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Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread

Soso78 said:
About which bit? He was a drug dealer, armed robber, he threatened pregnant woman after invading her home.
u agree on that bit right?
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He was still a human being that didn't deserve to be murdered in broad daylight in the middle of the street by (mainly) one man who was supposed to protect him.
 
Soso78 said:
About which bit? He was a drug dealer, armed robber, he threatened pregnant woman after invading her home.
u agree on that bit right?
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it was theft, not armed robbery.
the woman wasn't pregnant.

then again you don't care about facts.
 
mal3volent said:
it was theft, not armed robbery.
the woman wasn't pregnant.

then again you don't care about facts.
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Yes there were a few theft charges.
Also armed robbery
Agravated robbery with a firearm
Scummy drug dealer.
fuck him
 
TheLoveBandit said:
How is the statement different from "We can't make an addict quit, they have to want to quit first"?
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I'm not sure they can be equally compared, but in terms of the addict:

Isn't a good counselor's or therapist's job to help those addicts who may not even be aware they want to quit?

Likewise, isn't there some inherent assumptions, judgement, mixed in with some ignorance that Black people don't want to be successful in that statement? Should the president of the United States not set the tone and be the role model? Someone has to lead, no?
 
Deru said:
Isn't a good counselor's or therapist's job to help those addicts who may not even be aware they want to quit?
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Isn't a good parent's job to help those kids who may not even be aware they need to be responsible/cleanroom/getjob/basically_improve?

isn't a good leader's job to help those who are unemployed or in an imporverished state (regardless of color) to have an opportunity to improve their state?

In all such cases, one cannot make another person do anything they choose not to do. Ignorance of one's needs or opportunities can be addressed, but motivation to pursue change lies with the individual first and foremost.

Likewise, isn't there some inherent assumptions, judgement, mixed in with some ignorance that Black people don't want to be successful in that statement? Should the president of the United States not set the tone and be the role model? Someone has to lead, no?
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Taken as a gross generalization of race, yes, it is ignorant to make such a statement. I'll give that the statement of 'black people' is ignorant, generalizing, and stereotyping without giving the specificity to those I believe he is actually speaking about.

Taken as a statement that there is opportunity, or that the leader is working to create opportunities, remains independent of the individual choosing to pursue them. Taken as a gross generalization of those unwilling to want change and invest the effort for it, the statement stands (again, regardless of race). The onus of change, in all things, starts with individual responsibility, ownership, and initiative; THEN the opportunities (or lack thereof) can be assessed. The statement "black people must want to be successful in order for [the] policies to help them" doesn't say
  • ALL blacks do not want success
  • NO blacks can achieve success
  • NO blacks are achieving success
  • Anything about non-blacks
It states that black people (any people for that matter, but the discussion appears centered on BLM protestors) must want to be successful as the first step. I find that inarguable.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
Isn't a good parent's job to help those kids who may not even be aware they need to be responsible/cleanroom/getjob/basically_improve?
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Absolutely, although not everyone is fortunate enough to have good parents. And when good parents or role models aren’t in the picture, where do children look? Would a solid, strong leader be a possibility here?

TheLoveBandit said:
isn't a good leader's job to help those who are unemployed or in an imporverished state (regardless of color) to have an opportunity to improve their state?
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Among various other things I mentioned earlier, whether Trump likes it or not, his obsession with not alienating his base is causing massive rifts and divides in this country right now. That sure seems to me like his need for selfish, personal gain far outweighs his concern for this country, as a whole. I know that can be argued for all politicians, in general, it’s just this particular instance seems to be doing quite a bit of damage to our country.

TheLoveBandit said:
I find that inarguable.
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If the comment came from a completely non-biased source, I’d tend to agree with you more here.

Considering it came from Trump’s son-in-law regarding Trump, I can’t help but use context to apply when interpreting the comment.
 
BLM is single most powerful political movement in the US right now. It’s a shame it’s being used by the neo liberal establishment to manipulate and attack their perceived enemies. I’m sure the extremists of the organization are being given the biggest stage while it’s more sober members are ignored.
 
cduggles said:
I wonder why Jared skipped those poor white people, and telling them that they should just try harder.
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wut?

Coming back to the tweet shared here, it has to be noted the tweet is from Alcindor who is known to hate all things Trump. Recognize the bias of sources, from both sides.


I've gone back to read the article she linked on Bloomberg (met my one free article for the day!), and it's about an interview Kushner did on Fox&Friends but doesn't link to that nor give much depth of the interview beyond a few quotes. Here's the balance of what Alcindor was pointing to:

President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner said Black people must “want to be successful” in order for the administration’s policies to help them.

“One thing we’ve seen in a lot of the Black community, which is mostly Democrat, is that President Trump’s policies are the policies that can help people break out of the problems that they’re complaining about,” Kushner said Monday on “Fox & Friends.” “But he can’t want them to be successful more than they want to be successful.”
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There's no reference to what question, if any, was asked of Kushner to set this up. All we have is the opening where he is specifically speaking of black communities. I would take this to answer cd's question above. Moreover, the article goes on to mention Kushner has criticized BLM as divisive rather than uniting the country. A debate could be had on that point, but it should be fair to say there are many on both sides, indicating he's not alone in seeing BLM this way.

The article also goes at length to quote both Kushner and McEnany on what Trump has done for the black community ("a law he signed reducing prison sentences for nonviolent offenders, increased spending for historically Black colleges and universities and new tax benefits for investors in low-income communities"). It expands upon this by sharing how Trump's team believes they are making inroads with the black community with these efforts, indicating a perceived gain of popularity in that voting block:

Trump lost among Black voters by about 82 percentage points in 2016 but has closed the gap in support to about 71 points this year, according to an analysis of polling data FiveThirtyEight.com published last week. He’s improved particularly with Black men, cutting his disadvantage to 57 percentage points from 72 percentage points.
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We'll see if this bears out in the election, but every indication I've seen (note, conservative sources, could be pumping sunshine) point to a higher level of support from the black community (and Latino, and gay, and other traditional Democrat bases), and largely unemotional response on Biden with strong dislike for Harris given their political track records with the black community.

There's even a quote from a Dem congressman:

“Jared Kushner was born into wealth and he married into wealth. He’s never had to ‘want’ success, let alone earn it. All he’s had to do is be in the right place at the right time,” Representative Gerry Connolly, a Virginia Democrat, tweeted. “This is a breathtaking insult to the hardworking people who actually make this country great.”
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The quote itself would be funny if it weren't so off the mark. First, he's attacking the speaker, not the topic. Second, Kushner was speaking directly to the portion of American society that isn't pursuing the success available to them (specifically BLM and the outcry for 'gimme'), NOT those who are actually 'hardworking' and making the country great. It's as if this person had a mic in their face and had to make a noise. Completely off base and misses the point made. Well done, sir!


BUT, in the end, this is a tweet from Alcindor trying to selectively quote and create outrage; misleading the public as to what Kushner's message was. The article doesn't do much better, unless you consider the growing support for Trump based on his policies and action, to be highlighting Kushner and Trump as racist and demeaning to black people. I don't think that's working.
 
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So a group of whites went to join the protests in phlli and were told by all the black protesters to fuck off. I was hoping they were going to get smashed up the bunch of pussies
 
I haven’t read any reports, as of yet, about this group of White people getting told off.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
How is the statement different from "We can't make an addict quit, they have to want to quit first"?
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Because it doesn't fit the victim role that dems and lefties like black people to remain in. :LOL:

Easier to just blame white Trump supporters for everything than hold anyone accountable and start talking about real problems in black society.
 
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