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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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In other words, Americans might be more likely to demand to sacrifice lives for the economy, because they are risking so much more on average by being unable to work for a period of time.

I don't see or hear many Americans concerned about their income, at least as it relates to medical care and such. Everything is still in such a 'pause' that a sense of 'loss' isnt bearing down in that regard. I sense an air of holding ones breath until this passes and then sort it out. Meaning, if worker isnt paid, rent isnt paid but we'll still live here (no evictions/foreclosures), we can still pick up our meds (with any savings we have, if you arent still getting paid to work 'essential' or 'remote'), and you cant go hospital cuz its all corona'd. Not spending on gas. Food yes, gas no.

I see the push to return based on a few other, less substantial, factors. First, sheeple listen to the news and-or Trump, and their leaders tell them the economy is dying...wile watching their peers get laid off or furloughed. They don't want to lose their job, lost in the sea of those ever growing unemployment numbers. Better to have a job now than look for one if (IF!!) the economy comes back. So, a sense of security on that count = having employment at all, and keeping it. Secondly, there is the stir-crazy effect. But I think many are still viewing this as a mini-vacation or walkabout, if you will. A time to re-assess priorities in the world, or for them personally. And, perhaps as a result of a capitalistic country engraining 'get mine' mentality for generations, there is the fear of falling behind when things to start back up again. And, unfortunately, many self-identify heavily with what work they do. Without that, they feel adrift. No schedule, no sense of worth to the world. And third, for those that see themselves as more rational minded...it's about numbers. The disbelief in the horrific original projections getting lowered steadily leaves them with little faith in the gov't or it's measures. Moreover, Covid spreads more than regular flu, but we're losing roughly the same small percentage of the population, many feel they can take their chances like they do every year. IF they get it, the chances of it being serious are very small. Everyday, the numbers reported show more and more that this virus was already widespread, driving down the kill rate, telling us the herd immunity was at work but is stifled and will have to be faced at some time. Screw it, let's go, a few get sick but most of us get back to where we were.

That, is what I see around me. Though, tbh, the majority of those in my neighborhood are fine holding as-is. It's the online conservatives I see who are more gung-ho about getting the economy back up. Though, I don't really feel like we should, or really can, begin to label the 'back to work' group as conservatives or liberals, when Democrat governors appear to be some of the first to open things back up.
 
I just think it's funny Americans want to go back to work so quickly.

NORMALLY after THOUSANDS of Americans die in an event like this

Because to many, now that we're passed the hysteria and are getting closer to real numbers on what this virus is doing...it isn't a special event other than the shutdown aspect. Millions die every year - from car accidents, cigarettes, cancer, even the flu. Take the hysteria out of it, and how different are we RIGHT NOW than we were a year ago? That's what is going through their minds.
 
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Most Americans who carry the coronavirus don’t know it

by Shan Soe-Lin and Robert Hecht | New York Times | 26 April 2020

To suppress Covid-19, we need to test those with no symptoms.

by Shan Soe-Lin and Robert Hecht | New York Times | 26 April 2020

Ms. Soe-Lin is managing director of Pharos Global Health Advisors and a lecturer at the Jackson Institute for Global Affairs at Yale University. Mr. Hecht is a professor of clinical epidemiology at Yale University and the president of Pharos Global Health Advisors.

Almost the only people who are being tested for the coronavirus are those who have symptoms of Covid-19, an approach endorsed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which provides guidance for states.

That has probably revealed just a fraction of the people infected, putting thousands of American in danger, because most of those who carry the virus do not know it.

What’s needed is widespread testing of people with no known symptoms

A small set of blood tests for antibodies indicated that as many as 2.7 million New Yorkers may have been infected without realizing it, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said on Thursday. That’s in line with other findings. A recent study showed that up to one-third of residents in Chelsea, a hot spot in Massachusetts, may have been infected, and only half of them could recall having a single symptom over the past four weeks. Another small study, of pregnant women in New York City, found that 15 percent tested positive for the virus, and 80 percent of them had no symptoms. Of the 840 cases on the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, 60 percent were asymptomatic.

So Covid-19 seems much more prevalent than our meager amount of testing has indicated, and millions of infected people may be innocently spreading the disease.

We need to aggressively search for asymptomatic carriers, particularly among people who have frequent contact with the public and among vulnerable populations. This includes those who are infectious but will never develop symptoms and those who will develop them days after the test.

Those in high-risk asymptomatic groups who must be urgently targeted include health workers, especially those in long-term care facilities; the homeless and those working in shelters; grocery store employees and delivery drivers, taxi drivers, emergency workers, employees in high density workplaces like delivery warehouses and meat processing plants; and anyone who has had close contact with a known Covid-19 patient. These high-risk groups need to be tested as often as every five days, given what we know about the time it takes to develop symptoms after becoming infected, and those found to be infected should self-isolate immediately while their contacts should be quarantined for 14 days.

Testing will need to be expanded at least fivefold and made as accessible and convenient as possible, without the need for a doctor’s referral, and free of charge. Right now about 200,000 people a day are being tested for the virus across the country. We need this to grow to around a million tests or more daily. Testing will be sufficient when fewer than 5 percent of the tests come up positive. In New York, 38 percent of those tested were found to be infected as of Wednesday. The number of new tests is also far too low. Louisiana, another hot spot, reported only 481 new Covid-19 tests last Thursday.

To do this, states must expand mobile testing programs so workers like those in grocery stores and high-density workplaces can be tested repeatedly and on-site. They should also set up neighborhood testing sites to encourage everyone else to get tested without hassle.

Scaling up testing will require a surge in strategic planning and supply chain management. The Food and Drug Administration recently approved new polyester-based swabs that can be swiftly manufactured domestically and don’t have to be inserted as far up the nose. It also approved the use of sterile saline solution for transporting samples for testing if the medium that is normally used is unavailable. Newly approved testing platforms can deliver results in 15 minutes.

These recent advances should ease supply chain bottlenecks and increase the availability of tests. But states will still need to build a vast testing infrastructure using community health centers, pharmacies and private providers. The results of this hugely expanded testing will need to be digitally coordinated so infected people can be connected to the larger system of counseling, contact tracing and supportive services. Massachusetts has started an ambitious collaboration between the Department of Public Health, the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority and Boston-based Partners in Health to contact trace all infected cases.

Expanded testing would help states more aggressively suppress the disease

Those with active infection could get support for self-isolation and contact tracing to identify others at risk who can be quarantined. To help those who cannot self-isolate safely we need a chain of care, adapted to American conditions, that includes safe places for self-isolation, supported by tens of thousands of community workers who can perform testing and contact tracing and make it easier for people to quarantine. Already, some states have converted empty university dorm rooms and hotels for this purpose, but so far the effort has been patchwork.

If we can’t prevent the spread of Covid-19, the economy will not be able to reopen. Rapidly finding and isolating all infected patients, focusing particularly on the large pool of infected asymptomatic people, and quarantining their close contacts before they have had a chance to infect others is the only way that the pandemic can be controlled until an effective Covid-19 vaccine is found.

 
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lol @ testing ppl w/o symptoms

idiots

I HAD symptoms SEVERAL times NEVER qualified for a test

except for the last time and hell no I'm not sacrificing all my civil rights because I had the flu I want to use drugs and they won't give me benzos and it'll be a shitshow
 
OMG fuck your bosses...yea we are getting out bonus early but it’s only about $120 but hey, it will help pay rent and bills a little.
Yeah they are shitty and it is hard to look past because I am grateful that I still have a job.
I know you guys have heard me bitch earlier about co-workers that don't work and still get paid, that shit is the hardest thing that I am dealing with mentally. I just can't seem to look past it.
It has just been so hard lately dealing with what is going on.
 
I'm ready for them to start opening shit. There's not gonna be any economy left if they don't. It won't matter how many people die because more people are gonna die from not having any money and starving or suicide because they can't support their kids anymore.
 
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Donald Trump will no longer be appearing every day at White House coronavirus briefings.


Trump says briefings 'not worth the effort' amid fallout from disinfectant comments

The president remained behind closed doors after advisers reportedly warned him that the briefings were hurting his campaign.

by Lauren Aratani | The Guardian | 25 April 2020

After more than a month of near-daily White House coronavirus press briefings, Donald Trump stayed behind closed doors on Saturday after advisers reportedly warned the president that his appearances were hurting his campaign.

Trump himself referenced his absence when he wrote on Twitter that the briefings are “not worth the time & effort.” The president wrote the tweet on Saturday evening, when he would usually be taking the podium to address journalists.

“What is the purpose of having White House News Conferences when the Lamestream Media asks nothing but hostile questions, & then refuses to report the truth or facts accurately,” he wrote. “They get record ratings, & the American people get nothing but Fake News. Not worth the time & effort!”

In recent weeks Trump has used the briefings to dole out unproven and debunked medical advice, suggesting that things like sunlight and an anti-malaria drug are cures to Covid-19, often causing his own medical experts to try to correct the record.

But on Friday Trump surprised observers by taking no questions and stalking out of the room after an unusually short briefing of just 22 minutes. Some took the move as an acknowledgement from Trump himself that he may have taken things too far when he said on Thursday that disinfectant could be used to cure Covid-19.


Trump floats dangerous coronavirus treatment ideas as Dr. Birx looks on.

Those comments sparked shock and ridicule – and warnings from healthcare experts – and prompted Trump to make a ham-fisted attempt at a clawback when he later said he had made the remarks sarcastically – despite video proving he had not.

While the press briefings are meant to give members of the coronavirus task force an opportunity to provide updates on the state of Covid-19 in the country, the attention around the briefings has been centered on Trump’s use of the podium as his bully pulpit.

The president has used the briefings as uncensored airtime, praising his administration for its response to the crisis while criticizing the media and Democrats for any negative comeback.

Advisers close to the president told him to stop making appearances at the briefings unless special announcements needed to be made, according to multiple reports published Saturday morning. The advice comes as Trump trails Joe Biden in polls from swing states. Perhaps, his advisers believe, because his appearances are overkill.

“I told him it’s not helping him,” one adviser told Axios. “Seniors are scared. And the spectacle of him fighting with the press isn’t what people want to see.”

Trump has reportedly been hesitant to end his briefing appearances, Axios reported, because he said they bring in good television ratings.

The president has also used the briefings as an opportunity to rile up his base in a way that would typically be done at his rallies. Trump has criticized Democrats and attacked Biden, referring to him as “Sleepy Joe” during briefings, veering far away from the subject of Covid-19.

It is unclear whether Trump can stay away from the podium, or whether his instincts as a reality television star will kick in and the show will go on.

“He’s going to want to get media attention and control his message,” Sam Nunberg, a political consultant who briefly worked on Trump’s campaign in 2016, told Politico. “He is the only one who thinks he can do his message best, and that’s just the reality. That’s how he works.”

 
NHS warns of rise in children with new illness that may be linked to coronavirus
Denis Campbell
The Guardian
April 27th, 2020
Children are falling ill with a new and potentially fatal combination of symptoms apparently linked to Covid-19, including a sore stomach and heart problems.

The children affected appear to have been struck by a form of toxic shock syndrome. Some have been left so seriously unwell that they have had to be treated in intensive care. At least one has undergone extra corporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) treatment, which is used when someone’s life is at risk because they can no longer breathe for themselves.

It is not known how many such cases have appeared, though it is thought to be a small number. But NHS bosses are so concerned that they have written to doctors alerting them to the existence of the syndrome and asked them to urgently refer any children who appear to have it to hospital.

In a letter to GPs in north London, reported by the Health Service Journal , NHS bosses said: “It has been reported that over the last three weeks there has been an apparent rise in the number of children of all ages presenting with a multi-system inflammatory state requiring intensive care across London and also in other regions of the UK.

“The cases have in common overlapping feature of toxic shock syndrome and atypical Kawasaki disease with blood parameters consistent with severe Covid-19 in children.
Read the full story here.
 
Anyone who passed basic high school biology would have suspected that SARS-COV2 would spread between humans. SARS did. Other coronaviruses do. Why would SARS-COV2 be an odd one out?
Maybe you should be asking why the premiere health organization was broadcasting a view that was so blatantly unscientific and potentially dangerous.
And also why many governments continue to act in an unscientific manner.

That would imply that nothing less than a perfectly accurate model, produced on the very first iteration, would be acceptable. Perfect world fallacy!
Perfectly accurate? How about being even close to accurate? And why aren't they admitting they were inaccurate and going back on the restrictions that were justified by the incorrect models.

I guess all these vaccine testing protocols must just be a mirage. The vaccine adverse effect reporting systems set up by both the US and Canada (the two systems are independent) also contributes.
From the article:
"A larger group of several hundred individuals participates in Phase II testing. Some of the individuals may belong to groups at risk of acquiring the disease. These trials are randomized and well controlled, and include a placebo group." This doesn't specifically state it but from what I've researched no vaccine has been tested in a double blind against a placebo. Fauci was questioned about this and he said it would be "unethical". That's their stance. They also refuse to a comprehensive vaccinated vs unvaccinated study ignoring the fact that many unvaccinated individuals would be more than happy to take part in it. They've got all the data there they just refuse to do the comparison. I wonder why.

Also from the article: "Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement."
And people are talking about possibly producing a vaccine this year or next? For a novel virus we discovered just months ago? Would you all be happy to take it and trust that it would be safe?

One more time with feeling: the statistics I see show rhat vaccines are much preferable to uncontrolled disease.
And from what I've seen the auto-immune and other side effects from vaccines are much more prevalent than advertised. The data needs to be transparent for people to make an informed decision regarding risk. If I personally could choose whether my newborn receives a Hep B injection on day 1 vs risking catching the disease then you can guess what I would choose.

So what's a guy supposed to do when faced with someone struggling to breathe, and SpO2 below 90% or even lower? I left my Star Trek injectible trioxygen compounds in the 24th century. Do they just switch you to an oxygen cannula or mask instead? (How well does that work when your lungs are full of inflammation?)
If there's fluid in the lungs then the ventilator will block its escape. I'm not an expert but from the experts that I'm hearing they're saying being put on ventilators is basically a death sentence. So people are being pressured to being put on ventilators without their family present (no family due to virus risks) and people are also being pressured to sign DNR forms. To answer your question though, I would suggest the cocktail of drugs that Dr Zelenko used to successfully treat 100% of his 700 covid patients. "His treatment resulted in the shortness of breath issue being resolved in 4 to 6 hours. Dr. Zelenko in his study had zero deaths, zero hospitalizations and zero intubations". Meanwhile there were reports of 80-90% of people being put on ventilators dying. Personally if I was admitted to hospital with confirmed severe covid then I would instantly ask for high doses of IV Vitamin C. I believe that would fix my problem but if not then I would ask for Zelenko's treatment. I would never ever let them pressure me to get on a ventilator.

And if you don't believe me, here is a nurse blowing the whistle on what I was suspecting is going on in NYC and some other places:



Corollary: States with lockdowns are functioning just as well as states without. Transitive property, woo.
Yeah.... there's no statistical significance for deaths between countries that locked down and ones that didn't.


Dr Artin Massihi: "But now that we have the data we're seeing that 96-97% of patients completely recover, and those 4 patients (out of 100) that die, they have 90% comorbidities - heart failure, emphysema, rheumatoid athritis, lupus, they're on immunomodulating medications, they're immunodeficient, HIV - these are the people that are dying. You get some healthy people that die but that's an infinitesimal number. Tiny."
 
I'm ready for them to start opening shit. There's not gonna be any economy left if they don't. It won't matter how many people die because more people are gonna die from not having any money and starving or suicide because they can't support their kids anymore.
Says the person who guilt tripped me for having a love life weeks ago...

But I actually do agree with you on this front.

Make the 6 feet PERSONAL SPACE a rule, engineer it for jobs to be a reality, give us some hand sanitizer and a mask if needed and PUT US BACK TO WORK.

Or cut us another god damn "stay at home and cry harder" check.
 
Climate science deniers at forefront of downplaying coronavirus pandemic

LOL - they're getting so desperate to craft a narrative,
Trump voters!
Anti-vaxxers!
Climate change deniers!
These are the only types of people who are skeptical of unscientific government restrictions and the loss of their jobs!

Am I seriously supposed to believe that this is worse than hundreds of thousands of people dying?
You missed the point. It's that the movers and shakers are still profiting from what's happening.
Also newsflash the models were inaccurate.

That's fucked up...
What's also fucked up is the rise in child molestation and domestic abuse due to alcoholism, keeping everyone inside their homes plus destroying their livelihoods.
 
LOL - they're getting so desperate to craft a narrative,
Trump voters!
Anti-vaxxers!
Climate change deniers!
These are the only types of people who are skeptical of unscientific government restrictions and the loss of their jobs!
A lot of conservatives believe in climate change... and still want their jobs, man.

It's not a terrible thing to want real economic and environmental change. A lot of conservatives realize they can't keep winning with a climate change denial strategy.

Can I ask you a question, would you personally object to a "let's engineer everyone having 6 feet of personal space and/or protective equipment for now so we can go back to work" plan?

What's also fucked up is the rise in child molestation and domestic abuse due to alcoholism, keeping everyone inside their homes plus destroying their livelihoods.
I unfortunately agree with you here. My personal life only got better somehow (like my love life... somehow...) but I imagine it's impacting a lot of men negatively.

btw if you don't like my "6 feet personal space" plan, would an age-segregated society be bad for a while? Like that way young/healthy people can go back to work for now?

How do you envision solving these problems JG? Your irony and hate of the "lockdown lovers" is obvious, can we get some serious input from you?
 
Yeah sure first thing I would do is stop misrepresenting the mortality rate and severity of this disease.
I would inform the people about how viruses work and I would instruct people as to how to strengthen their immunity.
Taking certain measures would also reduce the epidemics of diabetes, cancer, heart disease, autoimmune isssues.
I would take advice from doctors on the front lines as opposed to bureaucrats with financial and political interests which often run counter to public health.

So really that depends on what your definition of the problem is?
The problem with covid19 is governments and media stoking people with fear and their subsequent control overreaches.

And you know what's one of the worst things to leave you susceptible to a virus? FEAR
Being in a constant state of fight or flight redirects resources in the body that are naturally used to ward off viral infections.
 
Yeah, that's absolutely true (about anxiety making you more susceptible to illness. I think this was handled very poorly. I think we should have had adequate testing programs to identify who is sick, and quarantine those people, and educated people and told them to be safe, wear gloves and a mask, don't touch your face, keep 6 feet or more apart, avoid unnecessary public gathering (like concerts/shows) where you have little to no control over exposure risk, but done a better job with keeping people moving along with their lives. The most important part of that is adequate testing... the testing program has been a disaster, at least in the US. And the initial reaction was dismissive. If we had taken it seriously and begun preparing tests in large bulk when Wuhan was locked down, we could have rapidly tested large segments of the population like S Korea did and we could be seeing a different situation now. Instead we've been scrambling ever since it got going in earnest. I think the media has been the biggest problem, rather than the US government. We still don't really have lockdown here, there are curfews for businesses to be open but not for people to be out, still lots of nonessential businesses defying the order and the police have stated they are not going to punish anyone, that it's just a suggestion. I think the government has done a poor job in the ways I stated above, but the media has been drumming up 24/7 fear to sell headlines. The fear is causing the biggest problems right now. My friend's girlfriend is actually making more money right now than when she was working because the federal government is giving $600/week flat rate regardless of your wages, on top of state unemployment. Which is better than I was expecting to say the least.
 
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