No mixed signals the goverments of the 70s britian not a goverment of empire and so not hold us back but the goverment not the general population who a minority of who did try to hold us back . How can i blame what the british empire did on the goverment now
Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread
- Thread starter PriestTheyCalledHim
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mal3volent
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So what is the statute of limitations for something like genocide or slavery? There has to be some defined period of time.
Fuck knows it hard enough to get the british to accept the wrongs of colonialism. The massacre of the punjabis in amritsar was handled by a witness to it he swore revenge and years later shot the man in charge of giving go-ahead dead .
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
More peaceful protestors.
Well, at least they were actually peaceful. For now.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
That's not how this place works. We don't allow staff to ban folks without justification (violation of site rules, which you aren't doing). Please try to recognize that while staff post and interact with a staff title and the related duties and responsibilities, they are also still members. His dialogue with you has been that of another fellow member trying to understand your views while trying to express his own. There's no part of 'authority' in play here, please don't take it as such.
As to the rest of your statement, you're absolutely correct. None of us know what you have been through, as you don't know our experiences. Sharing them helps us all better understand one another, and I for one am very appreciative of your sharing your experiences. It's yet another facet of the world of which I have no direct knowledge so your words are enlightening not only about you and your mindset, but how the world works as you (and your family) have been passing through it. Thank you.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
He's giving examples of racism which his family has experienced, and continues to experience. It isn't exactly what's in America, but it is what has existed and continues to exist in India and UK. It's a valid experience of racism, which you and I don't have footing to challenge. At least, I know I don't, as I have no such experience or close contacts with experience. But it remains a positive example of racism and overcoming it. If not fully overcoming it, then coping and NOT being held down by it. It is a real and valid example, which proves the point that even systemic racism can be dealt with if not eradicated. A lesson that surely applies anywhere systemic racism is at play.
To bring it home to your point about 'white on black' systemic racism in America, there are a lot of examples of NOT being held back. Barack, Rice, Powell, Oprah, (insert any of pro sports / Hollywood / music superstars), etc) for just a start - note, some of these same people claim there is NO WAY to succeed, despite they themselves being a direct contradiction to that statement. Success exists. Is it the exception, as any 'system' will have? Or is it widespread enough to invalidate the claim of 'systemic racism'? I'm not sure we can say.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Mate, you are way out of bounds in attempting to compare what you know to what you don't know. Educate yourself a bit on what he's described, moreso on the history of the British Empire and it's dealings in India and upon the local populace as well as the different groups within India. Until you have an appreciation for that history, you cannot legitimately be making the comparisons. They don't line up.
You want to compare a century of slavery to centuries of such subjugation without the same title. You compare individuals shot down by bad cops to a policy and practice of genocide. You compare Jim Crow laws to treat people differently based on racism to what was done to the different Indian groups/tribes/castes (I'm unsure of the proper term). Slaves were valuable, they could be sold for that value. Brits would shoot waste the life of an Indian nearly on par with Germans laying waste to Jews (how many can we kill with one bullet to save ammo?) but without the malice, instead done with a lack of valuing that life. You miss the mark wholesale when trying to make this comparison based on your ignorance. Not a knock on you - people don't know things until they are taught, so there's no real wrong in 'not knowing'. It just isn't a good play to make assertions when you 'dont know'.
Other than still speaking from ignorance, this is muddled by mixing time frames. Likely not your fault, but more a misunderstanding in reading his writings and not grasping what happened when.
However, as he clarified, historically Britain was horrible to the indigenous worldwide. That is a historical gov't to be blamed. Once the Empire faded, there was still (and is still) the systemic racism remaining in India which pits locals against one another (likely rooted in pre-Empire history, tbh). Then his references to 70's and 80's systemic racism in UK are not enforced by laws per se, but societal acceptance. It was (is?) acceptable to harass certain portions of the population, with law enforcement looking the other way or even acting against the victims = sound familiar at all?
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
This is a common view I hear among Hispanics in this area of the US. There is a cultural inclusiveness to help one another and pass on success, but there is no sense of being held back or oppressed. Perhaps language, education, or other factors make them not selected for certain opportunities. Generally not race, but practical factors. And in response, they go for the best they can achieve, and ensure their children get better education, better language skills = better opportunities. They pass on that success.
Moreover, they do so without seeking gov't assistance. They don't feel owed anything other than a fair chance.
I wish we heard this mindset from more people. Of all races and backgrounds.
To turn this back to the 'black American', they carry the additional grievance of 'slavery'. A real and factual oppression that happened here in America....over a century ago. Since then, the black populace have been granted freedom, the right to equal education and opportunities to the point of legal enforcement of reduced qualifications and quotas (Affirmative Action). They have managed to become land owners, then business owners, then millionaires and billionaires. And yet, there are those who still claim they are owed something. It's puzzling, when the black American has had these benefits and had an earlier headstart on utilizing them, and yet done less with it than Indians, Chinese, Koreans, or other races that have grown in population in America in more recent decades and found success, established cultures of improvement passed on through generations.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Recent ad regarding a candidate for a state position in Baltimore
Because black lives matter, except they haven't been taken care of in decades in that city alone.
Because black lives matter, except they haven't been taken care of in decades in that city alone.
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
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actually he did violate them, quite harshly. But I generously overlooked it. Guess you missed that part.
yes he was, and his point was that because he was able to push through that so should Black people now. Implying that institutionalized racism and police brutality that black people face today is somehow comparable to what he described, iirc, not being able to go to certain pubs and beings called names in school.
then I mentioned how black people have a exceptionally gruesome history in the US that sets them apart from all others besides the natives who we nearly exterminated. So he brought up some historical atrocities committed by Britain. I guess he got offended because he thought I was trying to diminish what his people have gone through when in fact all I'm doing is saying Indians in the US or UK are not getting murdered by police.
this all boils down to, should you blame the governments and countries that allowed these things to happen? First he said no, now he says well yeah, but not the ones running them right now. So I asked how long does a society have to hold their government accountable for things like slavery, genocide, etc? He said he didn't know.
It's all very interesting. You can sue a company that wronged you and even though it might be under new management or employing new workers, the lawsuit is still allowed to continue. You see, it wasn't just individuals within the US government that have to answer for its crimes...the government itself...the country itself...is still responsible.
I'm adequately educated on these things mate.
This all started from a single statement that he hasn't been held down by racism so blacks in the US shouldn't either. His personal experiences do not compare to the public execution George Floyd received, choked to death in agony for over 8 minutes begging for his life. Is that the reality for Indians in the UK right now?
I think it's shitty what he's had to go through, but don't come to me saying because you made it out ok that the people suffering here now should just shut up and trudge on. Guess we should just let that whole slavery and Jim Crow thing go, since it happened a long time ago.
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mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
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Wow.
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
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maybe after her failed run she can be a Fox News contributor . Perhaps go on a trolling tour of college campuses with Ben Shapiro ?
Few things mate I said the British government in power now can not be blamed for the atrocities of empire just like you can not blame the government in Germany for the holocaust. It would be good for the government of today to acknowledge that during the Raj in india the natives were treated as second class citizens and the wealth of India was stolen that will be enough. You the one that started with historical reasons why a group cannot succeed I just gave you my historical baggage. I already said in my original post that the treatment of black and brown by the police in the states is unacceptable. You did not like my comment that the best way is to be like immigrants who also come to the states potless and low down the table and work hard to thrive in any job they can get and educate their kids. I would pay more tax for the education of minorities and white Americans from poor backgrounds more one on one with teachers or assisiants after school tuition free breakfasts so kids can learn without being hungry in morning. The more educated a group is the bigger their voice but somehow thats the wrong thing to say . And I never said people should shut up and trudge along show me where I said that you just added that to make me seem a dick. I said work hard and educate their kids . Your the one that seems to think because of what has happened and is happening to African americans they should not bother trying to get out of poverty. No where in my post did i say shut up and trudge along. And for the record racism is not a few words in the school yard or no go pubs . Racism is much deeper than that it's the reactions the little digs the looks you get when out with your white wife dont belittle what we grew up with because im no a black american. You basically just dissmised my historical and recent racism because it not happen to a Black American .
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nuttynutskin
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But it's easier for BLM to make unreasonable demands and blame white people for everything than to actually address issues within the black community. 
Watch this to see the British treatment of us. Cheak from 4-minute mark I made a mistake when he speaks of forced Bengal famine it killed 4 million not the 3 million i thought. And that just one famine historians say that nearly 30 million people where starved to death deliberately in famines where vital food was sent to england
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i don't think that's accurate. at all.
maybe you missed, or maybe you are deliberately ignoring:
alasdair
Deru
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Just a friendly reminder,
All posts in here are not only governed by the BLUA, but also by the CEPS Forum Guidelines.
CEPS Forum Guidelines, #1:
"DON'T RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS - Lesson: If you are challenged by the opinion of someone else in a particular matter, go after the opinion and not the opponent. This is otherwise known as an ad hominem fallacy, that poor debaters use because they can't mount a proper response. We want to maintain respect for each other in this forum."
The text I have emboldened here is important. We want to encourage and cultivate meaningful discussion for everyone to feel free to share their thoughts and beliefs. It ultimately allows an overall, better forum for everyone if we all follow this process.
All posts in here are not only governed by the BLUA, but also by the CEPS Forum Guidelines.
CEPS Forum Guidelines, #1:
"DON'T RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS - Lesson: If you are challenged by the opinion of someone else in a particular matter, go after the opinion and not the opponent. This is otherwise known as an ad hominem fallacy, that poor debaters use because they can't mount a proper response. We want to maintain respect for each other in this forum."
The text I have emboldened here is important. We want to encourage and cultivate meaningful discussion for everyone to feel free to share their thoughts and beliefs. It ultimately allows an overall, better forum for everyone if we all follow this process.
nuttynutskin
Bluelighter
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- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 10,732
Because buying them would be supporting capitalism 
...
Otter Pops Faces Backlash for Retracting Offer to Donate Ice Pops to Portland Protesters
The tweet spawned the hashtag #boycottotterpops.
By Matthew Singer |
Published August 19 at 4:51 PM
Updated August 19 at 5:57 PM
Otter Pops, the classic children's snack brand, is being hit with calls for a boycott after walking back a statement of support for the Black Lives Matter movement and reneging on an offer to provide popsicles to protesters in Portland.
On Monday, Twitter user @PDXCarMedic—a disabled Air Force veteran who requested to be referred by his initials, D.C.—tweeted at the company, asking if it supports Black Lives Matter and would be willing to donate ice pops for him to hand out at the protests. D.C. regularly attends Portland's anti-police brutality demonstrations, distributing food, water and medical supplies to protesters.
"With how it's been the past week," he tells WW, "I decided to do lots of popsicles, too."
The Otter Pops account initially responded enthusiastically to the request: "We 100% do. Send us a DM and we will see how we can help!"
But the next morning, the account deleted the response and appeared to retract the statement, blaming it on a contracted social media "consultant."
"We regret that an individual consultant hired by Otter Pops recently commented on a social media post that appeared to align the brand with a political movement," read the tweet. "We apologize if anyone was offended by that comment, which was not representative of our brand."
The tweet was met with backlash from Black Lives Matter supporters and spawned the hashtag #boycottotterpops.
"When I get home from this beach trip. I'm gonna kick off my shoes. Turn on the AC. And throw a box of @OtterPops in the trash," read one response.
Another asked, "When does your boot flavor come out?"
D.C. had not responded to the original offer before the message was deleted, and had no further correspondence with representatives from Otter Pops. He believes the retraction was spurred by right-wing agitator Andy Ngo, who tweeted that the company was "offering to donate ice pops to the Portland antifa rioters." (Ngo later claimed that D.C. is part of "an antifa pop-up group" that gave out lacrosse sticks "so rioters could fight officers." D.C. says the sticks were meant for self-defense, so protesters could deflect tear gas canisters and other munitions.)
In a statement to WW, the company says its response "was not a reaction to complaints or tweets from outside parties, it was made because Otter Pops does not align with any political group or organization."
"Otter Pops supports the rights and freedoms granted to Americans," the company writes. "Our core mission is to serve children and families."
The company would not comment on whether the social media consultant was reprimanded or removed from their position.
D.C. says he's been the subject of harassment over the past two days, including death threats—"all because I wanted to give free Otter Pops," he says.
But he's already moving on: He recently reached out to Ben & Jerry's asking for ice cream donations.
www.wweek.com
...Otter Pops Faces Backlash for Retracting Offer to Donate Ice Pops to Portland Protesters
The tweet spawned the hashtag #boycottotterpops.
By Matthew Singer |
Published August 19 at 4:51 PM
Updated August 19 at 5:57 PM
Otter Pops, the classic children's snack brand, is being hit with calls for a boycott after walking back a statement of support for the Black Lives Matter movement and reneging on an offer to provide popsicles to protesters in Portland.
On Monday, Twitter user @PDXCarMedic—a disabled Air Force veteran who requested to be referred by his initials, D.C.—tweeted at the company, asking if it supports Black Lives Matter and would be willing to donate ice pops for him to hand out at the protests. D.C. regularly attends Portland's anti-police brutality demonstrations, distributing food, water and medical supplies to protesters.
"With how it's been the past week," he tells WW, "I decided to do lots of popsicles, too."
The Otter Pops account initially responded enthusiastically to the request: "We 100% do. Send us a DM and we will see how we can help!"
But the next morning, the account deleted the response and appeared to retract the statement, blaming it on a contracted social media "consultant."
"We regret that an individual consultant hired by Otter Pops recently commented on a social media post that appeared to align the brand with a political movement," read the tweet. "We apologize if anyone was offended by that comment, which was not representative of our brand."
The tweet was met with backlash from Black Lives Matter supporters and spawned the hashtag #boycottotterpops.
"When I get home from this beach trip. I'm gonna kick off my shoes. Turn on the AC. And throw a box of @OtterPops in the trash," read one response.
Another asked, "When does your boot flavor come out?"
D.C. had not responded to the original offer before the message was deleted, and had no further correspondence with representatives from Otter Pops. He believes the retraction was spurred by right-wing agitator Andy Ngo, who tweeted that the company was "offering to donate ice pops to the Portland antifa rioters." (Ngo later claimed that D.C. is part of "an antifa pop-up group" that gave out lacrosse sticks "so rioters could fight officers." D.C. says the sticks were meant for self-defense, so protesters could deflect tear gas canisters and other munitions.)
In a statement to WW, the company says its response "was not a reaction to complaints or tweets from outside parties, it was made because Otter Pops does not align with any political group or organization."
"Otter Pops supports the rights and freedoms granted to Americans," the company writes. "Our core mission is to serve children and families."
The company would not comment on whether the social media consultant was reprimanded or removed from their position.
D.C. says he's been the subject of harassment over the past two days, including death threats—"all because I wanted to give free Otter Pops," he says.
But he's already moving on: He recently reached out to Ben & Jerry's asking for ice cream donations.
Otter Pops Faces Backlash for Retracting Offer to Donate Ice Pops to Portland Protesters
Otter Pops, the classic children’s snack brand, is being hit with calls for a boycott after walking back a statement of support for the Black Lives Matter movement and reneging an offer to provide popsicles to protesters in Portland.
nuttynutskin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
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- 10,732
Violence mars Portland protests, frustrates Black community
by GILLIAN FLACCUS Associated Press
Friday, July 3rd 2020
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Protesters in this liberal, predominantly white city have taken to the streets peacefully every day for more than five weeks to decry police brutality, but violence by smaller groups is dividing the movement and drawing complaints that some white demonstrators are co-opting the moment.
As the Portland protests enter a second month, they have shifted on several nights from the city’s downtown core to a historically Black neighborhood in North Portland that’s already buckling under the effects of white gentrification and has the most to gain — or lose — from the outrage in the streets.
Late last week, some protesters barricaded the doors to a police precinct a half-block from Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and set fire to the building, which also houses Black-owned businesses, including an Ethiopian restaurant and a barber’s school. Two nights later, a potluck at a park in the heart of the Black community morphed into another violent clash with police, who unleashed tear gas to quell the crowd of several hundred people.
The change has angered and frustrated some in the Black community, who say a “white fringe element” is distracting from their message with senseless destruction in a city where nearly three-quarters of residents are white and less than 6% are Black.
Demonstrations elsewhere in the city have also grown increasingly violent. Early Friday, someone broke the windows of a federal courthouse and threw fireworks that started a fire inside the building.
One prominent Black leader wrote to Mayor Ted Wheeler and said some clashes had unfolded three blocks from his house. He said the problem was with “elements” that were “99% white” and did not represent the Black Lives Matter movement.
“It has nothing to do with helping Black people. These hoodlums are needlessly scaring neighbors and their children,” said Ron Herndon, who has fought for racial justice in Portland for four decades and led a school boycott in 1979 after the city closed predominantly Black schools. “At some point, enough is enough.”
Newly appointed Police Chief Chuck Lovell, who is Black, said the violence in North Portland was “offensive and hurtful” and has cost the city at least $6.2 million in overtime for its officers.
“People in that neighborhood were upset. That’s not something they’re going to tolerate ... and they came out and were very vocal,” Lovell said. “I think people sometimes look at the protest movement as one homogeneous group — and there’s definitely a segment here that is very violent.”
The tension over the protests comes amid increasing conflict within the movement itself. Rose City Justice, a coalition that for weeks galvanized thousands of people for peaceful marches and rallies every night, announced last week it will no longer do so after it was criticized, among other things, for sitting down with the police commissioner and mayor to discuss police reform.
The Rose City Justice marches and rallies attracted a diverse crowd of 10,000 people a night at one point. High school students marched arm-in-arm with the Portland Trail Blazers’ Damian Lillard across the Burnside Bridge, and people gathered along the Willamette River to listen to hours of music and speeches. Aerial photos of the crowds, which filled the massive bridge from end to end, made national headlines.
Jerome Polk has operated his business, J.P.’s Custom Framing, for 26 years from a building he shares with the North Precinct police offices that were set ablaze. As he carried supplies into his business on a recent day, char marks, graffiti and police tape were still visible outside the building, and half of Polk’s own windows had been boarded up as a precaution.
“I don’t know the motivation of why people do what they do,” he said. “I know when the damage is done, they blame that on what the movement is supposed to be. And that’s unfortunate and unfair.”
A few blocks away, Carl Baskin sat next to his drive-up car wash station and worried that the message of racial justice was being taken away from the Black community by “young white children.”
“This is where they’re losing the narrative. In the midst of all this other stuff, they’re not really showing anyone sitting down with the police, actually talking and getting some of this stuff made into laws,” Baskin said. “That’s the stuff we should be talking about.”
The sting is made even deeper by the fact that the North Portland neighborhood has, over the years, seen an exodus of Black families and businesses as white people have moved in. On a recent day, just a few blocks from boarded-up buildings and anti-police graffiti, white families with strollers walked past food carts selling sushi burritos as fliers advertising micro-greens fluttered in the wind.
“Get to know us and get to know the pain that we feel with gentrification in this neighborhood,” said Elaine Loving, who has lived in her family’s North Portland home for 59 years. “Now it’s mostly white folks, and they don’t even speak to us half the time — and that hurts.”
komonews.com
Who would've thought, maybe white anarchists don't actually know what's best for blacks? The bolded part makes me think what I've thought all along, that most of these Portland protesters aren't interested in working together to try to fix things, it's easier to smash.
by GILLIAN FLACCUS Associated Press
Friday, July 3rd 2020
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Protesters in this liberal, predominantly white city have taken to the streets peacefully every day for more than five weeks to decry police brutality, but violence by smaller groups is dividing the movement and drawing complaints that some white demonstrators are co-opting the moment.
As the Portland protests enter a second month, they have shifted on several nights from the city’s downtown core to a historically Black neighborhood in North Portland that’s already buckling under the effects of white gentrification and has the most to gain — or lose — from the outrage in the streets.
Late last week, some protesters barricaded the doors to a police precinct a half-block from Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and set fire to the building, which also houses Black-owned businesses, including an Ethiopian restaurant and a barber’s school. Two nights later, a potluck at a park in the heart of the Black community morphed into another violent clash with police, who unleashed tear gas to quell the crowd of several hundred people.
The change has angered and frustrated some in the Black community, who say a “white fringe element” is distracting from their message with senseless destruction in a city where nearly three-quarters of residents are white and less than 6% are Black.
Demonstrations elsewhere in the city have also grown increasingly violent. Early Friday, someone broke the windows of a federal courthouse and threw fireworks that started a fire inside the building.
One prominent Black leader wrote to Mayor Ted Wheeler and said some clashes had unfolded three blocks from his house. He said the problem was with “elements” that were “99% white” and did not represent the Black Lives Matter movement.
“It has nothing to do with helping Black people. These hoodlums are needlessly scaring neighbors and their children,” said Ron Herndon, who has fought for racial justice in Portland for four decades and led a school boycott in 1979 after the city closed predominantly Black schools. “At some point, enough is enough.”
Newly appointed Police Chief Chuck Lovell, who is Black, said the violence in North Portland was “offensive and hurtful” and has cost the city at least $6.2 million in overtime for its officers.
“People in that neighborhood were upset. That’s not something they’re going to tolerate ... and they came out and were very vocal,” Lovell said. “I think people sometimes look at the protest movement as one homogeneous group — and there’s definitely a segment here that is very violent.”
The tension over the protests comes amid increasing conflict within the movement itself. Rose City Justice, a coalition that for weeks galvanized thousands of people for peaceful marches and rallies every night, announced last week it will no longer do so after it was criticized, among other things, for sitting down with the police commissioner and mayor to discuss police reform.
The Rose City Justice marches and rallies attracted a diverse crowd of 10,000 people a night at one point. High school students marched arm-in-arm with the Portland Trail Blazers’ Damian Lillard across the Burnside Bridge, and people gathered along the Willamette River to listen to hours of music and speeches. Aerial photos of the crowds, which filled the massive bridge from end to end, made national headlines.
Now, as clashes with police have become more violent in the business district and moved toward the residential neighborhoods of North Portland, Black residents are watching in dismay. Many are concerned that those watching police precincts burn and businesses get vandalized will wrongly assume Black people are doing the damage.
Jerome Polk has operated his business, J.P.’s Custom Framing, for 26 years from a building he shares with the North Precinct police offices that were set ablaze. As he carried supplies into his business on a recent day, char marks, graffiti and police tape were still visible outside the building, and half of Polk’s own windows had been boarded up as a precaution.
“I don’t know the motivation of why people do what they do,” he said. “I know when the damage is done, they blame that on what the movement is supposed to be. And that’s unfortunate and unfair.”
A few blocks away, Carl Baskin sat next to his drive-up car wash station and worried that the message of racial justice was being taken away from the Black community by “young white children.”
“This is where they’re losing the narrative. In the midst of all this other stuff, they’re not really showing anyone sitting down with the police, actually talking and getting some of this stuff made into laws,” Baskin said. “That’s the stuff we should be talking about.”
The sting is made even deeper by the fact that the North Portland neighborhood has, over the years, seen an exodus of Black families and businesses as white people have moved in. On a recent day, just a few blocks from boarded-up buildings and anti-police graffiti, white families with strollers walked past food carts selling sushi burritos as fliers advertising micro-greens fluttered in the wind.
“Get to know us and get to know the pain that we feel with gentrification in this neighborhood,” said Elaine Loving, who has lived in her family’s North Portland home for 59 years. “Now it’s mostly white folks, and they don’t even speak to us half the time — and that hurts.”
Violence mars Portland protests, frustrates Black community
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Protesters in this liberal, predominantly white city have taken to the streets peacefully every day for more than five weeks to decry police brutality, but violence by smaller groups is dividing the movement and drawing complaints that some white demonstrators are co-opting...
komonews.com
Who would've thought, maybe white anarchists don't actually know what's best for blacks? The bolded part makes me think what I've thought all along, that most of these Portland protesters aren't interested in working together to try to fix things, it's easier to smash.
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eyemgoingtolive
Greenlighter
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- Aug 21, 2020
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your wrong black people are better i can prove it