforced monogamy and mandatory girlfriends, or the kinda thing you would see in the TikTok feed of alleged sex trafficker Andrew Tate.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I insist on right to glare strangers in hostile manner in public and I don't give a damn about peoples reference frames.

I am not either convinced that it is productive to approach this as "mens and womens responsibilities as monolith"-situation.

 

[arrall]

You would be surprised how many women have been sexually assaulted.
You make it sound like we should talk to every strange man no matter how uncomfortable we feel.
The girl who didn't say hi back was probably raped the week before. You don't know.

This exactly.
When I was 14, I probably would have agreed with SS.
Then I made friends with some girls, listened to their stories, and grew the fuck up.

You aren’t entitled to anything from anyone, female or male or non-binary or otherwise. That goes for everyone.

 

[alasdairm]

You would be surprised how many women have been sexually assaulted.
You make it sound like we should talk to every strange man no matter how uncomfortable we feel.
The girl who didn't say hi back was probably raped the week before. You don't know.

indeed.

I'm talking broad daylight in public, not some off the track location in a context that would clearly be felt to be anxiety inducing.

maybe they're just sick, fed up of reading online that some men consider them beasts in yoga pants who won't cook for them?

ymmv.

alasdair

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

(rederring to what Arrall said) I had that kind of approach until like 20 years old or smth.

 

[arrall]

-=SS=- has said on a few occasions that his handle has nothing to do with the german paramilitary organization. let's take him at his word?

If it stands for something else, I presume that SS has an explanation for what that something else is that they are willing to share?

 

[mal3volent]

I think it's possible to respect peoples autonomy and boundaries while at the same time not demonizing all men or assuming the worst about them. I've certainly had my fair share of bad experiences but I try not to let that make me cynical of everyone. I'm not a female though so there are fewer/different hurdles to overcome.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Folks that are immigrating, much like folks living in homelessness - struggle with surviving without a basic need met. It contributes to the development antisocial/pathological behavior patterns that are good for survival (stealing, self-defensiveness, paranoia/suspiciousness, deception) but terrible for adapting to a broader social contract (working for a living, waiting for payment, trust, openness, social acceptance and affiliation)

Yes, arriving to a new world often involves being homeless and/or dependent upon the charity of the host nation or it's citizens. What is the best way to address that? Bring in more when that host nation is already overloaded and unable to tend to it's own citizens, much less the recent immigrants? Or to throttle back on admissions and seek to balance the influx with what can be supported and how?

My father in US started a haulage with 400 odd company trucks and 200 od owner operators. Immigrants push up the birth rate and work hard. Im proud to hold US AND BRITISH citizenship and would die for both because of the opportunity and the freedoms to women US to practise our faith and prosper. Look at any of the charts we are near top of the charts in average house hold income home ownership and college graduates

Kudos to you and your family. Thank you for both 'doing it the right way' and becoming one with your host nations. There are truly valuable immigrants, and not just the hihgly skilled scientists but everyday citizens if they are given the chance. They do exist.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

The problem is that there has been an unspoken shift in 'the game',
...
You can see the issue just by walking about. I see it everyday. Women either have headphones on or are head down in their mobile phone. It's like trying to get blood from a stone if you smile at them or just say 'Hello'. Many will just keep their gaze fixed straight ahead, as if you don't even exist lmao.. which is ridiculous, because it takes more energy to ignore someone than just to acknowledge their existence.
...
Something has changed with younger women, that is just a demonstrable fact. Not all of them naturally, but the majority. Personally I don't care that much from a dating standpoint or whatever, but just from a basic human being standpoint.. like come on, don't be an arsehole.. if someone acknowledged your existence the least you can do is smile back. There's just this combative, stuck-up attitude that pervades their aura.

I'd argue it isn't just younger women. Society is evolving every day. It affects males and females. How many 'men' are still living in their parents basement off mom and dad whilst in their 30's? How many 'men' walk around with earbuds in and eyes down offering at most a mumbled reply when greeted with 'Hello'? Technology, politics which leads to laws, social norms get bent and twisted = all of it is evolving, changing how younger citizens interact with others and the world around them. They will adapt to procreate, or not. But it's everyone, not just one group.

=SS=- has said on a few occasions that his handle has nothing to do with the german paramilitary organization. let's take him at his word?

Just to chime in supporting Ali's words. SS' moniker has nothing to do with Germans, but harkens back to his earlier name before he changed it.

You aren’t entitled to anything from anyone, female or male or non-binary or otherwise. That goes for everyone.

QFT. At a minimum, society expected respect for others until they proved they didn't deserve it. Now, even that has eroded to the point of you must earn the respect first. Nothing is a given.

 

[mal3volent]

You aren’t entitled to anything from anyone, female or male or non-binary or otherwise. That goes for everyone.

Does this include things like the usage of neopronouns or other types of socially compelled speech?

 

[alasdairm]

If it stands for something else, I presume that SS has an explanation for what that something else is that they are willing to share?

he's under no obligation to do that. he says it's not. let's take that at face value and move on?

alasdair

 

[yubacity]

Yes, arriving to a new world often involves being homeless and/or dependent upon the charity of the host nation or it's citizens. What is the best way to address that? Bring in more when that host nation is already overloaded and unable to tend to it's own citizens, much less the recent immigrants? Or to throttle back on admissions and seek to balance the influx with what can be supported and how?



Kudos to you and your family. Thank you for both 'doing it the right way' and becoming one with your host nations. There are truly valuable immigrants, and not just the hihgly skilled scientists but everyday citizens if they are given the chance. They do exist.

Thank u to my two nations Britain and we were allowed to prosper live in peace and the progressive policies that dont hold its people back .
The West lately seems to have been not as proud ofbots achievements which a shame .
Can a unlimited number be allowed no each host nation should have a choice to debate these things without their views being called racist but yo define immigrants as freeloaders is also bad .

 

[sHR00m]

Why is the onus on women to interact with these men just because they do not wish to be sexually harassed or assaulted?
I think the entire point is that they DON’T want to interact with them….

To quote one of my favourite British rappers with a couple lines that epitomize the issue,
“
A 50 year old says "Nice tits" to a woman of 24
She tells him "Fuck off"
He responds "You can't say anything anymore"
“

To be fair, nobody has talked about any kind of dubious behavior here. It was about maintaining eye contact.

 

[tryptakid]

If it stands for something else, I presume that SS has an explanation for what that something else is that they are willing to share?

Regardless of what it means, I can speak to @-=SS=- 's character and say that even if it is because of the german paramilitary org he's a good egg in my book.

I'd be a hypocrite otherwise, given that Joy Division is a favorite band of mine.