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lithium carbonate

allone

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
645
just wondering if anyone is using or have used this for psychotic episodes, depression, anxiety, addiction etc ?
i recently acquired some and im worried about interactions. im pretty sure this one is pretty bad, interacting with almost anything out there. i read stories of death, ok, so this one seems something you dont wanna fuck with too much. im specifically curious about its interactions with suboxone and alcohol. those two are already fucked up to mix as it is, but i wonder if lithium will be the icing on the cake? im just wondering about bad nasty interactions, thats all. my doctor didnt tell me shit. the manual reads so many side effects, just like any other med, that im not sure which to be taken serious and why.
 
I was incorrectly diagnosed as bipolar and was on lithium for awhile. It never did anything for me (I'm not bipolar).

It never interacted with my heavy alcohol or opioid use. But yeah, be very careful with lithium and other drugs like psychedelics.
 
how many mg were you taking? i find it hard to believe lithium, as bad as it is, wouldnt cause some issue mixing it with strong shit like opiates or alcohol
 
450mg extended released x2 per day.... but honestly I took it for maybe 2-3 weeks then stopped because it did nothing for me, and when I was taking it im pretty sure I only took 1 pill per day

I kept filling the script for a few months because I didn't want to offend my doctor. He was also giving me good shit like valium and adderall lol
 
Did you have serum levels checked? I'd say that you will definitely feel something from lithium in effective dosage ranges but it has a very narrow therapeutic window which is why I didn't want to try it yet, besides the renal toxicity.
 
450mg extended released x2 per day.... but honestly I took it for maybe 2-3 weeks then stopped because it did nothing for me, and when I was taking it im pretty sure I only took 1 pill per day

I kept filling the script for a few months because I didn't want to offend my doctor. He was also giving me good shit like valium and adderall lol

shit, isnt 450mg a bit too high? cant believe you didnt experience any effects, positive or negative. i got 150mg but havent used yet cuz im afraid to mix with alcohol and suboxone. i was told it takes two weeks to work anyway which is weird. i was looking for something to immediately help with my psychosis. maybe stick to good ol haloperidol. did you ever you try that one? i need decent stable good acting anti psychotic really, thats all. i read lithium is good old well researched candidate but then you tell me it doesnt really work, and then my pharmacist says it takes 2 weeks. fuck this!
 
shit, isnt 450mg a bit too high? cant believe you didnt experience any effects, positive or negative. i got 150mg but havent used yet cuz im afraid to mix with alcohol and suboxone. i was told it takes two weeks to work anyway which is weird. i was looking for something to immediately help with my psychosis. maybe stick to good ol haloperidol. did you ever you try that one? i need decent stable good acting anti psychotic really, thats all. i read lithium is good old well researched candidate but then you tell me it doesnt really work, and then my pharmacist says it takes 2 weeks. fuck this!
Lithium pills in 450mg strength exist so this is within the ranges used, but specially with lithium dosage is very individually dependent and dosages aren't even listed in mg but in mmol/l of blood levels so prescribing it without proper blood work is definitely bad practice and puts your life at danger!

Mixing with alcohol isn't recommended because of the dehydration risk and possibility to reach toxic levels. This stuff is why I didn't want to try lithium even when the theory sounds promising.

It isn't an antipsychotic though, from a gut feeling I'd rather recommend pregabalin for example but then again all the mood stabilizers can be antipsychotic, sodium valproate for example too.

Haloperidol is a poison if you ask me. Got 1mg once and immediately developed severe dyskinesia, imagine what it does to your body to take this stuff regularly. Know of more than one individual with irreversible and non-responding tardive dyskinesia, you don't want that. It is like a chemical sledgehammer that antagonizes a fair share of the receptors you have up there, not just dopamine. But of course, people are different and good if it works for you. :)
 
yeah im trying to remember one time i got a psychotic episode they shot me with haloperidol i believe, and after i left the hospital, was dysfunctional for a week. but they did a combo of ativan too so i always thought it was bad mix reaction. but yeah thanks for reminding me its shit... im likely not to go for it, unless i get raped in the hospital again. for which i have no say at all! it happened so many times that i lost count. those assholes will strap me to those beds and shoot me with whatever chemical they can easily find. who knows how many weird things i got shot in me. just last month i had another episode, got strapped to bed and almost chocked to death by the cops until i yelled I CANT BREATH then they kind of automatically backed off a bit, as if they heard this before with bad consequences haha.

anyway, ill look into pregabalin. i need to find something i can take immediatelly after a psychotic episode, because i dont wanna go to the hospitals anymore. :/
 
@allone In many places it's possible to create a providence declaration for medical emergencies. It's thought to exclude for example life extending measures but afaik - need to check this - it should be possible to exclude certain medicines or treatments. Needs a doc to check you and confirm that you're in full understanding of what you're doing but when it's about bad experiences with outdated medicines it shouldn't be hard to get that. Definitely need to make one against antipsychotics, specially the old ones.

I got admitted to psychiatry multiple times, interestingly never due to drugs (did so myself though cause of drug-induced psychosis) but once you're in either against your will or when they think you're psychotic and might endanger your own or the health of others then you're in and in these acute wards bad practice is usual. Twice I barely escaped, the cocktail of antipsychs caused so much confusion that I forgot essential things about my life and might well have ended as some wreck if being kept on that for long. Another time I had 'luck' because the ER injected me loads of lorazepam and the psych just continued that - they fixated me but I barely remember anything, just slept through the time and got released after 3 days. So, for acute psychosis, benzos are the drug of choice - at least for me.

If you need antipsychs, olanzapine is the only one I tolerate, it knocks me out readily, doesn't worsen psychosis as many others do (yay, olanzapine has 'hearing voices' listed as side effect too, for me risperidone was *bad*) and didn't induce dyskinesia or panic (quetiapine is a strong NRI. Otherwise it'd be a good one) but of course here everyone's different. With benzos, enough of them, everyone will sleep though. I'm not sure whether pregabalin has acute antipsychotic effects as the high you get from taking much of it w/o tolerance doesn't exactly feel so but it might well work, also as a protection against recurring episodes. My theory is that it's wrong to believe there was 'the' psychosis. It's rather the normality, and if something deviates too much, the neural network's processing becomes corrupted -> psychosis. The intent of antipsychs is to slow down the brain so it can recover - gabaergics are pretty direct in doing this too.

May I ask what symptoms you have in psychotic episodes? Voices, paranoia, fixed beliefs, racing thoughts .. do you always know that they are symptoms? For me it was that way, and imo we should have subtypes of psychosis with this being a primary criteria.
 
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I've been on lithium for a year; ADD. It's all right. The thing is you don't know how it'll work until you've taken it for a while

Like I don't notice being on it but if I haven't taken it yet, I will. That's after like 5 or 6 months. It builds up in your system

The blood tests aren't bad at all even though I hate being pricked with needles it's only twice a year. They take a blood sample to make sure it's working

One thing I can think of that I've heard as a side effect is tremors, like if you hold out your hand and can't keep it still. Not everybody experiences this though. Another thing is to drink water more often because of dehydration. I don't know if that's true but I do it just to be safe

Interactions depend on your body. I have a fast metabolism and don't notice any but that's not to say that you won't

Best of luck ;)
 
I didn't realize they prescribed lithium for ADD.
 
I think it's scripted off-label, or a newer practice
Never heard of either but found this:

The authors examined the efficacy of methylphenidate (MPH) and lithium to treat attention-deficit/ hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in adults, usinga randomized, double-blind, crossover design. Patients received 8 weeks of MPH treatment (up to 40 mg/day) and 8 weeks of lithium treatment (up to 1,200 mg/day), by random assignment. Independent evaluators blind to group assignment assessed response every 2 weeks and at the end of each phase. The primary outcome measure was the Conners’ Adult ADHD RatingScale sum score for the clusters of hyperactivity, impulsivity, and learningproblems. Secondary outcome measures were scores of irritability, overt aggression, antisocial behavior, anxiety, and depression, and scores on tests of verbal learningand sustained attention. In this preliminary study, lithium and MPH produced similar improvements on the primary outcome measure and on measures of irritability, aggressive outbursts, antisocial behavior, anxiety, and depression. (The Journal of Neuropsychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences 2002; 14:289–295)

Interesting that it's of similar efficacy than MPH - the norepinephrinergics for example are to my knowledge inferior and used only to avoid misuse or for some individuals which react better to it. Atomoxetine also was found to be a weak NMDA antagonist and these for sure help with the symptoms when used in low dose, for me they are superior to any stimulant.

Last time I looked for it appeared that the mechanism of lithium is still not finally elucidated but it has some interesting properties

- Decreasing norepinephrine release and increasing serotonin synthesis.[59] (<- good. While NE is required too for energy & drive, it has mostly negative mental effects like anxiety, stress, aggression, fight & flight)
- It was also reported that NMDA receptor blockage augments antidepressant-like effects of lithium in the mouse forced swimming test,[72] indicating the possible involvement of NMDA receptor/NO signaling in the action of lithium in this animal model of learned helplessness. (<- yeah!)
- May interact with nitric oxide (NO) signalling pathway in the central nervous system. (<- don't understand it yet fully but some good drugs do this)
- Lithium both directly and indirectly inhibits GSK-3β which results in the activation of mTOR. (<- Ketamine does this and might be how the sustained AD effect comes to work.)
- Stabilizes dopamine and GABA (<- don't like the first part but as they don't say antagonize but stabilize, against both mania and depression, it still sounds good)
- Lithium treatment has been found to inhibit the enzyme inositol monophosphatase involved in degrading inositol monophosphate (<- Inositol is antidepressive too)

Last but not least lithium prevents suicide in a statistically relevant degree already in very low doses as found in drinking water in some places. This made me think that maybe we don't need full therapeutic levels to provide some relief, maybe protecting against neuronal over-excitation and possible synergia with other agents like nmda antagonists but read often that even in low therapeutic doses people feel nothing at all. This doesn't have to mean it's to be inactive though, I didn't feel anything from buprenorphine either but realized in retrospection that I wasn't nearly as depressive as usual.

Always when I read about Li, I get the impression that I need to give it a try. If it just wasn't so toxic (I don't get my water and food intake controlled, forgot about it all the time).
 
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It might not be popular because of the taste, although it doesn't bother me. Imagine slaked lime or licking a rock. As soon as you swallow it it's mostly gone though it's one of those pills you have to take with a drink to get it down

There are other medicines that taste far worse and like chemicals
 
dopamimetic, thats why im also scared to use it. but i read toxicity is based on long term high dose maintenance. you can just low dose it for a month then take month off so on so fourth. check this out;
 
the dopamine effect actually scares me. i dont get how it can actually prevent suicide yet enhance dopamine. im dopamine junk, and when i have too much i go psychotic . but i think it may be its anti norepinephrine effect, which is as im sure most people know, very connected with dopamine.
 
the dopamine effect actually scares me. i dont get how it can actually prevent suicide yet enhance dopamine. im dopamine junk, and when i have too much i go psychotic . but i think it may be its anti norepinephrine effect, which is as im sure most people know, very connected with dopamine.
As far as I understand it doesn't enhance DA in the sense of 'more of it' as this would be counter-productive for a mood stabilizer indeed. They say 'stabilizing' DA so leveling out sudden increases or decreases maybe? Lithium can actually be antipsychotic. NE is involved for sure, plain dopamine agonists make me (hypo)manic but stims are much more compulsive, paranoia-inducing and speedy at doses which aren't yet as manic.

Also traumatic brain injury is a heavy condition in which a drug might well have differing effects than in the average individual. The Z-drugs for example can normalize speech in people whose became impaired after brain trauma but put healthy individuals just asleep.
 
As far as I understand it doesn't enhance DA in the sense of 'more of it' as this would be counter-productive for a mood stabilizer indeed. They say 'stabilizing' DA so leveling out sudden increases or decreases maybe? Lithium can actually be antipsychotic. NE is involved for sure, plain dopamine agonists make me (hypo)manic but stims are much more compulsive, paranoia-inducing and speedy at doses which aren't yet as manic.

Also traumatic brain injury is a heavy condition in which a drug might well have differing effects than in the average individual. The Z-drugs for example can normalize speech in people whose became impaired after brain trauma but put healthy individuals just asleep.

very good point about traumatic brain injury issue. it should not be viewed as simple.
but anyway, i did take some today and no effect really, even with few beers and vodka. i guess its true it takes a week or two. because i had high hopes and alcohol usually stimulates the shit out of me, i also took valium just in case i dont go too hypomania
 
after 3 days on lithium, im experiencing kidney pain in both ends of my back. is this normal, with the kidneys trying to adjust? or should i lower the dose, or just stop it??
 
dopamimetic, thats why im also scared to use it. but i read toxicity is based on long term high dose maintenance. you can just low dose it for a month then take month off so on so fourth. check this out;
That sounds pointless. The purpose of taking it is to feel better. Your brain needs time to adjust and level off
 
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