Social Justice Here we go again: Killing of Rayshard Brooks by Atlanta police

[Deru]

You're just uninformed so you cannot grasp what's going on.

I promise you, you're very wrong. This is another coping mechanism for you to dismiss another human being's views that don't align with yours, and your closed mind doesn't allow the possibility that you could be wrong. See, the difference with me, is my views constantly evolve - I'm not stuck or naive enough to think anything stays stationary when it comes to human beings. Eventually the spectrum of variables will shift, and my views will shift, whatever that may be. One thing is for certain, most well adjusted individuals will never shift too far to one extreme, which is why you sound so ridiculous sometimes - life just does not work in absolutes, there has to be room to shift views based on constantly changing variables.

The radical leftists think they're on the verge of creating some communist utopia (and many seem to want to oppress or inflict harm on the ones who disagree with them).

I don't think the majority is in any way interested in this, if there is a small group who thinks this, it will never happen. They sound about as ridiculous and insane as some of the things I've heard you say. The viewpoints are too close to one extreme, or absolute, and human behavior never works in absolutes, so both sides (extreme left, extreme right) just sound like a bunch of aggressive, stubborn, closed minded nut jobs.

Yeah no I don't buy that take of - welp look how quickly everything is changing, completely organically.

Yeah, except it didn't. As always, ignoring the facts. There was this pesky video of an unarmed black man being murdered in broad daylight by police officers while people begged and pleaded for them to stop. That sparked it, not to mention the events that kept adding fuel to the fire with more bad police doing more inexcusable things. And the spark was only possible because these beliefs and views had been brewing for quite some time, the video just helped the majority of people to finally be fed up and vocalize those views and beliefs. But I ignore the facts, right?

Maybe you are projecting a little as in you feel fear that what I'm saying may be closer to accurate

No, it's annoying the craziness you clutter up the threads with - and remember, I tried very hard to talk civilly with you. At this point, everywhere I look you're arguing with everyone. No one is ever going to buy into what you're saying unless they, too, are paranoid or scared and uninformed or both.

This I would agree with somewhat but I've gotten a lot better and it's frustration, not fear

Yes, the frustration is the emotion that causes the comments, but the fear is what spawns it all.

You feel that I am being irrational, however there's nothing rational about what's happening in our world today. To consider it rational just means you're missing a lot of it or are unable or unwilling to internalize and process it.

Well, this debate could go on forever. The whole point of a social construct is to define what "rational" is, so that will constantly evolve. The individual doesn't get to decide what rational is, the majority does, so embrace change or be left in misery and fear hating it, yelling at everyone trying to convince them the world has gone insane...

I do it out of empathy but I also realize that pushing too hard against someone's belief systems is a violation of their free will, but I don't push it that far

I know, like I said, I know you believe you are right and justified and you're trying to help people, I understand that and have already given you that. The problem is you do push it too far, and keep pushing it, it never ends. Learn how to communicate more civilly and, I promise you, people would respond better to you, even if they still don't agree.

 

[Deru]

However the solution to this is training. Not defunding or punish them.

Absolutely, that's kind of what I touched on earlier. A large portion of reform is going to be training. But here I think is where the financial portion will come into play - take away funding if police departments don't do the training and achieve the reformed level (whatever that winds up being.) So in that sense, you create financial motivation, because it's probably impossible to force every police department in this country to change. So, the financial motivation I think would be one possible solution to that, and if the police department refuses, then invest the money in other well needed social services. It's not a be-all, end-all solution, but I think it could be one component to the solution. And, I think it's realistic to accept there will probably not be only one widespread change, it will probably be a few smaller changes to accomplish the same thing. And then that also gives each individual department the flexibility on how they want to achieve it, or loss a portion of money, which is everything.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Absolutely, that's kind of what I touched on earlier. A large portion of reform is going to be training. But here I think is where the financial portion will come into play - take away funding if police departments don't do the training and achieve the reformed level (whatever that winds up being.) So in that sense, you create financial motivation, because it's probably impossible to force every police department in this country to change. So, the financial motivation I think would be one possible solution to that, and if the police department refuses, then invest the money in other well needed social services. It's not a be-all, end-all solution, but I think it could be one component to the solution. And, I think it's realistic to accept there will probably not be only one widespread change, it will probably be a few smaller changes to accomplish the same thing. And then that also gives each individual department the flexibility on how they want to achieve it, or loss a portion of money, which is everything.

Bad paychecks for police leads to corruption. They put their lives on risk daily and keep communities safe. Crime rates without Police would be insane and "CHAZ" is a great way to prove this.
I actually think that byreaucurats shouldn't be able to choose what police departments need. They should be given a lump amount of money / people in their area + crime in their area and they could spend it in the way the themselves see it best. Local sheriffs, at least in small towns know much better what the community needs. Corruption could be a problem, but i think corrupt polices would be voted out super fast if communities notice that they're spending the money bad. Of course there could be some kind of sending receipts so someone higher in police / law enforcement hierarchy that can see that it's spent very well. This could help local polices to deal with problems in their area the best way.

 

[JGrimez]

I promise you, you're very wrong. This is another coping mechanism for you to dismiss another human being's views that don't align with yours, and your closed mind doesn't allow the possibility that you could be wrong. See, the difference with me, is my views constantly evolve - I'm not stuck or naive enough to think anything stays stationary when it comes to human beings. Eventually the spectrum of variables will shift, and my views will shift, whatever that may be. One thing is for certain, most well adjusted individuals will never shift too far to one extreme, which is why you sound so ridiculous sometimes - life just does not work in absolutes, there has to be room to shift views based on constantly changing variables.

Well you're not shifting enough. And I'm not really interested in trading personal barbs.
But since you think differently, could you answer these questions for me?
Do you think the current system is white supremacist? If so, why is this system now capitulating to anti-white movements?
Good luck with that one.

I don't think the majority is in any way interested in this, if there is a small group who thinks this, it will never happen.

OK so what does the majority want? Be specific. Because I've heard a lot of demands which are more ridiculous and insane than anything I've said.

There was this pesky video of an unarmed black man being murdered in broad daylight by police officers while people begged and pleaded for them to stop. That sparked it, not to mention the events that kept adding fuel to the fire with more bad police doing more inexcusable things. And the spark was only possible because these beliefs and views had been brewing for quite some time, the video just helped the majority of people to finally be fed up and vocalize those views and beliefs. But I ignore the facts, right?

Yeah, obviously there was a video. But I look deeper than that than you do. Why was this video obsessively being shown in its entirety across the mainstream media? Who organized the protests/riots? Who was leaving pallets of bricks around? There are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that you are completely unaware of, that you assume happen by accident or organically. That's what happens when you're one of the people who has their emotions manipulated by the mainstream media. The rest of us analyze the MSM to see what agenda they're currently playing and how they're trying to direct the masses.

No, it's annoying the craziness you clutter up the threads with - and remember, I tried very hard to talk civilly with you. At this point, everywhere I look you're arguing with everyone. No one is ever going to buy into what you're saying unless they, too, are paranoid or scared and uninformed or both.

That's a very egoistic and condescending way to view the situation. There are plenty of people here who agree with me. Some stay silent, some like my posts, some message me privately. Just because you consider something crazy or clutter doesn't make it so. You could be completely wrong, ignorant and clutterful yourself (although it's a little bit of an echo chamber so I get why you dislike my posts).

Yes, the frustration is the emotion that causes the comments, but the fear is what spawns it all.

The ones who walk around believing media BS, scared of a flu-like virus, wearing a mask in public, believing whites are inherently out to get them - they are the ones living in fear.
I spend most of my time in a state of bewildered amusement.
But maybe if you say that I'm living in fear another 10 times it may become more real in your mind.

Well, this debate could go on forever. The whole point of a social construct is to define what "rational" is, so that will constantly evolve. The individual doesn't get to decide what rational is, the majority does, so embrace change or be left in misery and fear hating it, yelling at everyone trying to convince them the world has gone insane...

Rational is not protesting in huge crowds during an alleged pandemic where people were arrested for paddleboarding alone in the ocean.
Rational is not looting a store in response to someone being killed in police custody.
I can go on but I'm not surprised that a postmodernist would like to argue the definition of the word rational.
And suggesting that the majority dictate what's rational is the funniest thing I've heard all day..

I know, like I said, I know you believe you are right and justified and you're trying to help people, I understand that and have already given you that. The problem is you do push it too far, and keep pushing it, it never ends. Learn how to communicate more civilly and, I promise you, people would respond better to you, even if they still don't agree.

I'll take that on board.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I just think cops shouldn't be given such broad power. The more the power is spread out the less likely it is to be abused.

They've also been given progressively broader responsibility beyond just enforcing the law. Social work, mediator, mentor, pastor, whatever the situation requires in order to de-escalate and maintain the police. I'm not sure how much they were prepared for that during the process. Some, I'm sure, but how effective, and is that really the roles they need to be filling beyond enforcing the law? Just shootin' from the hip here.

I've been saying we need a whole new way of training them here.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Even the cowardly cop who murdered the black man by shooting him in the back deserves due process. Even though he said "got him!" and kicked the corpse still lying warm in the crowded Wendy's parking lot where children were present, even that scumbag still deserves due process.

Agreed. And the DA is f'n it up bad. Cop deserves a fair investigation and trial, and the DA rushed to a press conference to deliver his trial in public before investigators had a chance. As guilty as the cop may be, the DA may get the case thrown out by his misconduct.

Political grandstanding accusations levied against Fulton County DA by Georgia Sheriffs’ Association

 

[Deru]

As guilty as the cop may be, the DA may get the case thrown out by his misconduct.

That's an interesting take on what Paul Howard did; however, I'd be slow to rush to judgement based upon what the Georgia Sheriffs' Association says about it. I personally think what Paul Howard did was great, and yes, I personally watched every minute of the press conference. I thought the only place he went astray was the portion about Bosnan becoming state's witness - he almost forced Bosnan to dispute agreeing to becoming a cooperating witness, that part I did cringe a bit at, but I think it was strategic because my guess is Paul Howard assumed Bosnan - at some point - would decide against it anyways.

It's worth mentioning too, this is not the first time the GSA has accused him or his office of misconduct, so it's safe to say they have never been happy to have him as a DA to begin with.

 

[Deru]

I just stumbled upon this, which further reinforces my initial gut reaction to take whatever the GSA says with severe caution:

Fulton County DA Paul Howard: It's the same criticism every time | CNN

Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard responds to criticism that his decision to charge two officers involved in the killing of Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta was politically motivated.

www.cnn.com

 

[JessFR]

Agreed. And the DA is f'n it up bad. Cop deserves a fair investigation and trial, and the DA rushed to a press conference to deliver his trial in public before investigators had a chance. As guilty as the cop may be, the DA may get the case thrown out by his misconduct.

God the system is such a mess of fuckups.

I don't think DA's should be elected. It makes them politicians.

 

[Deru]

God the system is such a mess of fuckups.

I don't think DA's should be elected. It makes them politicians.

The issue with that, though, is you lose the checks and balances with that to enforce what society wants. What do you think a better solution could be for DAs? They have to be responsible to the people they represent, so I personally believe it's a necessary evil for positions like these. Even if it is done for re-election, then they're doing what the majority wants or they will lose the election, so it works as intended.

More so, I'd say it's working perfectly as intended.

 

[JessFR]

Lots of other democratic countries have appointed DA's (or rather their version of position) and arguably less corruption in the court system as a result.

 

[Deru]

I think those countries would have to be looked at on a granular level, what other checks and balances are done to allow the DA to not be elected officials, my guess is there is a mechanism that would allow that to happen, it's not an apples to apples comparison.

In the US, it just has to be this way. Because what's "right" will slightly evolve as society evolves, which is why the DA, at least here, needs to be an elected official unless other changes were made to keep the checks and balances working as intended. There has to be an inherent "flexibility" mechanism, and that comes with elected positions. Just think: what positions can the president nominate without Congressional approval, there is a method to the madness, all the way down to state and local elected officials.

 

[Xorkoth]

Who was leaving pallets of bricks around?

That's a good question and I'd like to know for sure. Some people associated with Antifa were caught smuggling weapons in. Also, some cops and right-wing group affiliates were caught on video starting fires and provoking other violent acts during peaceful protests, lighting the flame so to speak. I think various groups probably have contributed to destabilizing peaceful protests, for different reasons. For the cops and others opposed to the protests, it behooves their causes to delegitimize the protests by being able to say "hey look, all these peaceful protests are turning violent". Indeed, I can't tell you how many people have written the whole thing off as "just a bunch of opportunistic looters", when in fact the vast majority of the protests across the country have been peaceful. On the other side, Antifa wants to radicalize people and so desires the protests to turn violent for the opposite reason.

Both of these are fucked up, and are working in their own ways to destroy this movement and erase the good, patriotic contributions of the vast majority of the people, who are exercising their constitutionally-mandated right to protest.

 

[mal3volent]

#defund

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Listen to the eloquence that the speaker expresses in this clip.




Now think of the rhetoric that is being expressed now by "demonstrators."

What's the difference? Everyone in society has been dumbed down to the point that society as a whole is no longer capable of discussion of mutual problems and our inclusion in the solution. Veyy convenient for those in power who tell everyone. don't think, just feel and "TRUST US TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS FOR YOU. That includes the main speaking points of the present left and right leaning "candidates."

Now, ask yourself, is this dumbing down of everyone really what we want? We are no longer informed citizens, we are now all "victims" who need help. That's very convenient for those who want to divide us by factions, then rule us

 

[JGrimez]

Both of these are fucked up, and are working in their own ways to destroy this movement and erase the good, patriotic contributions of the vast majority of the people, who are exercising their constitutionally-mandated right to protest.

I actually don't mind peaceful protesting right now because I don't buy into the virus hype, but according the what the vast majority of these protesters believe, they should not be out protesting during a pandemic.
I agree with you about nefarious actors radicalizing both groups.

This cop picked the absolutely worst time to shoot Brooks. If he had done it a year or two ago it would barely have received a mention.
But I won't be surprised if this cop is made an example of.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Lots of other democratic countries have appointed DA's (or rather their version of position) and arguably less corruption in the court system as a result.

The argument I'd put against appointed positions like that is Trump. I mean, Trump made it all the way to the White House. Someone like that can make it to any state or local position and appoint their army to enforce their views. Is this what you want? I agree, the politicing of such offices as the DA is sickening, but they need to be answerable to the people they serve.

 

[Deru]

I agree, the politicing of such offices as the DA is sickening, but they need to be answerable to the people they serve.

Exactly, for our social construct/society/government/country, that's a built in check and balance. Something else would have to be changed to allow that position to go from an elected to appointed position to achieve the same level of balance.

 

[JessFR]

The argument I'd put against appointed positions like that is Trump. I mean, Trump made it all the way to the White House. Someone like that can make it to any state or local position and appoint their army to enforce their views. Is this what you want? I agree, the politicing of such offices as the DA is sickening, but they need to be answerable to the people they serve.

I might well agree with that point if a leader like trump were the rule rather than the exception.

I don't believe that's the case though.

 

[AutoTripper]

This whole thing, in my possible but strong belief- was potentially rigged up and blown up massively in the media intentionally as another attack on Donald Trump's chances of re-election.

The Corona was intended to be the first attack but was accidentally leaked early possibly even before or fully completed if you get me.

That Failed dismally and this whole black lives matter Street protesting etc is yet another instigated attack to try and weaken Donald Trump's power regarding re-election etc.

I'm sure you will all think I'm pretty crazy but I really believe this to potentially true that this was deliberately instigated from the start but either way everything else I say above is exactly correct.