Have YOU ever been to a psychic? Do YOU believe in telepathy?

[Mycophile]

I've been there to experience people I've known who had potentially prophetic dreams. My mother's had about 3, 2 in my lifetime. All similar to how you describe.

So don't get me wrong, I can absolutely believe that there could be more going on here. I'm not saying I absolutely don't believe it.

I just still have a degree of skepticism because I'm not sure it's really as statistically unlikely as you think.

Is it unlikely that someone would dream of someone being in an accident, then wake up and get a phone call that they'd been in an accident? Yes, in itself it's very unlikely.

But it has to be kept in its full context. There are an enormous number of bad things that can happen to someone. To have such a coincidence, you don't have to specifically dream of one particular event happening, you only need dream of potentially any kind of misfortune happening to any person you know, within a similar time frame, and be correct.

That's not quite as unlikely. The specific event itself is unlikely, but that any event like it could have happened may not be. A specific prophetic dream is quite a coincidence, but having any one any subject at all may not be. Especially if you're an anxious person. Or if the person is already sick to begin with.

I'm not saying that I believe it's all coincidence. I'm saying I don't know. I also don't like assuming that there can't be more mundane explanations that I'm not aware of. Because there's so little data to go on here.

All I have are anecdotes. That's enough for me to have an open mind. But it wouldn't be an open mind if I didn't continue to indulge the possibility that it may in fact be coincidental or that such a coincidence may not be as unlikely as it first appears.

Yeah, i mean i get what you are saying, but again, this wasn't ANYONE having ANYTHING bad happen to them at any time, it was one very specific person dying immediately after a prophetic dream THAT WAS ABOUT THAT PERSON AND THAT PERSON ONLY.

And also, the many many dreams of birds falling before 9/11 is a different unusual thing.

My mother is an expert of sorts in her field of Jungian psychoanlysis, and she doesn't believe in magic, but she's done her own ''research'' in her own way over a lifetime of experience with studying dreams and things of the sort so she is not some novice.

The famous prophetic dream that predicted the star of WW1 is also odd, though i'd look it up as i don't remember the details.

I am the opposite of you in that i'd prefer NOT to believe in a more simple and mundane explanation of things because I like to believe that there is more out there that we cannot fully explain and that humans may have abilities that we cannot explain yet.

That doesn't mean i want to believe in fairy tales, but I believe that there is so much we don't know of yet, and I am not one to believe that every single unusual event has a simple answer that can be wrapped up neatly in a bow.

i also don't believe the answers are usually supernatural, but I think that some of the explanations to some things that happen cannot yet be explained rationally by what we know now, but someday we will be able to.

200 years ago the internet would have been supernatural, so if we actually make it another 200 years, perhaps prophetic dreams will be no less unusual lol.

Anyways, interesting convo.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think using the argument that if we haven't managed to explain something scientifically by now, that it isn't real, is a rather arrogant viewpoint (no offense meant Jess ). Our understand of the nature of reality and the universe is far advanced over what it was even 50 years ago, of course, but it seems overwhelmingly likely we don't even have a clue how deep the rabbit hole goes, yet. Certainly many things that people have experienced, we simply do not understand yet. Not to say that telepathy is definitely possible, or that anything "supernatural" is definitely possible, but I find there to be a strong possibility that such things could be possible and that we just have not managed to explain or measure it yet.

Personally I have had a couple of experiences, most notably this year on New Year's Eve, that have pretty much convinced me we are a lot more connected than the scientific establishment believes we are, in a way that might be described as "supernatural". Of course, as Mycophile pointed out above, 200 years ago, the Internet , even the harnessing of electricity, would have seemed supernatural. Supernatural is just a word used to describe things people have experienced to seemed to experience that we have not discovered an explanation for.

 

[relex_author]

My friend recently told me that modern science now is quite accepting that telepathy could be real so I did a search... there are lots of articles

Here is one
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/inno...thic-communication-is-within-reach-180952868/

Or do a search on 'science accepts telepathy'

 

[relex_author]

I should say that I find the idea of mainstream science 'accepting' telepathy as real quite scary - this subject should be approached properly and carefully, the experience of telepathy can leave you feeling exposed, and is slightly unsafe, you want to be able to turn this kind of thing 'on' or 'off'. The way to do this is by opening or closing your third eye chakra, with meditation. Done.

 

[Yourbaker]

Evidence of telepathy exists in nature between schools of fish, birds and less obvious in mammal herds. In humanity we have replaced it with communications but the vestigial function still persists in the back of our minds.

I think trying to developer it by creating a binary language of flashes (the test method above) seems like a lot of work. Easier to just grab a phone.

I had a link to a story about telepathy and ancient Egyptian sarcophagus but I think the site has vanished. It said simply their opinion was the pyramids and sarcophagus where places where special people who either needed to communicate long distances or whose states of consciousness were being amplified across the humans in the area were placed to communicate.

I'm pretty ok with phones and I'm glad I don't have to travel to the nearest pyramid to call home. I do feel we need to pay attention to our footprint when we manufacture technology but my tablet is more efficient then my telepathy. Perhaps telepathy is a lot like calligraphy, very pretty but not very practical for humanity when we never flow in our society like nature does around us.

 

[JessFR]

I think using the argument that if we haven't managed to explain something scientifically by now, that it isn't real, is a rather arrogant viewpoint (no offense meant Jess ).

Sure. But the argument that if we haven't managed to observe something using scientific method in spite of repeated attempts to do so, then it probably isn't real. Is significantly better.

There's lots of phenomenons in science that we can observe but we don't have a comprehensive theory for.

Hell, our entire understanding of physics is still missing a unifying theory that explains both quantum and classical mechanics.

That's my issue. I find it implausible that if telepathy existed that we wouldn't have been able to observe it by now.

 

[Mycophile]

Evidence of telepathy exists in nature between schools of fish, birds and less obvious in mammal herds. In humanity we have replaced it with communications but the vestigial function still persists in the back of our minds.

I think trying to developer it by creating a binary language of flashes (the test method above) seems like a lot of work. Easier to just grab a phone.

I had a link to a story about telepathy and ancient Egyptian sarcophagus but I think the site has vanished. It said simply their opinion was the pyramids and sarcophagus where places where special people who either needed to communicate long distances or whose states of consciousness were being amplified across the humans in the area were placed to communicate.

I'm pretty ok with phones and I'm glad I don't have to travel to the nearest pyramid to call home. I do feel we need to pay attention to our footprint when we manufacture technology but my tablet is more efficient then my telepathy. Perhaps telepathy is a lot like calligraphy, very pretty but not very practical for humanity when we never flow in our society like nature does around us.

Rupert Sheldrake, the scientist, has explained that many forms of communication that we would consider ''telepathy'' DO exist in nature, and he explains other abilities that different animals have that are pretty nuts, and i read a book by him a while back that explains some of this stuff but forget many of the explanations.

For example, ants in an ant colony are very much ''telepathic'' in the sense that each one kind of acts as a different part of the body of the whole, but for humans this would seem implausible, and maybe it is or maybe it isn't.

I can't remember his explanations for other things but he also discusses how and why homing pigeons can find their way home through THOUSANDS of miles of storms when they can't even really see, how bats use sonar to figure out where they are going despite being blind, and how dogs can and have repeatedly found their ways home when hundreds or even THOUSANDS of miles away in areas they have never been.

I like the saying that ''today's science fiction is tomorrow's science fact'', and it often rings true.

 

[Mycophile]

Sure. But the argument that if we haven't managed to observe something using scientific method in spite of repeated attempts to do so, then it probably isn't real. Is significantly better.

There's lots of phenomenons in science that we can observe but we don't have a comprehensive theory for.

Hell, our entire understanding of physics is still missing a unifying theory that explains both quantum and classical mechanics.

That's my issue. I find it implausible that if telepathy existed that we wouldn't have been able to observe it by now.

Well, not that I really want to re-open the debate, but I guess I kind of am lol, but i don't really want to go on long with it...

What sort of bugged me is that you were saying you don't trust people's accounts of prophetic dreams like my mother's because ''people can easily remember things wrong'', when really, that would in no way explain away the situation I am talking about.

We are talking a situation with VERY limited factors, where the prophetic dream was written down upon waking and reported to a 3rd party, my father, BEFORE the death of my grandfather, where this didn't happen long ago so nothing is likely to be forgotten, involving a man who had been in the hospital ''dying'' for 2 years prior and could have died at any moment, and then my mother had the dream the night before he died and INSTANTLY knew when the phone rang that it meant my grandfather had passed.

Also, my mother ALWAYS writes down her dreams because she is a Jungian anaylst, she does it EVERY DAY WITHOUT FAIL and has for decades, and she'd never before had a dream like this one of my grandfather's death.

Memory does not factor in in this situation really.

It is hard fact that my mother had the dream the night before his passing, had never had such a dream before despite regularly recording her dreams, and that she told my father first, and that then he died.

It just isn't something that can be explained by ''not trusting people's accounts of their memories.''

Some things are like that, but there have been IMO far too many unexplained cases of prophetic dreams for me to think that there isn't SOMETHING going on, and that likely some day science will be able to explain it.

 

[JessFR]

Well, not that I really want to re-open the debate, but I guess I kind of am lol, but i don't really want to go on long with it...

What sort of bugged me is that you were saying you don't trust people's accounts of prophetic dreams like my mother's because ''people can easily remember things wrong'', when really, that would in no way explain away the situation I am talking about.

We are talking a situation with VERY limited factors, where the prophetic dreams was written down upon waking and reported to a 3rd party, my father, BEFORE the death of my grandfather, where this didn't happen long ago so nothing is likely to be forgotten, involving a man who had been in the hospital ''dying'' for 2 years prior and could have died at any moment, and then my mother had the dream the night before he died and INSTANTLY knew when the phone rang that it meant my grandfather had passed.

Memory does not factor in in this situation really.

It is hard fact that my mother had the dream the night before his passing, that she told my father first, and that then he died.

It just isn't something that can be explained by ''not trusting people's accounts of their memories.''

Some things are like that, but there have been IMO far too many unexplained cases of prophetic dreams for me to think that there isn't SOMETHING going on, and that likely some day science will be able to explain it.

There's just too many elements to this that I can't establish to have it mean much to me.

For instance, I don't know when your mother last saw your grandfather. It is by no means supernatural or unusual for people on the edge of death to give off behaviors or clues that signal that their death is imminent. We have evolved to pick up on all sorts of non verbal cues that can give us information we may not immediately realize.

If she visited him not long before his death, she may have subconsciously gotten the sense that he had deteriorated. And that then caused the dream. It's still a coincidence by a far far less impressive one.

Also, these kinds of coincidences are not impossible even just as pure coincidence. They're in fact inevitable. Coincidence will happen. Amazing unbelievable coincidence will happen. Even the most unlikely circumstances will eventually be virtually certain to happen.

And we aren't talking about specifically a coincidence of dreaming someone is about to die before they do. We are talking about any coincidence that could be explained as precondition.

But, putting all that aside, say it's not a coincidence and it's not explainable even if we knew all the circumstances. All that leaves us with is unexplained.

Precognition isn't inherently the answer when all other answers have failed. Precognition is at best the phenomenon, with answers and implications left unresolved.

 

[iridescentblack]

I really can't stand people who use body language as a means for justification.

 

[Xorkoth]

One entirely observable phenomenon (at least by strongly empathic people which I certainly am... hell I get sympathy pains when people talk about getting injured, it's really annoying) is literally feeling the emotions of others when they walk into a room. being able to detect states of mind in people. Sure it's not the same as telepathy but it does speak to the existence of a connection between individuals that goes beyond the 5 senses.

I had a schizphrenic friend in college (he became a friend eventually, he was very hard to be around), and freshman year, I remember multiple instances where me and some friends would be hanging out in a dorm room with the door open, down the hall from the main door that led into that wing of the building. People went in and out of that door all the time, but when this friend, who had an extremely intense/anxious energy, would open that door, we would all look up and look at each other and be like "shit Dan's coming", and sure enough, there he was. You could feel his presence from down the hall, well before line of sight was established.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

I could tell if my dad was mad by his foot steps.

Other than that, i'm extraordinarily bad at facial recognition memory and expressions and shit. I just assume peoples faces are what they normally do until proven otherwise.

 

[Mycophile]

There's just too many elements to this that I can't establish to have it mean much to me.

For instance, I don't know when your mother last saw your grandfather. It is by no means supernatural or unusual for people on the edge of death to give off behaviors or clues that signal that their death is imminent. We have evolved to pick up on all sorts of non verbal cues that can give us information we may not immediately realize.

If she visited him not long before his death, she may have subconsciously gotten the sense that he had deteriorated. And that then caused the dream. It's still a coincidence by a far far less impressive one.

Also, these kinds of coincidences are not impossible even just as pure coincidence. They're in fact inevitable. Coincidence will happen. Amazing unbelievable coincidence will happen. Even the most unlikely circumstances will eventually be virtually certain to happen.

And we aren't talking about specifically a coincidence of dreaming someone is about to die before they do. We are talking about any coincidence that could be explained as precondition.

But, putting all that aside, say it's not a coincidence and it's not explainable even if we knew all the circumstances. All that leaves us with is unexplained.

Precognition isn't inherently the answer when all other answers have failed. Precognition is at best the phenomenon, with answers and implications left unresolved.

As to your assumption, it had been several months since my mother had seen my grandfather, so no, it wasn't body language.

Coincidenes do happen, but in cases like this, and in many, PURE coincidence is IMO the less likely answer and far stranger answer. I am honestly not 100 percent sure that I even do believe in coincidence at all.

I mean, most of us agree that the butterfly effect exists, meaning one small movement on the other side of the earth effects something somewhere else far away....well, i am a big believer of the idea that what we see as coincidence is actually usually, if not always, caused by very specific factors lining up that we simply are not aware of, making them not actually coincidences at all, or just plain ''luck'', but actually some kind of grand design, not of god, which i probably don't believe in, but of nature itself.

I am 100 percent convinced that it was NOT coincidence, though i know you won't be.

And while precognition is not necessarily the only answer, why does the idea of precognition seem so inherently impossible to you?

With all the things we are capable of now that would have seemed like magic hundreds or thousands of years ago, why could it not be possible that precognition is in fact possible and that it can be scientifically explained but we just haven't been able to yet?

This is where we seem to differ;

You seem to want to believe, at least from the sounds of it, that all unexplained phenomenon can RIGHT NOW be explained by science, if only investigated deeply enough, whereas I on the other hand believe that IF humanity were to exist forever.....which is impossible, that most likely most of today's unexplained phenomenon would EVENTUALLY be able to be explained by science, but that it is just a matter of time and we haven't been able to come that far yet.

I mean, whether we are talking precognition or telepathy or any of the other unexplained phenomenon out there that exist right now, it is practically 100 percent certain that at least SOME of them we cannot explain currently, even were all of the world's best scientists to get together and dedicate their lives to it.

So i don't really know why it's hard to accept that certain unexplained phenomenon might not CURRENTLY be explainable, but might someday, and why it would be hard to live with that unknown factor.

As I mentioned in one of my other posts, the scientist Rupert Sheldrake has written about some crazy explanations for how ants actually ARE telepathic and can communicate as a colony, how homing pigeons can find their ways home through thousands of miles of storms, and how many dogs have found their way home when hundreds of miles away in places they have never been.

When we look at the super senses that many animals have it shouldn't seem that odd that perhaps humans could also be capable of some extraordinary things that we think we aren't capable of...

 

[relex_author]

One thing which is really good which I discovered and is good if you are feeling psychically exposed, is, get a small piece of dusty cobweb, rub it into a small ball and rub that in your third eye area.

 

[JessFR]

As to your assumption, it had been several months since my mother had seen my grandfather, so no, it wasn't body language.

Coincidenes do happen, but in cases like this, and in many, PURE coincidence is IMO the less likely answer and far stranger answer. I am honestly not 100 percent sure that I even do believe in coincidence at all.

I mean, most of us agree that the butterfly effect exists, meaning one small movement on the other side of the earth effects something somewhere else far away....well, i am a big believer of the idea that what we see as coincidence is actually usually, if not always, caused by very specific factors lining up that we simply are not aware of, making them not actually coincidences at all, or just plain ''luck'', but actually some kind of grand design, not of god, which i probably don't believe in, but of nature itself.

I am 100 percent convinced that it was NOT coincidence, though i know you won't be.

And while precognition is not necessarily the only answer, why does the idea of precognition seem so inherently impossible to you?

With all the things we are capable of now that would have seemed like magic hundreds or thousands of years ago, why could it not be possible that precognition is in fact possible and that it can be scientifically explained but we just haven't been able to yet?

This is where we seem to differ;

You seem to want to believe, at least from the sounds of it, that all unexplained phenomenon can RIGHT NOW be explained by science, if only investigated deeply enough, whereas I on the other hand believe that IF humanity were to exist forever.....which is impossible, that most likely most of today's unexplained phenomenon would EVENTUALLY be able to be explained by science, but that it is just a matter of time and we haven't been able to come that far yet.

I mean, whether we are talking precognition or telepathy or any of the other unexplained phenomenon out there that exist right now, it is practically 100 percent certain that at least SOME of them we cannot explain currently, even were all of the world's best scientists to get together and dedicate their lives to it.

So i don't really know why it's hard to accept that certain unexplained phenomenon might not CURRENTLY be explainable, but might someday, and why it would be hard to live with that unknown factor.

As I mentioned in one of my other posts, the scientist Rupert Sheldrake has written about some crazy explanations for how ants actually ARE telepathic and can communicate as a colony, how homing pigeons can find their ways home through thousands of miles of storms, and how many dogs have found their way home when hundreds of miles away in places they have never been.

When we look at the super senses that many animals have it shouldn't seem that odd that perhaps humans could also be capable of some extraordinary things that we think we aren't capable of...

I think perhaps you've misunderstood what I'm trying to say or I haven't explained it adequately...

I completely believe in the butterfly effect so to speak. Or chaos theory to use the mathematics term. But I don't see that it's either here nor there as far as "coincidence" goes.

The whole world can be set in stone, with absolutely everything that will ever happen already set in motion, and all events being caused by preceding events as part of a chaotic system. And none of that excludes coincidence.

Coincidence is simply a label for where the event, the death and the apparent precognition, were not casually linked. It doesn't have to be random for it to be a coincidence.

I also believe completely that there are a great many phenomenon we haven't yet been able to explain in the world.

My skepticism of precognition is not because we haven't been able to explain how it happens but because we haven't been able to observe to my satisfaction that is does in fact happen at a frequency and accuracy that is of statistically significant deviation from random chance. Or to put it simpler, it's the lack of evidence for the phenomenon existing that causes me to doubt rather than the lack of an explanation for how it works if it did exist.

We don't need to be able to explain how it works to observe that it exists.

And it is an absolute certainty that coincidences, even amazingly unlikely coincidences will happen. If you take even a 1 in a trillion chance, and give it a trillion attempts, that's 50% odds it'll happen. All coincidence is only unlikely in a relative sense of the word.

And with so many people, and so many ways in which apparent precognition could happen by coincidence, amazingly unlikely coincidences that appear to be precognition are not only likely, but inevitable.

Now we absolutely could test it and determine that precognition as a phenomenon exists beyond that which can be explained by chance within a reasonable margin. And if and when such tests are conducted, come back positive, and then also repeated and come back positive. At that point I will believe precognition is far more likely than not to exist. And at that point we can begin to try and explain it.

But I haven't seen any evidence yet that demonstrates precognition to the scientific standards I just mentioned. And it's not that it hasn't been attempted. Now that doesn't prove cognition doesn't exist. It might exist in some form we haven't tested for. We may not have a good enough sample size for how rare it is.

But given the inevitability of coincidence, and all the various non precognitive explanations both that I can think of and that may exist that I don't know of. I'm not inclined to believe in it until better, more scientific evidence arrives.

Don't get me wrong here I do think it's plausible enough to be worth investigating further, I'm just not ready to believe until more rigorous evidence is collected.

What I want is data. I want numbers. I want a table of people who's dreams were documented, who's lives have been logged by a third party, and where a blind observer has compared the two, along with a separate group who's dreams and events are made up as a control. Then when that shows statistically significant evidence, and can be repeated.

Then I'll be convinced.

 

[iridescentblack]

One thing which is really good which I discovered and is good if you are feeling psychically exposed, is, get a small piece of dusty cobweb, rub it into a small ball and rub that in your third eye area.

That reminds me of a radio show I heard years ago where the talk show host was talking about wrapping string around a wooden wand and aiming it at your third eye.

 

[iridescentblack]

One entirely observable phenomenon (at least by strongly empathic people which I certainly am... hell I get sympathy pains when people talk about getting injured, it's really annoying) is literally feeling the emotions of others when they walk into a room. being able to detect states of mind in people. Sure it's not the same as telepathy but it does speak to the existence of a connection between individuals that goes beyond the 5 senses.

I had a schizphrenic friend in college (he became a friend eventually, he was very hard to be around), and freshman year, I remember multiple instances where me and some friends would be hanging out in a dorm room with the door open, down the hall from the main door that led into that wing of the building. People went in and out of that door all the time, but when this friend, who had an extremely intense/anxious energy, would open that door, we would all look up and look at each other and be like "shit Dan's coming", and sure enough, there he was. You could feel his presence from down the hall, well before line of sight was established.

Some of the worst vibes I get come from so-called normal people. Of course, I've taught myself not to operate solely on vibes because people are perfectly capable of change. Do you suspect this "feeling" had something to do with the schizophrenic guy, but was not necessarily Him? According to Arnold Mindell, author of the Shaman's Body a lot of schizophrenics have a demon. I'm unsure if this would be like a daimon, though, but according to Arnie the demon can be trained to serve their master. I'm wondering if it was something like that... Probably a loaded question. Not a lot of people can peer into someone and say, "Yup, there's the demon, right there."

 

[Xorkoth]

Some of the worst vibes I get come from so-called normal people. Of course, I've taught myself not to operate solely on vibes because people are perfectly capable of change. Do you suspect this "feeling" had something to do with the schizophrenic guy, but was not necessarily Him? According to Arnold Mindell, author of the Shaman's Body a lot of schizophrenics have a demon. I'm unsure if this would be like a daimon, though, but according to Arnie the demon can be trained to serve their master. I'm wondering if it was something like that... Probably a loaded question. Not a lot of people can peer into someone and say, "Yup, there's the demon, right there."

It was his energy, I think was because he felt that way and had huge amounts of anxiety and paranoia, and you could feel it from him. I mean I'm inclined to believe that I can feel the emotions/energy of people because it's what they're feeling/exuding, before I would add an additional factor in of it being caused by a demon. I have been in places where I felt an intensely negative presence, as did other people who had been to that place, I'm not prepared to say I don't believe in external entities that we have no understanding of that might attach themselves to people or places. I just don't have any reason to believe that my friend I'm talking about didn't experience that level of distress simply due to mental illness and past trauma (he did experience very extreme childhood trauma).

 

[Gormur]

I think using the argument that if we haven't managed to explain something scientifically by now, that it isn't real, is a rather arrogant viewpoint (no offense meant Jess ). Our understand of the nature of reality and the universe is far advanced over what it was even 50 years ago, of course, but it seems overwhelmingly likely we don't even have a clue how deep the rabbit hole goes, yet. Certainly many things that people have experienced, we simply do not understand yet. Not to say that telepathy is definitely possible, or that anything "supernatural" is definitely possible, but I find there to be a strong possibility that such things could be possible and that we just have not managed to explain or measure it yet.

Personally I have had a couple of experiences, most notably this year on New Year's Eve, that have pretty much convinced me we are a lot more connected than the scientific establishment believes we are, in a way that might be described as "supernatural". Of course, as Mycophile pointed out above, 200 years ago, the Internet , even the harnessing of electricity, would have seemed supernatural. Supernatural is just a word used to describe things people have experienced to seemed to experience that we have not discovered an explanation for.

I had an experience just a few hours ago walking home. I heard this talking in my left ear. That was a first. Then i somehow realized it was my brain and i said go away
With my will not out-loud voice, haha. I didn't know i had two voices though, so that was interesting

 

[Foreigner]

Staunch proponents of modern science are usually wholly ignorant of the contemporaneous nature of their world view. They don't even see it as a world view, just "the view". What they fail to understand is that throughout the centuries, the world view has undergone radical changes. A really interesting book I recently read, called "The Elizabethan World Picture" by Tillyard, expounds greatly upon The Chain Being as the world view of the Elizabethan Renaissance. Scientists of the day weren't afraid to relate their experiments to possible higher orders of being or consciousness. There was no real conflict with religion or spirit, the debate was mostly centered around how it all fit together. It's a shame that those explorations ended. We could've really used those scientists staying on board to help us figure out some things.

Since then, science has become more and more parsed into pure materialism, and has become the hegemonic view. It's because technological wonders are so convincing of its epistemology that people will swallow it whole. If they can create magical inventions then their view of the universe must be the most correct one, right? People believe in it so much that they are no longer developing their other faculties of seeing and perceiving, so the world of spirit is becoming more and more removed from us. It's a real danger because it means that without being in touch with spirit, we will put all our faith into the human world of form, and our world is imperfect and fragile. It can only lead to calamity. The current world view is so hegemonic that people have forgotten it's just one world view among many. It's treated as the only one that all things must be proven toward. This is folly.

Science in its older forms had zero hesitation about trying to explain and experiment with so-called paranormal phenomena. Science in its current form won't even try to test these things and simply calls them impossible, because it is purely material reductionist in nature.

My advice is to ignore and dismiss contemporary science when discussing these subjects. I love science and am trained in the scientific method, but its contemporary form is utterly useless at addressing these subjects, especially in the western, Christianized nations which have been so heavily influenced by the dogma of religion. Science is not qualified and this is not its purview. Every time a scientist comes into one of these threads and claims that if science doesn't know it already then it's not knowable, it's no different than trying to teach mathematics to a tweeting bird. You could hire the best expert in the universe at mathematics but the bird will never have the cognitive capacity to understand. Contemporary science doesn't lack cognition, but it has shut itself off, as an institution, from things that human beings know to be real and true. It did this as of the so-called Age of Enlightenment, which was really a great dumbing down of human perception. Anything that science deemed as hogwash got relegated "over there somewhere" to the human school of religion. Our society has been compartmentalized ever since.