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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

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erdogan didnt start out as a dictator either. neither did hitler. nor other dictators of formerly-democratic countries. the only way to not see the signs and similarities is if you're willfully ignoring them or that ignorant of history; so, which is it in your case? willful ignorance, or willfully acting in bad faith?
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Dude, you're still being unnecessarily hostile. I'm not acting in bad faith and I'm not ignorant (wilfully or otherwise). People keep calling Trump a textbook fascist and comparing him to Hitler, which I think is absurd. Can you actually rationalise this comparison? What are the signs and similarities that I'm incapable of seeing?

I'm quite happy to discuss whether or not Trump is a fascist, and why, if you'd like to. But, I don't want to bother if you're just going to say "HE IS FASCIST AND IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT YOU'RE JUST IGNORANT" because that is not an argument.

You're too quick to call me ignorant. First lets have a discussion. Otherwise I'm not interested.
 
p590fascism.jpg


inb4 "none of those apply to trump"
 
Why can't people who call Trump a fascist actually engage in a discussion about how/why he is a fascist. People always post these lists, as if that proves something... Are you actually willing to discuss each of the things on this list (relative to Hitler) or (and I know this is going to sound weird) can we actually go off the dictionary definition of fascism?

Can you explain how it is possible for Trump to be a fascist, considering the fact that he is a democratic leader for a limited term and he doesn't (and cannot) have dictatorial powers?

Trump is eerily similar to Mussolini.
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That's incredibly insulting to the people who suffered under Mussolini.

Would you care to elaborate?
 
If all the people that try to enter Anerica illegally- no matter who they were or where they were from all had a lot of money, would Trump and the government be slightly less aggressive in their manner ?



Borders are there for many reasons, it's in the best interest of Americans to have a border so their economy doesnt leak, but srsly there are better ways than what has gone on, see Australia and how caring we are to illegal immigrants.8(
 
tathra said:
p590fascism.jpg


inb4 "none of those apply to trump"
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Thank you. I hadn't seen the indicators before (/pleads ignorance, willfully ;) ).

Can't say 'none' apply to Trump. Half of them I can check 'yup' before I finished the list. But half I don't see being applied to him. And for the ones that folks WILL apply to him, there is room for debate as well, IMO. The easiest and most obvious is 'Controlled Mass Media' as it is more his opponent than his ally/tool. Though, to be a facist, I'm fairly confident in assuming one doesn't have to check ALL the boxes. You can always check 'yes' later.
 
Trump's similarities to fascists like Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler are glaringly obvious. And I'm 99.99% certain I've (or at least someone here) has gone into great detail about those similarities. But I'm feeling queasy right now so I really don't wana dig it up... I'm sure in this 100+ page thread the points are there though.

To be honest, Bush bears more similarities to fascists than even Trump. 9/11 was just like the Reichstag fire. And the Patriot act was eerily similar to kristallnacht type shit. Except everyone bought into it back then so he got away with it.

I'll admit, Trump hasn't achieved nearly the dictatorial evil that Bush did in his first years. Only the future will tell if he will surpass Bush though.
 
I don't have time to go through 100 pages.

So Bush and Trump are fascists... Is there a right wing president (in the past 50 years) that is not fascist?

Trump's similarities to fascists like Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler are glaringly obvious.
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I'm going to assume you mean similarities to Hitler and Mussolini before they became mass murderers? Would you really bet money that Trump will become anything like Hitler or Mussolini when they were actually murdering millions of people?
9/11 was just like the Reichstag fire.
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How many innocent people died in Reichstag fire?

Bush wasn't operating in a vacuum. According to opinion polls, before the Iraq war, the American people agreed with his decision. They only disagreed in retrospect, like with Vietnam.
 
^That made me LOL.

"December 1st, 2017. You can mark it down. This is the day that everything changed."
"Bombshell!" "Bombshell!" "Bombshell!" "Bombshell!" "Bombshell!" "Bombshell!"

Hahaha. :D

Trump will make it to the end of his term. He might even get re-elected, by the look of it. Then, in 2024, there will be another Dem president and all the anti-Trump mania will die down... Trump isn't Hitler. People need to chill a bit.
 
|~~ANT~~| said:
I don't have time to go through 100 pages.

So Bush and Trump are fascists... Is there a right wing president (in the past 50 years) that is not fascist?



I'm going to assume you mean similarities to Hitler and Mussolini before they became mass murderers? Would you really bet money that Trump will become anything like Hitler or Mussolini when they were actually murdering millions of people?



How many innocent people died in Reichstag fire?

Bush wasn't operating in a vacuum. According to opinion polls, before the Iraq war, the American people agreed with his decision. They only disagreed in retrospect, like with Vietnam.[/COLOR]
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I'm just drawing similarities to the Reichstag fire because history has told us that Hitler and his folk framed it on communists in order to seize power. Bush did the same thing with 9/11. I'm certain it was an inside job. I think Bush might be the only president to ever achieve 90%+ popularity, and he did so in the same way that Hitler achieved such popularity. Also, he acted like Hitler on the world stage. The world did not back us on Iraq, but did sit silently and watch. Sort of like the annexation of Austria... and the Czechs... and Poland...

And no, I don't think Trump will ever achieve genocide or murder on such a scale; however, I do believe he would if he thought he could get away with it. Luckily America has a degree of checks and balances to prevent such centralization of power... but again, Trump would love if he had no such checks so he could rob the country blind and then blame it on Mexicans.

I wouldn't say Bush Sr. was fascist. Or Reagan even. Only Bush Jr. and Trump because of the manners in which they seized/convinced the public to give over power to them.

And no, Obama didn't exemplify fascism. If you want to discuss that further we can but I don't really want to.

And like I said, 100 pages is a lot, but the answers are there. I don't wana go through it either :|
 
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|~~ANT~~| said:
I don't have time to go through 100 pages.

So Bush and Trump are fascists... Is there a right wing president (in the past 50 years) that is not fascist?



I'm going to assume you mean similarities to Hitler and Mussolini before they became mass murderers? Would you really bet money that Trump will become anything like Hitler or Mussolini when they were actually murdering millions of people?



How many innocent people died in Reichstag fire?

Bush wasn't operating in a vacuum. According to opinion polls, before the Iraq war, the American people agreed with his decision. They only disagreed in retrospect, like with Vietnam.[/COLOR]
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Bush wasn't, not as far as I'm concerned anyway. Actually I've found myself missing bush a lot lately thanks to trump. But I don't believe he caused 9/11. So keep that in mind.

Trump however probably is.
 
JessFR said:
Bush wasn't, not as far as I'm concerned anyway. Actually I've found myself missing bush a lot lately thanks to trump. But I don't believe he caused 9/11. So keep that in mind.

Trump however probably is.
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It's understandable that if you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job, that Bush was just a nice guy 'protecting' America then. I don't buy his schtick a bit though. Even if he wasn't behind it, someone who wanted him to have more power was. In which case, he was just a puppet.

I'm pretty certain Trump is just a puppet too though.

Now that I think about it, I think Dick Cheney and Pence are probably the real fascists. Poor little Bush and Trump are just too stupid to realize they're being manipulated.
 
Cream Gravy? said:
It's understandable that if you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job, that Bush was just a nice guy 'protecting' America then. I don't buy his schtick a bit though. Even if he wasn't behind it, someone who wanted him to have more power was. In which case, he was just a puppet.

I'm pretty certain Trump is just a puppet too though.

Now that I think about it, I think Dick Cheney and Pence are probably the real fascists. Poor little Bush and Trump are just too stupid to realize they're being manipulated.
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I believe the official story of 9/11. More than anything else anyway. You don't have to, but I do.

That said though, I tend to agree bush was a puppet, I just disagree over the crimes of his masters. I've never been able to hate bush because bush has always struck me as like a well intentioned but stupid puppy. Well meaning, but too stupid to just STOP PEEING ON THE RUG! Trump on the other hand is not well meaning.

As for Obama, I probably gave him a harder time in his presidency than bush, because unlike bush, I've never felt like Obama was stupid or a puppet. Even if objectively I think fewer criminal mistakes happened on obamas watch, I feel like I can't excuse him for them like I could with bush.

And one thing where I think both differ from trump. As much as their actions might have been right or wrong or illegal or not, it's always been my impression that Obama, bush, most presidents in my lifetime, all at least believed they were doing what's right for America. Not so with trump, I think trump only cares about what's good for trump. Trump is probably somewhat of a puppet, but not as much as bush. People probably try to pull his strings, but I don't for a second think trump would let anyone pull his strings knowingly.

i kinda wish trump were a puppet, because his puppet master would probably still be better for America. Trumps an utter disaster.
 
I do believe he would if he thought he could get away with it.
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Based on what? That's a huge statement. Who would he kill? Has he ever talked about genocide? If so, genocide of whom?
Only Bush Jr. and Trump (are fascists) because of the manners in which they seized/convinced the public to give over power to them.
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So despite having extremely similar policies to Obama, they are fascists (and therefore comparable to Hitler) because of the electoral process? Don't you think that's a bit extreme? If not, you want to try and explain why it isn't?
Now that I think about it, I think Dick Cheney and Pence are probably the real fascists. Poor little Bush and Trump are just too stupid to realize they're being manipulated.
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So now neither of them are fascists? :\

...

Calling Trump a fascist is like equating Harvey Weinstein with a child rapist.

I think trump only cares about what's good for trump.
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But his policies aren't far removed from either Obama or Bush...?
 
|~~ANT~~| said:
Not going to get into the conspiratorial stuff.

It's kind of ridiculous.[/COLOR]
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It's not ridiculous and I haven't met many people my age who question that it was an inside job. But I don't know how old any of y'all are or what's behind your either trust or mistrust of the American government, so I won't argue about it.

I think Bush and Trump are the faces of greater conspiratorial movements aimed at concentrating power in the hands of a malicious few, under the guise of protecting the little guy and 'freedom'. And you know what, maybe Obama was too and he's just a prettier, smarter face. I don't know. I'm tired and I'm gonna catch some sleep for now.
 
Cream Gravy? said:
It's not ridiculous and I haven't met many people my age who question that it was an inside job. But I don't know how old any of y'all are or what's behind your either trust or mistrust of the American government, so I won't argue about it.

I think Bush and Trump are the faces of greater conspiratorial movements aimed at concentrating power in the hands of a malicious few, under the guise of protecting the little guy and 'freedom'. And you know what, maybe Obama was too and he's just a prettier, smarter face. I don't know. I'm tired and I'm gonna catch some sleep for now.
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Have you seen the nat geo documentary they aired on 9/11?

It was a perfect moment for the Bush family to get even with Hussein, but I don't think it was planned or orchestrated by the U.S.
 
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