Opioids Is it possible to use opiates responsibly?

[washingtonbound]

If you consider kratom an opiate (is an opioid, technically... but..) I think is doable, for me, in +4 years of use I've never went higher than 15grams per day, and most time I've used 6-9gpd, which I think it's a regular and acceptable pattern (which daily could lead to dependence, but, at least in my case, no health problems of any case).
For me this has been sustainable, now I'm in a taper, will hit 5.5 today, and tomorrow I'll start the last part of the taper, next weekend will have a very light withdrawal, completely manageable with black seed oil, kava, mucuna pruriens and ashwagandha (perhaps some other stuff like yohimbe or kola nut, but that's the basic).
I guess if you're strict with yourself you can get that with other light substances like codeine, not sure. A friend of mine uses light doses of tramadol without much trouble. I wouldn't do but surely it's not impossible.

I think kratom is mistakenly thought to be more benign than it really is. It's definitely not as bad as a lot of stuff and some might argue it's no worse than coffee, but to that effect I'd point out that most people just have a cup or two to wake up, not several grams over the course of the day. When I hung around this kratom bar a lot, I noticed some people would have flat out ugly withdrawal effects if they stopped drinking it. I never was a habitual user of it myself, but nevertheless wanted to avoid getting locked in that cycle. I imagine this may sound hypocritical from someone asking about responsible opiate use but just wanted to give my two cents.

 

[jasperkent]

I feel like kratom alters my personality more than other opioids, most likely due to its complex mechanism of action.

Could you please elaborate?

(see my earlier post)

 

[spammie nurse]

Well psychedelic use and opiate use are quite different things. My disorder, whether it be schizoaffective or bipolar, was one hundred percent induced by excessive psychedelic use during college. I pushed the envelope and paid the price for it, and have inherited a nightmare as a result. But in respects to opiate use, I don't use them in the same way I used psychedelics, and obviously you're not going to be catapulted into left field from a couple percocet. In the post you're referring to there, I was responding to someone who said they planned on dropping a tab of acid despite having had psychotic episodes. I brought up ketamine because I absolutely did have a problem with that but always thought "I'm in control here." It is the only substance I've had a major struggle with aside from maybe weed. Anyway, as mentioned I feel opiates are a different ball game. Risky perhaps, but not nearly as much so as getting into psychedelics again.

Please don't think I was judging you. I was thinking of drug interactions and the fact that many of us have " cross over" usage issues ( the tendency to misuse substances is not limited to the class of drug). Like I said, be safe. Shalom.

 

[Neuroborean]

Could you elaborate?

The only thing I've noticed is that if I take a little too much I get irritable for about 30 minutes.
Otherwise, I've noticed no behavioral changes and nobody I'm around has said anything to that effect.

Yeah,
probably negrogesic will write before me, but in anycase...
kratom has also adrenergic and serotonin actions, even anti-psychotic like effects on dopamine receptors so it works as so many things at the same time, that's the reason why it feels so... wholesome, and it helps so many people with different problems.
In my case if I took kratom I feel like a kratom underground feeling, most of the day, even when it's coming down or it wore down after 6 hours you still have some kind of kratom afterglow. With that underground feeling things are less... dramatic, or they are dramatic only for a brief period of time, I can get angry, but probably the angry feeling won't last more than 20 minutes max.
I also feel less, like I'm less sensitive to things, once you get used to it (tolerance) it kind of becomes the "new normal" so you don't really realize how potent events are without kratom,
it's like, when I stay 1 month without kratom and totally sober life feels almost like if I had a micro-dose of lsd or something like that.. but well, I think I'm OVER-sensitive in general, so kratom helps me being more "normal", like most people is, so I don't need to struggle with that sensitivity in my everyday life.

 

[Stassi202]

Well I was referring to Percocet which is obviously different than heroin. I am a bit on the fence on how well I can control my use hence my posting on the forum. I presume I can use it with caution however I know how easy it is to slip.

Usually this is exactly how it all starts ..with the pain pills. The problem with this is tolerance and expense. Eventually your tolerance will increase and you will need more percs to achieve your desired result. This means spending more money and in
my experience, usually pills are $1 a milligram. One Perc30 = $30. That’s 3 bags of heroin at $10/each. Just sayin

 

[DylanSins]

I'd define what you mean by "responsible" first. Opiates are amazing recreational drugs in the short term and, this may seem anecdotal, but I've never met anyone whos been able to responsibly use opiates in the long term. Opiates are extremely addictive both, physically and mentally and they should be used VERY moderately.

The high is just too good, and that 15mg buzz will soon do nothing for you in a matter of weeks. Just be careful because once you're hooked on that warm feeling it's a bitch kick.

 

[ikirsten]

It's possible. I use once every 2 weeks. sometimes every 3-4 weeks. Been like that for over two years. Using once a week is too much, eventually you start getting mental withdrawals on off days. These mental withdrawals (for me) are not seen with once every 2 weeks (at least not yet).
What I use depends on supply. Sometimes codeine or tramadol (both less than 100mg) or unwashed poppy seed tea (1-2 cups) which is usually stronger than my codeine and tramadol dose.

 

[Foreigner]

Yes it's possible. I used dilaudid and morphine for 6 month stints at low doses without increasing my dose at all. But I was using them for actual pain, not recreationally.

I still had withdrawals though. Mostly body zaps and mini-seizures when I was trying to go to sleep.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Yes if you can stand feeling like shit all the rest of the time that you aren't using them.

I've gone through severe abuse and nowdays I take them in very small doses for a ketamine blown out bladder thar hurts permanently.

I basically alway feel like I'm in a minor withdrawal. So yea I'm using them responsibly but it ls not fun whatsoever

 

[ItsclearlyFake]

Yes if you can stand feeling like shit all the rest of the time that you aren't using them.

I've gone through severe abuse and nowdays I take them in very small doses for a ketamine blown out bladder thar hurts permanently.

I basically alway feel like I'm in a minor withdrawal. So yea I'm using them responsibly but it ls not fun whatsoever

The mind can also play a role in making those sober times 'feel like shit' though.

Sometimes I wonder 'Am I having minor withdrawals? Why my body feels not completely nice? Maybe I haven't totally healed?' Then I remember before even taking my first opiate I already had an inert feeling of distisfaction , uneasiness and subtle anxiety In my body. Opiates just act as a 'reference' experience of what true easiness and pleasentness in the body feels like, so when you quit you don't even remember how meh normal sober usual humans feel, and you think you are still in some sort of 'minor withdrawal'. But that's just because your mind is remembering how an opiate high feels like and its comparing it with how is feeling right now.

Having said that, I haven't abused severely opiates, I 'only' had a daily kratom habit for 3 years and other opiates physical dependence I have kept them at bay with proper tolerance breaks. So by now means I am saying my case and experience can be applied to you . But I´m pointing it out becase I can totally identify with your thinking and I´ve come to the conclusion that at least in my experience, it's all just mind games.

it's like, when I stay 1 month without kratom and totally sober life feels almost like if I had a micro-dose of lsd or something like that.. but well, I think I'm OVER-sensitive in general, so kratom helps me being more "normal", like most people is, so I don't need to struggle with that sensitivity in my everyday life.

Oh man I remember when I would try to quit kratom and be like 6 days straight sober and realize 'oh holy shit my life its really fucking boring and empty, guess what I was chasing a high 3 times a day and didn't realize I was in a fictional cloud with this kratom thing' . Quite sneaky because the kratom cloud might not be as apparent and obvious as other opiates but my god...what an awakening when you quit and you realize life is not satisfactory just watching tv as it was with kratom

 

[LucidSDreamr]

The mind can also play a role in making those sober times 'feel like shit' though.

Sometimes I wonder 'Am I having minor withdrawals? Why my body feels not completely nice? Maybe I haven't totally healed?' Then I remember before even taking my first opiate I already had an inert feeling of distisfaction , uneasiness and subtle anxiety In my body. Opiates just act as a 'reference' experience of what true easiness and pleasentness in the body feels like, so when you quit you don't even remember how meh normal sober usual humans feel, and you think you are still in some sort of 'minor withdrawal'. But that's just because your mind is remembering how an opiate high feels like and its comparing it with how is feeling right now.

Having said that, I haven't abused severely opiates, I 'only' had a daily kratom habit for 3 years and other opiates physical dependence I have kept them at bay with proper tolerance breaks. So by now means I am saying my case and experience can be applied to you . But I´m pointing it out becase I can totally identify with your thinking and I´ve come to the conclusion that at least in my experience, it's all just mind games.


O

Youre really right that it's somewhat in your head. A natural hit of dopamine from a fun activity, sex, excercize, good social interaction or being immersed in work will eliminate that minor withdrawl feeling we are talking about.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Big question is it possible to take opiates responsibly indefinitely or sooner or later everyone overdo them in one way or another.

 

[paranoid android]

I am basically a former addict turned every other day user so i am not physically dependant on opiates now or actually addicted. I have been addicted to everything from oxycodone to fentanyl though and have lots of track marks to prove it. However i have always had a script and have never come close to having a od or actually any real problem besides wd. So i guess you could say ive always used responsible just now im not addicted as i only use morphine every other day usually thohgh i do sometimes binge for a few days.

I should point out that i also take it for chronic pai so quitting really isnt a option for me.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Unfortunately I can’t say that for myself even when using opiates every day, sometimes with days between and just sometimes for days in a row I still get some WD’s if I stop them completely.

I also use them for chronic pain and until I don’t cure that pain actually I wouldn’t mind opium or oxy every day but I think I’ll be better of using weed that I find useful for pain and K and pregabaline and few other things to deal with pain and sticking to opiates just when really necessary. I’m well aware that poly-drug use can spiral out of control in a worse way than opiates alone but sticking to psychedelics, dissos and weed never got me in problems like opiates and/or stimulants did.

 

[Myeaaa]

I wouldnt lump drug use itself into responsible and irresponsible categories. Work on becoming a responsible person that knows intimately the tradeoffs associated with drug use and you'll be fine.

Nothing wrong with the thought process here, but reframing it is useful to the end i am assuming you are shooting for.

 

[paranoid android]

Are you the same bl member I had this discussion with a few months ago? I can't beleieve that every other day usage doesn't have you dependent because you still have active levels of Morphine 48 hours after a dose.

What dose do you take in mg?

So if you stop for a week you have zero symptoms? Like you can even sleep normally if you stop for a week?

You're lucky man. 2 X a week and I develop a dependency

I might be and usually 60mg's but now i have stopped iving it as im worried about new looking tracks. I can explain the old ones. So now i take it orally. And ya when i stop i et zero symptoms i can sleep when my ptsd isnt fucking with me to bad

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I think a better question is "even if you use opiates responsibly is it fun and worth it?"

These drugs feel good but they aren't mdma. They simply aren't worth any of the risks and baggage they come with

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I might be and usually 60mg's but now i have stopped iving it as im worried about new looking tracks. I can explain the old ones. So now i take it orally. And ya when i stop i et zero symptoms i can sleep when my ptsd isnt fucking with me to bad

Do you do any other meds? I know there'd genetic predisposition as to how some ppl metabolize opiates or some shit (there are even lab tests to categorize you according to this)

I'm curious if you've ever had these tests or if some other med helps you l.

Are you a very athletic person or something?

 

[Delmonte421]

I sort of use opioids responsibility. I have experience multiple very severe opioid addictions and will not go back to being hooked on opioids unless I have cancer, etc.

However I will say that while I'm mostly able to avoid getting hooked these days, I would absolutely be a happier and healthier person if I didn't play with opioids at all. A person like me, who has spend a significant portion of their life hopelessly dependent on massive amounts of opioids, has a forever altered opioid system that is very quick to manifest withdrawal symptoms from even occasional use.

Even a single strong dose of opioids can make me feel off for a while while my endogenous opioid system regains its function (which was never well functioning to begin with -- I feel like even in my childhood I had symptoms resembling opioid withdrawal simply from having a underactive endogenous opioid system, which is why I instantly fell in love with opioids the very first time I tried them).

So the answer is, yes you can, use them responsibly, with some luck and practice. But you probably won't be a happier person because of it.

I agree with you. When I was younger I could eat oxy and take days off now problem like it was nothing. But 20 years ,after and my life has had some rough times and now I have to have oxy everyday or I get sick. I tried to quit for a couple days today and went to work on kratom and took some kratom in the early morning when I first start withdrawing and it helped and I proudly made it through the day unlike the other day where I made a little thread about it. So I pushed today cause I didn't have a choose and took krstom @ 4am just to feel ok and again @11am while at work cause I started feeling not so hot. I had a super stressful day and I have a bunch of oxy but I am trying to manage myself and lower my dose but I cracked when I got home from work. But tomorrow I will again try to use kratom and slowly lower my dose. this all started from those fake blues and now I have to spend the money to make sure I get real oxy as those blues are VERY bad news and I don't do H or fent, I have that line I won't cross. My plan was the next three days do no oxy what so ever and I lasted one work day haha but I will try again this weekend when I don't have to be on my A game at work.

 

[paranoid android]

Do you do any other meds? I know there'd genetic predisposition as to how some ppl metabolize opiates or some shit (there are even lab tests to categorize you according to this)

I'm curious if you've ever had these tests or if some other med helps you l.

Are you a very athletic person or something?

I am on clonazepam, zopiclone, gabapentin which i rarely use, zyprexa and salbutamol. I seem to metabolize some opiates rather quickly and i have in the past used huge doses of opiates without even nodding. I got so bad with dilaudid that i was shooting 3 18mg hydromorph contins every 4 hours just to catch a short rush and not be sick.

As far as being athletic i have been lifting weights everyday for the past month and a half to hopefully keep the weight off from the zyprexa i had to switch to. Im at a good weight now and wanna keep it that way i just need to get some fat off my gut