EADD Heroin thread v.XXIV -- welcome back, PinkPapaver!

[Ganjcat]

Got in a fight with an old associate from school earlier he got a cheapshop he came up to me talking shit then out of nowhere cheap shots me then I wanted to kill him but I could barely see straight I was still standing though so the pussy ran off my family had a problem with his family 3 years back he used to bully me actually I think he might have damaged the side of my jaw I got a weird feeling in my back teeth near where he punched me gonna lay down put some ice on it, it barely hurts im good with pain ive been punched full on in the face a lot and not felt it but the pussy got me where my teeth have rotted a bit I don't think he could have hit me in a better epot

 

[Squeaky]

Hello Everyone,

I've not posted in a helluva long time, I still lurk now and again as Bluelight continues to be my 'go to' place regarding anything drug related. So, apologies for my absence and coming here for advice without much input for awhile; but, it's been a tough few years - drug use increased, balancing some kind of normality in life and work, family etc, scraping enough to pay bills, but also afford a drug habit for myself and girlfriend... it takes up yer time!

Anyway... I've been on H for almost 4 years now, my girlfriend for 3. The first year I was snorting and dabbling with smoking, eventually I became a full-time chaser. I never thought I'd pick up the needle, but it eventually happened just a few months ago. On a plus side, it's been a major wake up call for me, it's made me realise how much my life, and my girlfriends life, has spiralled out of control. We were living in bubble for a few years, now we're stabbing ourselves 4 times daily - I seem to find a vein okay, but it's been very difficult for my girlfriend, which is the thing that scares me the most, her arms, the constant pain etc., I feel like we're doing damage to her. I weigh out every shot we take, we use clean works every-time, I'm quite OCD that way, but enough is enough now.

We've been on subs before via maintenance, plus trying ourselves to induct, but the whole 24hr waiting to induct thing we find extremely difficult - so I've been reading about the Bernese Method where H and sub use is overlapped until it meets in the middle, avoiding PWD and the need to be in WD for 24hrs.

For anyone who has ever tried this way, and it's worked, I would be grateful if you would give your thoughts on my plan below:

Day 1 - 0.25mg Bupe (SL) + 1.4g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 2 - 0.25mg Bupe (SL) + 1.2g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 3 - 0.5mg Bupe (SL) + 1g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 4 - 1mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + 0.8g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 5 - 2mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + 0.8g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 6 - 3mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + 0.5g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 7 - 6mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + First day of no H
Day 8 - 8mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + Second day of no H

The idea is to micro-dose Bupe, as it has a longer half life than H it will build in your system, but as you are taking small doses at first it will avoid PWD, plus the need to wait 24hrs in pain. On day 7 if I feel fine I will not bother upping the dose to 8mg, I could even lower it and play around until I feel fine on the lowest dose.

Has anyone tried this and been successful? I's been attempted in Sweden (I think), you can Google the reports online. Some folk have mentioned it on Bluelight before, but they seem to start at higher doses than recommended which would lead to PWD.

Cheers, any input would be much appreciated!

I have done the same transitioning from oxy (300 mg/day) to Loperamide. Zero wds. When I do it, i start with my full daily dose of lope and my full daily dose of oxy for two days(no taper on either). On day 3 or 4 I just quit oxy and have only minor wds.

 

[Jabberwocky]

hey squeaky could you tell me about this lope tapper, I'm in day 3 of withdrawal, I tappered from 1000mg+ tramadol to 300 (ocasionally dabbling with gear and oxy but no problem with those) , but I did 600mg on the last day before throwing all the shit away, I still shit a lot, have mild stomach ache and brain zaps. could you tell me a proper dose an taper plan? or at least if it is even worth it? I'm not in a heavy heavy withdrawal so idk if I should do it like that or continue cold turkey.

 

[MUSHET]

I have done a 2 week taper on methadone that works , BUT you need to be just on gear with no methadone in your system when you start

Thanks for replying, but I'm aiming to get onto subs by tapering the subs up while tapering the gear down... once I'm stable on subs then I might decide to taper them down.

Hi Mushet, welcome back. I can't comment on your plan as I've never used buprenorphine. But I'd just like to congratulate you on having the sense to realise where your lives are heading if you carry on. I'll leave it there to let more qualified people answer your question, but I really hope it works out for you and your lady. All the best...

Thanks FUBAR. Yeah it was fun while it lasted, but the 'fun' part is outweighed by the negatives now.

I have done the same transitioning from oxy (300 mg/day) to Loperamide. Zero wds. When I do it, i start with my full daily dose of lope and my full daily dose of oxy for two days(no taper on either). On day 3 or 4 I just quit oxy and have only minor wds.

Cheers, thing is... if I start with a full dose of subs along with the H it will throw me into severe PWD.

 

[Squeaky]

hey squeaky could you tell me about this lope tapper, I'm in day 3 of withdrawal, I tappered from 1000mg+ tramadol to 300 (ocasionally dabbling with gear and oxy but no problem with those) , but I did 600mg on the last day before throwing all the shit away, I still shit a lot, have mild stomach ache and brain zaps. could you tell me a proper dose an taper plan? or at least if it is even worth it? I'm not in a heavy heavy withdrawal so idk if I should do it like that or continue cold turkey.

Im no doctor, so dont be pissed if this doesnt work for you.
Lope seems to build up in my system over 48 hours. Monday nights dose is combining with everything on Tuesday and 1/2 of Wednesday to equal the total lope in my system. The dose that works for me is about 1/2 mg per day lope for every 1 mg per day oxy. (Maybe each mg of Tramadol would be more like 1/4 mg per day of lope??) It takes 4 hours to start working, and 48 hours for it to reach full potential with regular doses at either 6 or 12 hour intervals.

Lets say your tolerance right now is 600 mg Tramadol per day. My estimation is 40 mg lope every 6 hours for two days and you would be feeling fine. You have to be patient though. Relief comes in two stages. Body aches for me start to subside at 4 hours, but full relief doesnt hit until 48 hours.
Stay at 160 mg per day lope for three days before tapering off it.( If you want a jump start then do 80 mg lope for the first two doses.)
Then start cutting back by 10 mg per day on the third or fourth day(the sooner the better). When you are down to 60 mg per day you just listen to your body and cut back when you are ready.
The nice thing about Loperamide is that if youre not megadosing it doesnt make you feel anything but constipated. After a week or two you start to feel life coming back and you can only think of how nice it will be to be free from the pills. All with no physical wds. The mindfuck of dealing with real life IS there though.
Also... get some laxatives. I am only crapping once every 10-14 days.

Beware, high dose Loperamide comes with heart problems. However the doses usually required for that are in the neighborhood of 300-400 mg per day and its usually consumed in one dose for weeks or months before the heart troubles begin. Dont fuck this up and think you can try googling getting high from Loperamide. The reason this stuff works so well is you must stay afraid of heart problems and never associate it with anything but constipation. It also blocks other opiates and greatly reduces their potency for a couple of weeks even after you stop using it. If 600 mg Tramadol got you high before, the after 3 weeks of lope it would take 1200 mg to do the same.

 

[steewith2ees]

Beware, high dose Loperamide comes with heart problems.

This is paramount and is the most important factor in play here and high doses of this drug are not recommended for any period.

But as I said before, if your main concern regards the discontinuation symptoms stemming from the serotonergic effects of the tramadol then you need to try and tackle this first and foremost before you start to concentrate on reducing the overall levels of dependency on opi's in general.

 

[Jabberwocky]

well that is a fucking huge amount, already getting in day 5 of the withdrawal. you are right stee that was just my mind trying to grab another branch of the big mighty bloody substance tree to get out ))
but I figured that the w/d is already very mild just my junkie ass mind is playing tricks for me.

at 5:00AM sunday morning I drank 2 beers and had a spliff, that was all that I consumed and it helped me more because I had those with an old friend I used to be close too and it really helped with my mood. in rest I did not do any substances these days, seems like a fucking miracle for me, late xmas gift from fate, let's see how much it takes for my mind to "pawn" this "gift".

have a nice week guys, take care y'all.

 

[Squeaky]

Dude, day 5 is already past the worst of the wds and Loperamide is not going to be much help now. Just stick to your cold turkey. Eat healthy. Hot showers and lots of sunshine. If you havent tried to kill yourself at this point then youre much better off avoiding lope.
Try not to drink. A hangover while in withdrawl is miserable, and getting dehydrated will make you feel extra crappy.

 

[blondin]

day and your over the worse you will probably even sleep now - jsut very weak with massive cravings is normal for me just one hit for doing so well.....

 

[Jabberwocky]

well my body feels right already, my mind is still delusional working on scheming and scoring, still taking walks just after midnight when all the pharmacies are closed. some non stops exist, but they serve me over the counter scripted medication very rarely like twice a month and I already abused them .

finally scrapped so money so I could fix my phone, I was without a phone for 2-3 weeks already and I loved it but as I'll dabble with some weed now and then as I'm working on some projects and it helps.

Though the cravings are mad, I try to go through all the events when I think of using and realise that the finish line is very similar to the start line so I hope this will last. Met with someone, gave them some fresh pins I got left but left very early as I did not want to see the ritual so my dick would become wet...

Time to see how much this will last, I always tell myself there is no feelings, objects, money, friends left to loose but I always manage to find some )) for now I refused a durogesic patch and some sevredol but it hurt as hell.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I'm clean

I swear thank God for Gabapentin is all I can say, why anyone would drink methadone when you can use these instead is beyond me.
Now though comes the real battle, the PAWS has always pushed me back to using, I guess time will tell how long I stay off the b but this time I have NO desire to slip back.

I bumped into two people over the last few days that I now HATE because of what they did to me, the one just got 30 grand from a death in the family & his looking like his about to die himself, the white & b has fucked him up badly. The other scum who ripped me off is hiding out still as he got in with some "road mans" & they want to kill him, he was looking like he always does too just full of hate & bitterness.....the gear life for me is over.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I'm clean

I swear thank God for Gabapentin is all I can say, why anyone would drink methadone when you can use these instead is beyond me.
Now though comes the real battle, the PAWS has always pushed me back to using, I guess time will tell how long I stay off the b but this time I have NO desire to slip back.

I bumped into two people over the last few days that I now HATE because of what they did to me, the one just got 30 grand from a death in the family & his looking like his about to die himself, the white & b has fucked him up badly. The other scum who ripped me off is hiding out still as he got in with some "road mans" & they want to kill him, he was looking like he always does too just full of hate & bitterness.....the gear life for me is over.

Well done mate! You won't regret it I promise you...

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Well done mate! You won't regret it I promise you...

Thanks mate, I am still not sleeping right I am getting at the most 4/5 hours a night but the extreme sweat has stopped & also it has been many years since I have been able to do a poo each day.
All the times I have stopped before it was ALWAYS the PAWS that got me, I will admit it here but please everyone don't take the piss, I suffer from PAWS so badly I have been so close to trying to kill myself, the feeling from it is not able to be put into words but so far I am ok.

Over this wk/end will be a huge test as my mate has asked me if I want to go smoke some white with him on Saturday, but tbh Fubar I have had enough of the gear & everything that comes with it.

 

[LoginNotSecure]

Thanks mate, I am still not sleeping right I am getting at the most 4/5 hours a night but the extreme sweat has stopped & also it has been many years since I have been able to do a poo each day.
All the times I have stopped before it was ALWAYS the PAWS that got me, I will admit it here but please everyone don't take the piss, I suffer from PAWS so badly I have been so close to trying to kill myself, the feeling from it is not able to be put into words but so far I am ok.

Over this wk/end will be a huge test as my mate has asked me if I want to go smoke some white with him on Saturday, but tbh Fubar I have had enough of the gear & everything that comes with it.

Get better friends.

 

[Squeaky]

Get better friends.

Yeah, one of the hardest things about getting clean is being around your old buddies who are still getting high. I have watched plenty of documentaries about rehab where some guy finally gets sober but only because he gets a job in another city and moves away from his old friends, dealers, etc.
If youre really serious about breaking free from this stuff...... you should probably stop seeing your old buddies who still use.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Yeah, one of the hardest things about getting clean is being around your old buddies who are still getting high. I have watched plenty of documentaries about rehab where some guy finally gets sober but only because he gets a job in another city and moves away from his old friends, dealers, etc.
If youre really serious about breaking free from this stuff...... you should probably stop seeing your old buddies who still use.

Yes, and definitely don't smoke any white - it will magnify any residual cravings for gear you still have and will very likely break your resolve.

 

[poppyplease.]

Hi, apologies if this is not the right place to post this, just looking for a bit of advice and after reading previous posts on here I'm hoping I can get a few answers, been smoking gear for over 15 years and with my lungs now in bad shape I started iv route for the first time, had thought about it many times in the past but thanks to my partner (also a smoker) I never actually picked up a needle until now, I know stupid thing to do after being satisfied using foil for so long but it's done.

Anyway, I've been enjoying it and all has gone as I would have expected, started with literally half a bag and have been shooting a bag every morning before work and feeling good, I guess a bag (of the current gear im getting) is just right to set me up for the day without flooring me (which I have yet to experience if trainspotting is true to form?), now to the point..I took everything I needed to treat myself to a shot at work, same amount etc, felt the same nice feeling and taste at the back of the throat but it went downhill from there.

..until now every time I've banged up my heart rate has increased shortly after (is that normal or just my adreneline..or both?) but then fairly soon has subsided leaving me just feeling good, this time (first time out of the comfort of home) my heart rate just continued to be rapid, it felt like a panic attack but with added symptoms, my eyes were squinting and sensitive to light, my mouth n lips were totally dry and I was really feeling very dodgy, restless, had to leave work as I couldn't face anyone, my torso felt aching, things slowly got better but It took a good 5-6 hrs before I felt totally back to normal...What went wrong??, same gear, same amount, did I do something wrong? (can you inject the shot whilst still too hot?, probably a stupid question), or was it just all in my head, am prone to panic attacks and was out of the comfort of home and in the toilet at work, but this went on for much longer and I felt really unwell, any thoughts would be much appreciated, cheers

 

[Squeaky]

I have no experience with IV, smoking, or H in any form. So I dont want to give advice on those topics.
However I do have extensive experience with panic attacks. What you describe is exactly what happens to me during a panic attack. Basically whatever you are uncomfortable with at that moment(public speaking, cats, needles, etc) becomes so amplified that your brain starts manufacturing fear in a way that makes you feel like you might die. It can be sweating, irregular breathing and/or heartbeat. Stuttering. Etc. Usually followed by an intense feeling that you need to leave right now.
If you know that your gear is all ok, and the only thing different was that you were away from home. A panic attack could be the answer. You might be better off this way though. If you cant do this away from home it may keep you from going deeper down the rabbit hole of IV drug use.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Sounds to me like a classic case of 'cotton fever', aka 'a bad hit':

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803705/

It's very common - just about every IV user will have experienced it several times in their 'career'. It can be very scary when it happens...

 

[poppyplease.]

Thanks for the replies, the thought of a 'bad hit' was definitely in my mind when this happened but coz alot of the symptoms were similar I couldn't be sure it wasn't a panic attack (as you described Squeaky), thing is I can usually get myself out of a panic attack and this lasted for hrs (including the physical symptoms I described), what I didint mention was that I felt so rough I actually googled the nearest doctors clinic and was literally in the que (not sure what I was actually gonna say to the receptionist!) but just being there was helping at that moment (was thinking at least if I have a heart attack I'm near a doc!), then my phone rang..my work mate had noticed me gone for ages "where the fuck are you?".."just getting fags" and with that I snapped out of imminent heart attack mode and did a u turn back to work, had to just work through it and finally symptoms wore off, can you have a bad hit even off the same gear that has been fine for days?