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Conspiracy Theories (“Alternative Research”)

Exactly, I have spoken with someone who was in a concentration camp and survived. Many people have family members who recently passed or a few who are still alive who were affected by the Holocaust and/or in camps. Is TripSitter's family in on the conspiracy to invent an atrocity that affected entire nations of people? It's frightening that there are people who legitimately buy into the narrative that it didn't happen because if we deny it happened we are doomed to repeat it. That's why people get upset when you deny it. That's also why it's hurtful to deny it, and why people call it bigotry (especially when combined with a narrative of "Jews control the world we need to stop them" - this was Hitler's narrative), and why we don't allowit at Bluelight.

It wasn't even that long ago that it happened. Sweeping it under the rug is terribly ignorant at best and intentionally harmful at worst.
 
^

That happens though, sweeping under the rug, about everything.


Do you know that high schools are ceasing teaching history, social studies, anything that could be offensive or touchy. It's been in the papers, no one cares or will be listened to so parents will be educating their kids on this like parents from the 20s.



It's complete bullshit, totally pathetic and it's important to have some timeline of human (and esrth/universe) history.

Holocaust deniers can deny away but also get stuffed, obv it happened and anyone offended should realise they should harden up a little to that, being upset and shutting it down stops conversation but doesn't fix anything.


I dont think its a great idea to have any one religion more protected from any dimwit who would bang on about jews with stereotypes than any other religion as it's counterproductive, the holocaust did happen, generations ago, since then Muslims have had their thing with the terrorists and the Catholics with the priest pedophollia, maybe it is time to just stop making separate rules for Jews as opposed to anyone else?

History should be taught, what happened happened .

Weird world It is, talking is too touchy but hey Israel with their arms and guns vs kids throwing rocks?

Nah, that's shitty and while the holocaust was shit indeed, there's no excuse for how Israel behaves and the lives taken since then , being labelled antisemitic is a real problem discussing it though.





Holocaust happened, there were far more victims of war over the world that tend to get forgotten in the holocaust debate though.


Mates that have lived in Austria etc have said there is no talk of the war, the countries who sided and were overcome by Hitler are EMBARASSED.

Well good, that was embarrassing, so don't mention what everyone knows and soon generations will exist that were never taught history, what could possibly go wrong?
 
The shrinking chocolate bars and biscuits in the uk is one of the biggest conspiraces of all time! no joke! when I was 15 you got twice as much in a normal bar as you do now and for what? so the companies can triple their profits the sneaky gits
 
Nah, that's shitty and while the holocaust was shit indeed, there's no excuse for how Israel behaves and the lives taken since then

I agree with that for sure. I don't support Israel's behavior these days but I do support the right for Jews to have a nation.

I don't really even believe that Holocaust denial necessarily makes you an antisemite, but I do think it's extremely ignorant and the vast majority of people claiming it are antisemitic. It's usually used as an excuse to hate Jews, along with the global control/money idea. Like all bigotry, antisemitism needs some reasons people can tell themselves to justify it. And like all bigotry, it is rooted in the need to blame a group of people for one's problems in life (my life is getting worse over time, why? Oh I see, it's the damn Jews' fault! Now I can ignore the real reasons, such as the actions of the leaders of my own country, and my own decisions and patterns of thought).

Holocaust denial attempts to rewrite history. I have no problem not allowing talk of it to happen here as it is dangerous to ignore history for the reasons you stated. Additionally it is very painful for people whose families were affected by it to come on here and see people trying to deny that pain is real.
 
I have a problem with calling it the holocaust. It means, apparently "whole burnt offering".

I don't recall anything in the narrative about anyone offering, as in a religious sense, a sacrifice (completely burnt, to ashes, consumed by God), to any God- The non-Jewish Germans certainly were not Jewish, and how can it be considered a "sacrifice" if they-Jews were considered their enemy? I also do not think they were all burnt, completely, the whole of them.

The term didn't even begin until sometime later, to describe what happened, maybe in the 1960s- It was popularized first for this specific set of happenings, after some major news magazine used it, IIRC. Jews before this were more likely to refer to it as a Shoah, meaning catastrophe - which makes a hell of a lot more sense.

So in this sense one could call me a Holocaust "Denier". I don't even have to dispute what did or did not happen, to be one. I disagree with the terminology. I deny the applicability of the term for this circumstance.

However, it does have religious significance. To them. As does the 6 million number.
 
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I lost family members fighting the Germans and I don't know if the Jewish concentration camps were known about.

I do have my relatives letters and journals , none mention anything about it so I doubt anything could have been done earlier.

They were not top brass so who knows.

Germans were hated for ages but they seem to have moved on.
 
I have a problem with calling it the holocaust. It means, apparently "whole burnt offering".

I don't recall anything in the narrative about anyone offering, as in a religious sense, a sacrifice (completely burnt, to ashes, consumed by God), to any God- The non-Jewish Germans certainly were not Jewish, and how can it be considered a "sacrifice" if they-Jews were considered their enemy? I also do not think they were all burnt, completely, the whole of them.

The term didn't even begin until sometime later, to describe what happened, maybe in the 1960s- It was popularized first for this specific set of happenings, after some major news magazine used it, IIRC. Jews before this were more likely to refer to it as a Shoah, meaning catastrophe - which makes a hell of a lot more sense.

So in this sense one could call me a Holocaust "Denier". I don't even have to dispute what did or did not happen, to be one. I disagree with the terminology. I deny the applicability of the term for this circumstance.

You're free to use whatever meaning of words you like. And you may even be right about the words origin (I say may because I've never bothered to look into its etymology).

But the fact is languages and words evolve and change. That may have been its earlier meaning, but it would have developed before that too.

And the fact is the way it's used today is pretty universal. And I for one intend to keep using it the way it's generally understood.

As social consensus is the closest thing to a true authority on the meaning of words.
 
Muslim/Islam means "submission to the God", essentially. People, non-"Muslim", will use this word, pretty lightly, referencing an identity only. It is the same as a group telling you they are [called] "I AM RIGHT" and you saying "THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE RIGHT" to acknowledge them but then, turning your back on them and doing something else, always wrong, like you don't really believe they're right. Like yea, "you're right, but I'm going to do it this way - another way other than right". It feels like disrespect, like you're just entertaining them, like they're just children (like people tend to often take religion, a childish topic, and you're free to have your beliefs...). "Why yes Charlie you ARE a velociraptor!"

I think it's disrespectful to call them Muslim, and to admit their religion is Islam, if one does not plan to submit/be-that/adhere. From our, agnostic, or Not-their-faith perspective, it is actually more respectable to call them "Mohammedans". And this is what they were called, at least some of the time, now - but now, some think that that is rude.

I find it tricky to angle around this. I sometimes still use the term, but I am often quick to adjust around it. It has come from a lot of personal-ponderment. It's not as if society has really known the way, the whole way through. I don't trust others.

George Orwell said something about words- I wish I hadn't lost that. I will think about it, but he was pretty much on my same page. How we can become so lazy with them, and how that's not good.
 
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Yep I should say Islam and my bad, I dont see any negative connotations in either , not religious personally so apologies if I fucked up, so on so forth.
 
Is everyone just gonna pretend that the chocolate bar conspiracy is not happening wake up people
 
Germans were hated for ages but they seem to have moved on.

After they sufficiently hate(d) themselves.

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He said, "Because hands were lifted up against the throne of the LORD, the LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation."

As White people who may identify with German people feel collective guilt for events associated with them, by the greater world, I wouldn't be surprised if they also, some of them start to feel resentment for what is expected of them now, and may choose to identify even greater with "white" people; And even though so many thousands of "white" people back then spent their lives fighting for a cause, to in-effect save these people, "White"-identity is/remains an enemy of their interest.

Nowadays, there are many, often Jewish - but let's not blame the entire group of individuals, who openly call for "white genocide", jokingly, but they don't not mean it, or for policies or expectations that will make that a reality (mass immigration, open borders, break-down of the family unit)--and deny that whiteness even exists as a useful/meaningful separation from others. There's a lot of "propaganda" out there. The Hart-Celler Act of 1965 in the United States, which has led to demographic reengineering of the landscape of our society, was spearheaded by Jews, who wanted to get Jews out of Eastern Europe. In-effect, with them, came all sorts of others, which disrupted the national identity (confuses direction). This is one way that they can "destroy Amalek"; by destroying their ability to think as a nation. They have to - if they are religiously "Jewish", follow the 613 commandments, and one of them is to destroy Amalek, which can only be symbolically followed now - but it does say from generation to generation. White people are Amalek; Palestinians are Amalek. The ability for these entities to think as separate nations should be destroyed. They should all submit to Israel.

They are a culture, of critique; they exist as sort of a part of the rest of the European masses, but are ever-different. When the "Muslim" invaders came into Spain, they were met with arms open by many-a-Jew. It was context of the situation. In that situation, the Jew was the outsider, and somewhat living on the outskirts, not finely woven into the main fabric of society. The Jew is often a middle-man, or has been, in European and other history, other than when they were in the area of Palestine. They were middle-men, with no country of their own, living exiled from any Nation-State of their own. So a minority to feel less less-powerful, naturally makes alliances for similar causes, with others, such as Blacks, and "Muslims", especially while living in other states, with other main-core identities. They naturally keep the door open for others. One can't really blame them. They exist here, are sort of like us, but are not quite of us. They can openly joke about white genocide, and they can promote things like...saying race-mixing is the future. That white people that want to preserve their sense of togetherness that they have, their ability to "distinguish" anything for themselves, is viewed as "crazy" to these people. Meanwhile, in Israel, you can't even get married unless you're both Jewish.

The Good Nations of the world? Only Israel. All other people should be encouraged to melt away their boundaries- Be an open world, of sheep.

They have this separation, about them. They - in my opinion - should be separated, like their God says they should be. Their separation allows them to not feel a full-part of Germany, France, England, Denmark, Poland, any people not of their own- They're Jews, eternal outsiders here. Our lands are just hotels to them. Why would they care what happened to it, or the identity as it is identified to mainly another? They can be sort of a part, but aren't quite fully. So they can critique this part that they they feel sort of close to - that they have garnered in privileges from being close to... I don't really think they know what they do. They're nothing special; it's just the context/situation, that allows them this special place, where they can feel like they're able to critique.

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Millions died fighting in WWII, and for what? To defend a race that feels this way about them. ? Not to say all. But they do work for their group interests, just by existing.

If you think you're not a racist, ask yourself, do you feel more shame for white racism, than for the "injustice" perpetuated through other societies? You probably feel more identity with it. And that identity - these people want to end/destroy. It's in the way. "You" should be "killed" (even if that doesn't mean literal biological death- You're welcome to breed away...maybe with them, maybe with a Muslim-invader).

Even if I might use my faculties of reason/logic to discern that's not...completely a Jewish Conspiracy to destroy and/or enslave us, that it's at least in some part a natural process, in the state(s) of things, I would say there is enough mounting evidence that many...intelligent ones have been for it, and the situation is being milked/capitalized-upon. And there is at least enough out there - for white supremacists to support an idea of a narrative of their extinction perpetuated at the hands of Jews/Jewish-identity.

It does them no service to flat-out deny that Jews are promoting "genocide" of whites. There are, in-fact, many, who do, even if the spelling isn't immediately recognized as that word.

This one is also a Jew - A "racism expert" as she likes to claim, and a teacher of students:

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If you're a white person, better think twice about having a successful family if it's with another white person + creating white people, for thinking about what's best for them. Better consider the other, before your family- White man.

I for one have no interest in dismantling "white supremacy". I say show me another option, and I'll consider it; for which none of you have.
 
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I love how people will find a few quotes from extremists and pretend that it means everyone from the groups those people belong to feels the same way they do. Guess what? I've known and been friends with plenty of Jews, and not one of them expressed sentiments like what you've posted above.

I have another option besides "white supremacy"... regard everyone equally. Stop looking at race. We're all people. If white people hadn't tried to colonize the entire world at the expense of everyone else, the world would be a different place today. You think the attitudes other people have towards white people has nothing to do with the past actions of white people? "Supremacy" indicates you want white people to be on top. I disagree with this, even though I'm white. Maybe you think that's crazy... I just think I care about other people. I'm not afraid to accept someone else who doesn't look like me and whose culture is different than mine. If everyone did that, we wouldn't have the problems we do.

Have you ever had any friends who weren't white? Have you ever actually known anyone who wasn't white? I mean like actually known them personally?
 
Is everyone just gonna pretend that the chocolate bar conspiracy is not happening wake up people

It is happening, but I feel kinda bad for the chocolate makers at the same time.

They're kinda fucked either way. Keep em big or make em bigger and the health nazis bitch. Make them smaller and you and I bitch.

The real problem is they don't reduce the price when they reduce the size.
 
To Xorkoth. Yes. I also have Jewish people in my extended family (non-blood, directly, but my blood has somewhat close to me mixed with theirs). I understand these are "extremist" views (including ones I express about separations), often-times, and most people are simply people, dealing with people as people. Most of us, I have found, are fairly easy going enough. It's not really about hate. I'm also not certain I'm not attracted to certain Jewish women.

It's complicated, though.

I understand them though- I understand why they would support more "open borders" initiatives, especially where they live as a minority- Not in Israel. If I hated them for how they may act, politically, then I would have to hate nature. I understand them, and I understand how I might also act the way they do - I simply see it as conflict, for us. Again, I don't really care why they might have it out for us- I can understand, but that doesn't change the reality that they will not be quite with us.

There is some research that was done, that actually showed that Jewish people polled voted more in favor of a policy that harmed whites, such as affirmative action, if it was specified that it would result in fewer opportunities for whites - for these to be given to others. They voted more in favor, for that. I'll find it. I'm not saying I don't understand why they might feel this way - I'm saying I care more about us, than them, and that makes total sense. I say, I don't want to be a victim by letting another group, that doesn't value us, take the reins. I don't trust. I might understand why a dog acts aggressive, if I know it's history, of abuse; that doesn't make me trust the dog with my small child.

The framing may be a little complicated. Perhaps it's not out of spite - but they are, according to this poll/study, one-percent more likely to be for affirmative action if it is said that it will result in fewer opportunities for whites, than if this is not stipulated. While it could be explained in other ways, Jews are the only group to actually increase support, if it stipulated that it would result in fewer opportunities for *whites. Every other group decreased support (blacks very dramatically so). Yea, it's not much, but it's there.

*I also wonder if the results are effected - I imagine it's likely - by the fact of some Jews possibly identifying as "white". Many don't. Some do. Some do in ways, but not like a non-Jewish "white" person might.

+As for my saying I have no desire for dismantling "white supremacy", my being for it is at least in some part informed by an opposition such as the likes of people who demand that, essentially with what they say is white supremacy, that white people consciously mix with others, specifically trying to, or giving resources away to others, like 'racism expert' Jessi from New York who claims white people having white children that they 'want the best for' is supporting white supremacy; If this means 'white supremacy' to them, my continuing to exist in this world, I am a 'white supremacist'. I've been put into a corner, by opposition. I see no good reason to submit. They attack life and are acting ravenous.

I understand there is a specific definition. Idealism aside, I can't say I'm not one, by this definition. But the opposition has weaponized the term and applied it to basically any white person acting in their own interests, or even if they simply prefer being with people more like them. I am a White Supremacist like a Jew is a Jewish Supremacist or Muslim may be an Islamic Supremacist. It's more complicated than that, and subject to change/context, but for right now, I'm definitely not on their (they who use the political- weaponized terms, attacking my identity... Expecting something due to it) side, because I don't think they're on mine.

To them - whites preferring "whites" amounts to white supremacy. And they consider that that by default is evil. Meanwhile, they also, in some sense can be said to also prefer being around whites; I mean you don't see whites rushing to take advantage of the great living spaces and opportunities, really anywhere other than other white places, as a trend. Everyone is allowed to, even if it is not specifically whites that draw them - it is by some nature whites that draw them, prefer living among whites - except white people (that would make them racists, white supremacists..."Nazis"...automatic "evil").
 
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Seeing the recent antisemitic activity in BL and elsewhere, I think it’s important to keep in mind, what Sartre said about antisemites:

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

In other words: Don’t feed the fascist trolls
 
I’m trying to wrap my head around that somehow someone could believe that the Jews orchestrated the Holocaust to get Israel. 8(

Or something. Honestly, I half-read the comment and just decided to post a response later. And now is later and I’m still fairly stunned.

I’m not a supporter of the Israeli policies regarding the Palestinians, but then I also don’t equate the Jewish people exclusively with Israel, nor do I feel that one has to be psychotically pro- or anti- Israel.

UGH.
 
I’m trying to wrap my head around that somehow someone could believe that the Jews orchestrated the Holocaust to get Israel. 8(

Or something. Honestly, I half-read the comment and just decided to post a response later. And now is later and I’m still fairly stunned.

I’m not a supporter of the Israeli policies regarding the Palestinians, but then I also don’t equate the Jewish people exclusively with Israel, nor do I feel that one has to be psychotically pro- or anti- Israel.

UGH.
So It’s this one:

It’s a conspiracy theory. Which I thought Was the title of the post and the particular topic was being discussed so I joined.

Anti Semitic 😂😂😂
Not at all

I just read something on the subject I thought others might find interesting and it actually sounded like something I’ve seen many countries do on many levels, not just on this issue.

You don’t need to be racist, or bias against any culture or people to believe their government does things, bad things to win popular opinion.
Distrust for leaders of state does not make one anti Semitic lol
I didn’t even weigh INTO the debate about who’s land it is, I chose no side.

Propaganda has been used to control us for centuries. It’s not new to the Jews.
That’s not even conspiracy, it’s fact.
It’s as old as the Romans.


I’ll delete the post. Apologies for misunderstanding the thread and breaking the rules
 
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So It’s this one:

It’s a conspiracy theory. Which I thought Was the title of the post and the particular topic was being discussed so I joined.

Anti Semitic 😂😂😂
Not at all

I just read something on the subject I thought others might find interesting and it actually sounded like something I’ve seen many countries do on many levels, not just on this issue.

You don’t need to be racist, or bias against any culture or people to believe their government does things, bad things to win popular opinion.
Distrust for leaders of state does not make one anti Semitic lol
I didn’t even weigh INTO the debate about who’s land it is, I chose no side.

Propaganda has been used to control us for centuries. It’s not new to the Jews.
That’s not even conspiracy, it’s fact.
It’s as old as the Romans.


I’ll delete the post. Apologies for misunderstanding the thread and breaking the rules
Your post is an idea, which is within the rules, but it’s definitely a controversial one that easily pitches into something ugliness.

And it’s not on you, but we’ve had some nasty anti-Semitic rhetoric in here that just took the cake.
 
You don’t need to be racist, or bias against any culture or people to believe their government does things, bad things to win popular opinion.
Distrust for leaders of state does not make one anti Semitic lol

Yeah the government does bad things. That should be something we can all agree on. But believing some kind of secret government of the Jews orchestrated the Shoah to get Palestine in returnis far beyond that. Believing that a group of influential persons would send the majority of their own people into a genocide is just batshit insane. Thinking that this was done only to later get reimbursed with some land, that is antisemitic. I don't really know what to say. This is some next-level antisemitism
 
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