What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[vash445]

Why are they different colours?

I had clearish crystals (pic not included)...

It was washed with ether (that's what was pulled on the brown mdma. Brown junk on WHITE/CLEARISH STUFF

THE WHITE IS after an ether wash

The purple is what pulled the borohydrides out and caused the white to go darker/purple .. answer impurties

 

[unodelacosa]

I had clearish crystals (pic not included)...

It was washed with ether (that's what was pulled on the brown mdma. Brown junk on WHITE/CLEARISH STUFF

THE WHITE IS after an ether wash

The purple is what pulled the borohydrides out and caused the white to go darker/purple .. answer impurties

Sodium cyanoborohydride might indeed be the cause of the blue/purple coloration. Cyano = blue, after all, and borohydrides are common reducing agents.

However, when you talk about a water recrystallization, unless something is physically being removed, there's not much this is doing to improve the product, is there? In one sense, crystal formation is itself a purification process, and coupled with a ice-cold, anhydrous acetone rinse, this is somewhat effective, I suppose. Is this what you mean?

Personally, I like to recrystallize MDMA from boiling isopropyl alcohol and anhydrous acetone in a two-solvent recrystallization. The product hits like a flurry of multi-colored nystagmus, pupils like black vinyl surrounded by white powder in the DJ booth… jaw loose, no chance of completing sentences, lol…

 

[vash445]

Sodium cyanoborohydride might indeed be the cause of the blue/purple coloration. Cyano = blue, after all, and borohydrides are common reducing agents.

However, when you talk about a water recrystallization, unless something is physically being removed, there's not much this is doing to improve the product, is there? In one sense, crystal formation is itself a purification process, and coupled with a ice-cold, anhydrous acetone rinse, this is somewhat effective, I suppose. Is this what you mean?

Personally, I like to recrystallize MDMA from boiling isopropyl alcohol and anhydrous acetone in a two-solvent recrystallization. The product hits like a flurry of multi-colored nystagmus, pupils like black vinyl surrounded by white powder in the DJ booth… jaw loose, no chance of completing sentences, lol…

cyano mean cyanide in this instance The reagent is often purchased, although it can be prepared easily. One method involves combining sodium cyanide and borane. Another route entails treating sodium borohydride with mercury(II) cyanide

. And yes some iso/acetone has been used after some evap after I got a solid batch of crystals to speed this up. the acetone using to wash the crystals and thus go back in and evap some more

unless something is physically being removed, there's not much this is doing to improve the product, is there

That the point it's a minor impurity that is not, washable with ether, washable with acetone. Evades possibly even most recrystallizations if you have such bulk you end up with brown MDMA thats meh or even white stuff thats meh

 

[ketquest]

I wish I could go back in time to take the pills from the early 2000s... Every single pill or MD powder I tried in the last 15 years were complete garbage. It feels like the roll is coming up, but never really "gets there" and you are only left with eyes rolling like slot machines, grinding teeth and feeling like you are doped with something, but no love, no euphoria. Oh and of course a bad hangover. You only experience the bad side of the drugs without having experienced the good, not a good trade.
Very disappointing.

 

[Xpacta86]

Unfortunately after trying at least 15 different pills and a couple of crystal batches (most of them from NL) in the last couple of years I can confirm nothing can compare with old school pills in terms of love and euphoria. Only Qdance pills came a bit close but definitely not on pair. Shame.

 

[G_Chem]

I’ll say the past couple years MDMA quality has dropped in my area a bit. We still get good euphoric feeling product but it’s been awhile since I’ve gotten stuff that really wowed me. Maybe I’m just getting old??

I’d say 2015-16 was the peak for me so far in my MDMA using career. Mid 00’s had good stuff but it was just so much harder to find/more expensive.

That’s one thing I don’t miss pre-2010. The price. While I can’t say numbers, the price was about double back then. It was also much harder to find in general. It felt like I’d always find it and have no money to buy the stupid expensive pills.

-GC

 

[vash445]

Unfortunately after trying at least 15 different pills and a couple of crystal batches (most of them from NL) in the last couple of years I can confirm nothing can compare with old school pills in terms of love and euphoria. Only Qdance pills came a bit close but definitely not on pair. Shame.

There is something really unique with a PROPERLY pressed bean with MDMA. Sadly making MDMA and Pressing it is honestly just as hard reading how it's ment to be done.

 

[vash445]

Update 130mg had me FLOORED when before it didnt

 

[G_Chem]

Update 130mg had me FLOORED when before it didnt

Yea idk if I ever mentioned the bioassays from the methanol re-X product that looked like what you had. I felt the same, although the product I used to do it wasn’t bad either.

But 130mg had me literally laid out belly flat on the ground for about 30min. I straight up melted down into a puddle for a minute.

-GC

 

[vash445]

Yea idk if I ever mentioned the bioassays from the methanol re-X product that looked like what you had. I felt the same, although the product I used to do it wasn’t bad either.

But 130mg had me literally laid out belly flat on the ground for about 30min. I straight up melted down into a puddle for a minute.

-GC

No this was 100% meh product. I'm still not done with recrystalization but I at least wanted to see if there was any improvement.

I got intense eye wiggles etc the look on some of the darker crystals reminded me what I use to get in 06/05 before the drought

 

[Didgital]

The reagent is often purchased, although it can be prepared easily. One method involves combining sodium cyanide and borane. Another route entails treating sodium borohydride with mercury(II) cyanide

Errr despite this being on wiki i think this is pretty misleading. Every known method uses either very toxic reagents, inert atmospheres, and anhydrous conditions.
I would not recommend attempting this without serious knowledge or chemical equipment.

 

[Didgital]

Sodium cyanoborohydride might indeed be the cause of the blue/purple coloration. Cyano = blue, after all, and borohydrides are common reducing agents

Hmmm. So I was interested and was able to track down a little bit of info on the etymology and use of prefix cyan in chemistry. FYI sodium cyanoborohydride is typically a white crystal and has no relationship to the blue/purple whatsoever.

Stolen from another website:
"The immediate source of its use in science is French cyanogène, the name given to the compound radical by Gay-Lussac. He called it that because it first had been obtained by heating the dye pigment powder known as Prussian blue."

Here is the chemical formula for it, Feᴵᴵᴵ₄[Feᴵᴵ(CN)₆]₃

Prussian blue while it does have a carbon nitrogen bond, the blue is not related to that particular bond.

"The intense blue color of Prussian blue is associated with the energy of the transfer of electrons from Fe(II) to Fe(III). Many such mixed-valence compounds absorb certain wavelengths of visible light resulting from intervalence charge transfer. In this case, orange-red light around 680 nanometers in wavelength is absorbed, and the reflected light appears blue as a result."

Anyway, this is not confirmed, but I did just hear from a friend that all of this super dark purple MDMA that's going around the USA right now was supposedly smuggled into the country in wine, which I do know, has been done. I was thinking it was intentionally dyed, but I really don't know. Also from another friend, the super dark purple MDMA was lab tested and found to be only 84% MDMA HCL, so yeah, its not very pure.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Regioisomers, and isobaric compounds of MDMA are created via alternative cooking methods, crappy purification, or on purpose because it's easier or cheaper.

Several of these compounds are active, mimic the effects of MDMA to a lesser degree, and without specific processes and procedures in addition to GCMS, including HPLC, and in some cases, deriving daughter compounds using perfluoro-acylation, which causes a different molecular breakdown pattern so ions are different weight. In addition to special temperature and time for HPLC,--

The cheap mass spectrometry or GCMS for pill testing is just going to return that it's all MDMA.

There's a reason that the government decided to make sure they had policies and procedures in place to identify them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Also from another friend, the super dark purple MDMA was lab tested and found to be only 84% MDMA HCL, so yeah, its not very pure.

That's actually pretty pure, it's only 16% of a pill is binder.

You need binder to hold MDMA together, unless you have a very specialized press and then it's going to be a tiny baby aspirin size.

Binder that's pretty good and it's a small pill. Aspirin and MDMA are pretty close in density, meaning 1.4 g/cm3 for aspirin and 1.1 for MDMA.

Go look at a 325 mg aspirin. Probably about 84% aspirin.

Now cut that 325 mg aspirin in half and you have 160 mg pill, 84% would make it 130 mg of MDMA which is exactly where you want to be if it's real MDMA.

Look how small that pill is.

 

[Delmonte421]

Sodium cyanoborohydride might indeed be the cause of the blue/purple coloration. Cyano = blue, after all, and borohydrides are common reducing agents.

However, when you talk about a water recrystallization, unless something is physically being removed, there's not much this is doing to improve the product, is there? In one sense, crystal formation is itself a purification process, and coupled with a ice-cold, anhydrous acetone rinse, this is somewhat effective, I suppose. Is this what you mean?

Personally, I like to recrystallize MDMA from boiling isopropyl alcohol and anhydrous acetone in a two-solvent recrystallization. The product hits like a flurry of multi-colored nystagmus, pupils like black vinyl surrounded by white powder in the DJ booth… jaw loose, no chance of completing sentences, lol…

why anhydrous acetone but not anhydrous IPA? seems counterproductive

 

[G_Chem]

Hmmm. So I was interested and was able to track down a little bit of info on the etymology and use of prefix cyan in chemistry. FYI sodium cyanoborohydride is typically a white crystal and has no relationship to the blue/purple whatsoever.

Stolen from another website:
"The immediate source of its use in science is French cyanogène, the name given to the compound radical by Gay-Lussac. He called it that because it first had been obtained by heating the dye pigment powder known as Prussian blue."

Here is the chemical formula for it, Feᴵᴵᴵ₄[Feᴵᴵ(CN)₆]₃

Prussian blue while it does have a carbon nitrogen bond, the blue is not related to that particular bond.

"The intense blue color of Prussian blue is associated with the energy of the transfer of electrons from Fe(II) to Fe(III). Many such mixed-valence compounds absorb certain wavelengths of visible light resulting from intervalence charge transfer. In this case, orange-red light around 680 nanometers in wavelength is absorbed, and the reflected light appears blue as a result."

Anyway, this is not confirmed, but I did just hear from a friend that all of this super dark purple MDMA that's going around the USA right now was supposedly smuggled into the country in wine, which I do know, has been done. I was thinking it was intentionally dyed, but I really don't know. Also from another friend, the super dark purple MDMA was lab tested and found to be only 84% MDMA HCL, so yeah, its not very pure.

My brother actually found a crystal of something like you describe on the floor of a venue recently. It’s a very dark purple but the crystal structure seems decently defined.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

I had clearish crystals (pic not included)...

It was washed with ether (that's what was pulled on the brown mdma. Brown junk on WHITE/CLEARISH STUFF

THE WHITE IS after an ether wash

The purple is what pulled the borohydrides out and caused the white to go darker/purple .. answer impurties

Well I would blame potassium permanganate.

Potassium permanganate is a purple crystal. It is also the agent that is used to turn piperine into piperanol.

Because piperine isn't controlled and piperanol is.

There's a great paper on the web that identifies exactly what route cooks used to create their MDMA based on what organic impurities are left behind or what catalysts are left behind like purple potassium permanganate.

It could be residue from (an) iodine reaction(s) that didn't get cleaned out.

Remember iodine is purple.

 

[G_Chem]

Seeing some old faces…

I doubt it’s iodine, although a crude Al/Hg amalgam can be had with easy made mercuric iodide that would likely have leftover iodine present.

It’s amazing the plethora of routes one can use to get MDMA.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

Seeing some old faces…

I doubt it’s iodine, although a crude Al/Hg amalgam can be had with easy made mercuric iodide that would likely have leftover iodine present.

It’s amazing the plethora of routes one can use to get MDMA.

-GC

Yeah I haven't been on in a while. Imagine my feeling of vindication when the papers on regioisomers and the papers detailing government efforts to create a process to determine how to specifically identify MDMA because multiple structural isomers and isobaric compounds, including many methcathinones, are either byproducts, purposely created compounds, or precursors that can't be the distinguished by regular GC/MS or even regular HPLC.

18 compounds that they identified.

I updated that thread and put some references for people to go look at.

I linked to a graduate paper from Auburn University that actually details how you synthesize all of the structural isomers and isobaric compounds for MDMA.

How about that?

 

[vash445]

Hmmm. So I was interested and was able to track down a little bit of info on the etymology and use of prefix cyan in chemistry. FYI sodium cyanoborohydride is typically a white crystal and has no relationship to the blue/purple whatsoever.

Stolen from another website:
"The immediate source of its use in science is French cyanogène, the name given to the compound radical by Gay-Lussac. He called it that because it first had been obtained by heating the dye pigment powder known as Prussian blue."

Here is the chemical formula for it, Feᴵᴵᴵ₄[Feᴵᴵ(CN)₆]₃

Prussian blue while it does have a carbon nitrogen bond, the blue is not related to that particular bond.

"The intense blue color of Prussian blue is associated with the energy of the transfer of electrons from Fe(II) to Fe(III). Many such mixed-valence compounds absorb certain wavelengths of visible light resulting from intervalence charge transfer. In this case, orange-red light around 680 nanometers in wavelength is absorbed, and the reflected light appears blue as a result."

Anyway, this is not confirmed, but I did just hear from a friend that all of this super dark purple MDMA that's going around the USA right now was supposedly smuggled into the country in wine, which I do know, has been done. I was thinking it was intentionally dyed, but I really don't know. Also from another friend, the super dark purple MDMA was lab tested and found to be only 84% MDMA HCL, so yeah, its not very pure.

impossible at least according to my observations because my white MDMA turned purple after recrystalization using at mininum 2oz... the exact same dark purple... and getting a more darker defined crystal pattern Usually the Mid end collecting of the crystals got me that dark purple crystals if I waitied to long to collect. Towards the end it's more brown and came out more like the "Dutch cola" we are use to....

The purple MDMA comes from canada as is, They seem to be the producing it as I do not see it coming from any other area in big quantities and there are 2-3 vendors selling it cheap enough. The MDMA is def is still wet on the inside if you break it up you can smell the acetone.. It def is NOT dye or smuggled in wine. it appears after recrystallization that much is certain. Anyways Ive asked on the hive what causes the purple MDMA and I was informed by 2 dfferent people told me it was borohydrie impurities that's the best I got... maybe they are wrong, but it defiantly is impurties and not a dye that appears after recrystalion.

ALL I know is I had white MDMA that turned purple (you could see the white in the picture a few comments ahead) , Bought this dark purple and saw it was coming out similar to what I was recrystallizing and my local peeps have been encountering KG ammount when broken up they smell the acetone still but clear up over time cuz it is filled with like 5-8% solvent . Some rocks even become clear once they have been broken down from the 1KG Chunks they had if given enough time.