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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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I blame our media. Every 2 minutes they are running a new scare story. Haven't you wondered why homeless junkies are not getting sick?

What makes you think they aren't? It's probably just that it's harder for a homeless person to get to a testing location, because of being uninsured/not having access to transportation.

Unless they had a really bad case that sent them to the ER, they'd have no idea and probably just think it was a cold or flu. Or suspect that they have/had it without knowing for sure.
 
What makes you think they aren't? It's probably just that it's harder for a homeless person to get to a testing location, because of being uninsured/not having access to transportation.

Unless they had a really bad case that sent them to the ER, they'd have no idea and probably just think it was a cold or flu. Or suspect that they have/had it without knowing for sure.

I'm in Canada where the highest junkie would get proper health care and we don't have high numbers in the homeless population and that's where it should be. I'm not downing downing anyone they just don't have the best hygiene.
I don't trust the government for good reason and do question their motives because it's never our best interest
 
Your ignorance is outstanding.

And what qualities you as an expert? A moderator on a drug forum? what education? Where do you get your facts?
The homeless in my country are not getting sick like you would think by the media. You not knowing that is your ignorance
 
Where do you get your facts about that? What qualifies you as an expert? Being a member of a drug forum?

Do you know a handful of junkies and none of them has gotten sick? If so, that doesn't mean anything for the total population, though at least it's a piece of evidence you personally have to swing your opinion. If not, then how do you know, other than some stuff you read somewhere?

I know a number of people who have gotten it, including my mom's friend who was healthy and then developed all the symptoms of severe covid and died on a ventilator. Some BLers have gotten it, too, including Captain.Heroin, and also CFC (who still hasn't fully gotten his sense of taste and smell back). I believe people I know over any media source of any kind. My cousin is a doctor and worked on the front lines when it was really bad in his city, and could not emphasize to us enough how much different things were than normal, and how severe it was for some people. I believe my cousin over the opinions of a bunch of people who have decided it must be a media hoax.

I totally agree that governments, some anyway, have used this to try to gain more power, but that doesn't mean the whole thing is fake.
 
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Where do you get your facts about that? Do you know a handful of junkies and none of them has gotten sick? If so, that doesn't mean anything for the total population. If not, then how do you know, other than some stuff you read somewhere?

No i know people that run and work at 4 shelters/homesand I guess they talk to others and no there hasn't been an outbreak or higher numbers with our homeless and they are generally not social distancing
 
I expanded my post. I also know people who work in the medical industry, my cousin works in a major US city as a doctor.

I'm in Canada. We had 600ish new cases in 14 million people in my province . Nothing compared to the USA
 
Oh it's for real alright when it first got to NYC it was really scary. I actually ODed and came to in a Brooklyn Hospital getting hit with Narcan. Everyone was wearing hazmat Suits and sound of so many machines from the ventilators. This was right during the peak of cases in the city and needless to say I got bugged and took off outta the hospital ASAP. Someone I know died of complications with the virus and I know number of people with milder cases. By the look of fear in the doctor's and nurse's faces I would say it's for real.
 
I'm in Canada where the highest junkie would get proper health care and we don't have high numbers in the homeless population and that's where it should be. I'm not downing downing anyone they just don't have the best hygiene.

I remember very early on this specific issue being discussed in the medical community and it was theorized that homeless communities were likely to develop herd immunity quickly and that is likely a contributing component of what you are experiencing there in Canada.
 
I never said I was in denial. I work with native youth so I'm involved with the shelter system. I'm just going my what i hear and know first hand. Doesn't make me ignorant or a virus denier . We have a population countrywide that a state like California has and we have big gaps between populations. Of course our numbers are lower. Canadians also seem to listen to the experts even if we don't agree on everything. In the usa you have people who think the earth is still flat and trump is an immunologist.

The neanderthal dna is interesting though. I googled it and was surprised so many had traces of it still.
 
I never said I was in denial. I work with native youth so I'm involved with the shelter system. I'm just going my what i hear and know first hand. Doesn't make me ignorant or a virus denier . We have a population countrywide that a state like California has and we have big gaps between populations. Of course our numbers are lower. Canadians also seem to listen to the experts even if we don't agree on everything. In the usa you have people who think the earth is still flat and trump is an immunologist.

The neanderthal dna is interesting though. I googled it and was surprised so many had traces of it still.
Donald Trump is walking around without a mask in the White House barely able to breathe since yesterday.




The TMZ link has the video.
 
Trump reminds me of Putin minus the grosse callander's . He doesn't want to appear weak but we all know he is, he's 74 and out of shape.
Sad thing is his followers won't wear a mask. He should be setting the example. I don't care for Trudeau but at least he is always wearing a mask and not saying it's fake
 
Oh, well yeah Canada is doing quite well. I thought you were suggesting covid isn't real.

Oh heck no , I'm not dumb or a scientist so i will listen to the experts on this. We have had a couple protests against mask but the general consensus is listen to our health officials.
As much as I dislike my prime minister he does all his interviews wearing a mask. Setting an example like trump was supposed to do.
 
Peru has become the first country, other than the microstate San Marino, to hit 1 recorded COVID-19 death per 1,000 population.
 


Guy asks for clarification about COVID camps. Gets a non-answer. Asks again and has his mic cut.

The Premier has been actively dodging my questions since July. Today was just another example of the new status quo in Queen’s Park, no response. After this exchange I’m not even sure if the Premier and his Cabinet know what's going on regarding the Federal government considering the expansion of isolation/quarantine facilities from coast to coast. The language in the RFI is overly broad and ambiguous, and we ought to have clarification on the purpose of these isolation/quarantine facilities. I asked clear and precise questions about the Federal government's tendering for “isolation/quarantine camps” in Ontario. Where will they be, how many will there be, and how many people will be housed? The Government House Leader suggests these are for “international travellers”, however the RFP says “public health and other related federal requirements associated with the COVID-19 pandemic response.” My question on the purpose was cut short and once again the government refused to give an answer. Why won't they answer? It seems to me they aren't even aware of these proposals.

 
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As we inch closer to a COVID-19 vaccine, the anti-vaxx movement is mobilizing. Apparently a lot of their tactics have been used historically.

The article below has cool pics like the one below in it of old anti-vaxx propaganda. Link to article at bottom of text.
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COVID-19 anti-vaxxers use the same arguments from 135 years ago

As we get closer to an effective vaccinefor COVID-19, we should expect to see a renewed push of disinformation and vocal resistance from the anti-vaccination movement. Over the past year, seemingly endless conspiracy theories and misinformation campaigns have gained traction online amidst rising COVID-19 infection rates worldwide. Looking at the history of these movements can help us understand why they can be so effective at capturing a popular following.

As a historian of medicine, it’s become clear from researching the history of vaccines that those who promote anti-vaccination consistently use a standard set of strategies. Although it can be hard to see patterns of argument in the modern context, looking back at a historical instance of epidemic and misinformation provides a useful case study for revealing today’s recurring anti-vaccination strategies.

One popular pamphlet published in 1885 during the smallpox epidemic in Montréal is a great example. Over a century later, we have the benefit of living in a world that has eradicated smallpox using a vaccine. Yet in the past, smallpox vaccination was hotly contested, despite the evidence in favour of its effectiveness.

Published by a leading anti-vaccinationist, Dr. Alexander M. Ross, this pamphlet was widely circulated during the smallpox epidemic of 1885 in Montréal, as public health officials were seeking to increase vaccination coverage.

Ross seized on the opportunity of increased health measures to gain authority, notoriety and personal fame. He painted himself the hero of his own story, the “only doctor; who had dared to doubt the fetish” of vaccination. Despite this, it was discovered that he had been recently vaccinated during the epidemic, a fact that was gleefully reported by the major newspapers at the time.

His pamphlet serves as a prime illustration of the strategies used by anti-vaccinationists — both then and now. These arguments are not new and have changed little over time. Learning to recognize their repackaging in modern form can help with effectively combating their power.

Minimize the threat of a disease

Ross and his anti-vaccination associates were quick to dismiss the threat of smallpox. Despite mortality rates between 30 and 40 per cent, and the extreme contagiousness of the disease, it was common for anti-vaccinationists to claim that smallpox was only a minor threat to a population.

Ross decried the “senseless panic” caused by health officials and physicians over the epidemic, claiming that smallpox was not, in fact, epidemic, and that the city had “very few cases.” Official numbers for the epidemic would eventually rise to 9,600 reported cases with 3,234 deaths — nearly two per cent of Montréal’s population at the time. An additional 10,000 cases were recorded in the province of Québec, but historians believe the actual numbers were likely much higher. These numbers and the story of this epidemic have been narrated by historian Michael Bliss in his non-fiction account, Plague: A Story of Smallpox in Montreal.

The minimization of threat is a common tactic in contemporary debates as well. Many who promote the anti-vaccination agenda claim vaccines to be more dangerous than the disease.

Claim vaccine causes illness, is ineffective or both

Although modern arguments have focused on the false claim that vaccines cause autism, historic arguments were much more varied in their allegations of infections from the smallpox vaccine. The anti-vaccinationists of the past claimed that vaccination caused a full spectrum of diseases, from smallpox itself to syphilis, typhoid, tuberculosis, cholera and “blood-poisoning.”

These claims were not always groundless, but their risks were consistently exaggerated. Cases had been known to occur of secondary disease transmission due to poor practice. Some physicians used arm-to-arm vaccination — meaning they would use the same instrument to vaccinate a whole line of people — or used vaccine prepared from a human source rather than a bovine source. The lack of sterile cleaning between operations or the use of vaccine prepared from an infected person could lead to rare cases of secondary disease transmissions.

The discovery of such transmissions (years earlier) sparked some of the first regulations around vaccine preparation and administration, and generated a keen concern within the medical community about vaccine safety — a concern which has continued to be a mainstay of vaccine production to this day.

Declare vaccination is part of a larger conspiracy

Ross’s pamphlet was adamant about the role of both the press and the medical profession in stoking fears over infection as part of a “mad” campaign for gaining money. Much like today, epidemics created opportunities for both employment and research in the medical field. Yet this employment was painted as an unethical exploitation of the poor, worth “one million pounds sterling” to the profession, rather than an effort in combating the suffering and death of thousands.

Additionally, public health measures were depicted as an assault on personal rights and an overreach of government power. “Talk no longer of Russian Tyranny,” Ross declared, for there was “none so formidable” as the city health officials. His arguments are still echoed over a century later in the current pandemic, as we see continued support behind the belief in a conspiracy to limit freedoms(among other, more extreme, conspiracy theories).

Use alternative authorities that legitimize your argument

The final section of Ross’ Pamphlet includes a long list of testimonials against vaccination from ‘the most eminent physicians in Europe.’

Last but not least is an appeal to authorities that help legitimize the anti-vaccination argument. The modern anti-vaxxer movement has an abundance of these, led by Andrew Wakefield, the now discredited former physician who originally published the fraudulent studylinking the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine to autism.

But the anti-vaccination movement has had a long tradition of promoting the words of “experts” who support their narrative. In the 19th century, vaccination debates often brought in a similar small circle of medical men who spoke against vaccination, calling it a “filthy” and “evil” practice. Although their arguments were refuted by many in the medical community, they gained a lasting mantle of prestige amongst anti-vaccinationists as the authoritative voices that offered the “proof” that was needed.

This is not an exhaustive list of anti-vaccination strategies — either historical or contemporary. There have always been individuals who capitalize on medical crises to push their own agenda, and in the modern age of digital media, strategies of misinformation have evolved and expanded. Much like Ross, the leaders of these movements gain social power by painting themselves as lone crusaders.

As we get closer to a worldwide distribution of COVID-19 vaccine, we can expect to see more and more such crusaders publishing arguments against vaccination. Breaking down patterns of arguments seen repeatedly in the past can provide a useful lesson for combating them in the future.
 
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