Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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I also wanted to add, you have to change the neural memory pathways in your brain to break habits. I broke the habit of taking pain meds 4 times a day, eating a fatty meal to potentiate the opioids. Now I take a Lyrica 3 times a day without food, probably why I continue to lose weight. I also found that a cocktail with my evening dose potentiates GABA-ergic Lyrica. I still use medical marijuana (heavy indica before bed and occasional daytime vape), followed by Ambien for bed. Thankfully, my GP kept me on Ambien. I heard that fatty meals potentiate Lyrica as well, but I don't want to go down that path, lol. I love the new me!
-SweetLeaf7
 
Hi Hypoeddy,

I empathize with you. I would suggest decreasing the dose a little each day. I did this scientifically for my taper, but it's easier to do when you know the dose you are getting. Addiction medicine experts recommend no more than 10% decrease per week. If you don't have the self discipline to do this (no judgement), then I would recommend a detox facility followed by rehab. I though Medicaid has to pay for mental health/substance abuse treatment as part of mental health parity. I wish you much success. You can do this, but only if you really, really want this. I used Lyrica to get off the opioids with success. Gabapentin is good too. I think Lyrica is 3 times more potent. 150 mg = 450 mg Gabapentin. Threshold for Lyrica is 300 mg so I would try to increase the Gabapentin if you have a supply of those. Much love brother.
-SweetLeaf7
 
Hello Painful One!

I'm sorry to hear you've been sick. I hope you feel better soon. When I was sick, my pains meds never worked - there is some science behind this (metabolism burns high with fever, body trying to purge sickness so meds are metabolized faster and you don't feel the effects much). Sending much love and support!

By the way, I was quickly scanning the posts since I was on here last, back in Jan, and I noticed a kind post from you. Thank you for thinking of me when I was down the rabbit hole. You are such a good person!

-SweetLeaf7
 
Hey Shroomy, my heart breaks for you. Have you ever considered Lyrica? It is used for anxiety and doesn't have the spikes that benzos have. I take it for pain, but it has done wonders for my anxiety and it is sedating.
-SweetLeaf7
 
Haha ShroomySatori!
If I'm too sick to realize weed will help. Lol! Thanks for the memo though.
Sometimes, my gosh I may need one?

Yeah, I have been drinking some ginger tea. I had a real bad night of stabbing stomach pain and freaking diarrhea
Every ten minutes. It sucked. I was worried I might have to go to the hospital because I was not able to even keep down a swallow of fluid and I'm exhausted.

But..,weed did help indeed..

Still reading everyone's posts but wanted to give a thank you to Shroomy.
I'm okay now. The worst is over and I have stuck to my schedule and I am sticking to my schedule!

Stick to the plan Shroomy! Don't give in to that. You are doing so great. Get your mind busy on something else.

Hope everyone's doing well, getting caught up now.
 
Hello Painful One, I seriously was getting too sick to realize that heroin will help. I'm not even kidding. By the end of it - I mean - withdrawal was sort of a joke for the first several years of abuse. I definitely had withdrawal, but it wasn't torture. It was not like being burnt alive for 2 weeks and then left physically and mentally decimated only to do it again until the 5th year or so. I could dress myself, I wasn't suicidal. It meant laying in bed burnt out physically ill and watching movies for a week and then relapsing after that week wasting my time, for example, about a year and half into my habit. Now, I don't know what it means. It has been 13 weeks and I still don't feel right. At all.

Glad you thought that was funny though. I see your sense of humour as well. I missed my valium appointment and went the following day at the same time. They offered to leave a memo next time. I got my valium, but I really needed it the day before and was stressing hard. It was waiting at the pharmacy apparently. I was well prepared in advance, well dressed and all trying to look presentable and then just a no show. My GP hates that cause I've done it before I almost got booted but like one out of 3 doctors I have ever known who I sense don't feel like they are at work in a way.

I think I got hooked on espresso faster than I got hooked on anything. Weed and espresso do you do this! Or tea of course, but I was never into coffee very much. I like London fogs, those frothy earl grey treats. Feeling so stupid and unable to concentrate, stimulants become attractive (coke, meth). I did this the year before last year and it was a horrible decision and I binged on coke throughout September this year. The crashes led to relapses. I drink my first espresso and it's like... this is the other half of weed? Weed and espressos and London fogs but espressos are sooooo nice since I can have one quick and enjoy it real well, but then have a low caffeine drink like a London fog or just an earl grey tea or a white or green tea. Espressos though... where have you been all my life, that stuff is rocket fuel.

Also I am having a strong desire to go back to the drugs all of a sudden. It is because nothing is improving and it seems that if anything things have gotten worse. I am more depressed than ever. I don't know why I feel that way. I fall apart without a lot of bong rips and I can't afford them or the benzos right now I feel stuck so that is part of it, I really depend on weed and it's good where I live because of that.

I often feel severely depressed after intense exercise now too. It's so weird, because of that runner's high or whatever. Exercise and the detoxifying kind that is making me more nimble, stronger and flexible is helping my energy. But it is a long term effect - right after a really intense workout I really can't figure out why. I don't mean with weights or a gym I'd never touch one of those it would cripple me.

I think that I do get endorphins, but maybe I just don't have enough of them yet, or like perhaps it is a tease to my pain system for the time being. Like 1% of a high that I was used to, hitting the same receptors just internally from exercise. It could also be the standard loneliness and being in that environment too. I really think it is that. Generally my pain / endorphins / dopamine / hormones / sleep schedule / entire brain is messed up though.

I had a nap, that helped but by the time I woke up and rebooted it is entering the evening now. I didn't mean to have a nap, smoked three bong tokes which I definitely should not have done because I'm going to run out again but I needed rest I had 4 hours before training (I am angry at myself, because I did this out of anger though I wasn't tired... but it did calm me down I guess). I find that post-exercise in general I have way more energy. It is essential to exercise even a 20min brisk walk will have your meds working better, and for me, it will have from one study approximately 15% extra THC intake but probably a lot more.

It's usually the sickness that keeps people away I hear. Maybe I should try and remember how that felt since I'm not thinking about that part as the feeling. Thank you for the message it has been a lonely, unproductive day. I took care of my body though. I am on a mission for daily yoga, it has been 4 days straight now. Or 4 out of 5. I need to give myself a break, it's like I forgot how busy I was this week. I was laying in bed all day like half this year too depressed to watch movies or read and now I'm really not. The sadness I feel now is real, and it happens at this time of year. It is not exacerbated by the opiates. Those, above all else, fried my brain. Anhedonia. My body is pretty much the same as it ever was, I'm really fit now too. Well I should be after 3 months of hard work and even doing that in withdrawal - that is something I am proud of and only I will ever know how hard that actually was to keep up with.

The only thing I'm really proud about this year is that I got really fit. I'd say I am way better looking than before my injury, like the weight I'm supposed to be and more balanced since everything I do is full body. And the extra energy, I really seem to fly around sometimes now if I'm in the zone and not distracted by pain. I figured if I worked really that hard for an hour at least every day, then my body would get used to it and I'd start being able to get out of bed more often. This is totally happening too.

Also, it isn't physical exhaustion after the workouts anymore. My body has adapted to deal with the high intensity heat, nonstop sweating, working my butt off and then chilling out. I was an exercise fanatic before my injury, so I knew what to do. Wasn't anything new apart from really watching my core engagement and being a lot weaker and out of breath. At first, I'd be beyond exhausted. The next day I like, wouldn't even move, but now I have more physical energy afterwards so long as I fuel my workouts. The thing I am finding now, is that I get depressed after working out for a little bit before feeling normal again. It has to be something to do with my pain system repairing itself and I definitely don't think it is a bad thing. Intuitively, it's actually probably really helping me feel okay without snorting anything that could kill me any time.

13 weeks this weekend, maybe someone else could help me realize that is a good thing and not a bad thing? I'm starting to feel like I'm going to relapse and then at the end of the year I would think hey, I have a whole year under my belt. And the way it changes the brain never goes away. My massive H tolerance would be back to normal in a matter of days, but the first hit would take a tiny little pinch. It was such an overdose risk doing this even with percocets and I think that would be pretty much asking for something bad to happen. I think that even a single perc right now would be more than enough for that energy and pain relief but then how am I supposed to not want it again after?

Even if I am broke and I'm still suffering a lot especially the loneliness really hurts now. Springtime is the time of year I have always found romantic and it's just like now another summer alone with my one buddy in town to leave town and venture into the forest with and my brother. Every year, I am most lonely of all at this time of year and I think it is because I am experiencing day by day the potential for love being discarded yet again and then people start coming out the snow has melted couples are everywhere and it makes me feel like what the fuck is wrong with me.

I'm just so lost that I don't know if I'm doing good. I hear people make it 3, 6, 9 months and they still don't mentally feel well and relapse. I have to hang in there because if I don't use any longer then like spring began recently. I may have a tough spring but I think once summer hits and I can go to the beach and the hiking trails and get a tan, and it's just so wonderful in the summer that if I can make it to summertime then I wouldn't be tempted. But I need to make changes because if I am lonely during the summer, that is the worst time to be lonely. Most everyone hates the winters here so it's not like I've really missed out on all that much other than ever accumulating wasted time.
 
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Hey sweet leaf, thanks for the kind words. I get like that but then a few hours I'll be alright. yeah the entire system works together. Society created a dichotomy by trying to deny citizens the right to use painkillers. It is even multi-faceted, I personally think those companies work together with drug cartels and the government and banks and lots of places where there is wealth and control. It affects a minority and most of them addicts or pain patients and their families and loved ones or whatever these people would definitely benefit from more freedom. And then it causes a lot of scummy people to become very rich off something so overpriced it is enslavement. They are the ones who know their bodies best and should have the right to choose safely. It is oppression. Anyone addicted has an overdose risk, and nobody addicted really wants to be. Why exactly is this risk tolerated, regardless of the cause which often isn't investigated very much as people end up in jail and stuff. And then, this has completely fucked up pain management there is NO trust between doctor and patient. You can have extreme physical pain and no visible damage, and vice versa.

These are intelligent people doing evil things and do you think someone with a Ph.D in chemistry for example would not realize that the molecular structures of heroin and any of the ones that are good shit to me are practically identical? Or that it is possible to crush a water soluble pill and IV it? It is a global drug hustle involving everyone working together with the goal of generating as much dirty money as possible, and if you are getting good pain management treatment I don't even know what to say. Lucky to get a doctor that cares and is willing to pretty much risk their career as a doctor so that you can have a quality of life.

I'm stuck on the benzos for now. I have to switch to a long acting one so that it stops becoming a hit. Again, the reason I am not taking long acting benzos consistently is due to mental illness stigma and prohibition. It is what is best for my health right now to make that switch with a doctor, but society doesn't allow it. They pressure the doctors into being fearful, and they worked so hard to get into those jobs so they don't want to prescribe anything that works but has any sort of abuse potential, opting to either underprescribe, never adjust for tolerance, or prescribe stuff that doesn't work and is just more chemicals in the body.

I'm concerned with getting myself better now. So I am in a kind of individual self-generated rehab. I find with quitting opiates that insomnia becomes a problem later on, perhaps beginning around 3 or 4 weeks into detox. It is what made me relapse the first time. Insomnia = worse back pain, for me. Also I started getting panic attacks way more. Never tried lyrica but tbh I really need to switch over to a long acting benzo like klonopin asap.

I am almost halfway through Infinite Jest. This is the large 1000 page book in fine print I'm reading and it's one of my main goals right now because getting my brain working again is so important. And I wasn't able to read in withdrawal for a long time. I felt too stupid to do so. My reading pace is really picking up, and after that book I am going to get into the electromagnetic theory and quantum mechanics. Then my dumbass might get somewhere in life before it's too late. I do not have all the time in the world to deal with this. I have a lot of making things up to do.

I haven't been running off psychedelic stimulants like 2cc and 2cd this time either which is definitely making it way harder. I experienced those last year, though. I am running off espresso and earl grey tea now instead. I'm already permafried so it's pretty much the same. Whatever my brain looks like, it definitely needs caffeine to function. Espressos!!! Best psychoactive I've discovered since 2cc. I've definitely looked into Lyrica so thanks for the suggestion. I am super caught up in benzos at the moment and it's quite the situation so I'm looking at a long term very slow taper eventually.
 
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I know those messages are long, I've been messed up lately can't think straight. Things are looking up today.

Painful One I did the responsible thing and when I got some money it all went to benzos. I just burst out laughing (seriously) because of what a contradictory statement it was. Like $$$ I could have filled up the tank, paid a bill I need to this week, hit up coffee haunts all week and - the reason I brought this up - I didn't leave any money for weed. It is still essential for me to function. I cannot function without cannabis on a daily basis. That is why it was responsible because I can always scrounge up some change and hit up the dispensary even if I'm depressed for a little bit it's lowering my tolerance anyway, I probably would have smoked all that weed real fast - the more weed I have, the more I smoke always - but benzos are not like weed here or anywhere. Can't just go buy a valium at a store if you run out. But now, I wake up today and it's like "I need weed for today, and it has to last me until two mornings from now at least" so I am taking care of that right away. Leaving time for actual responsibilities. Well I hope to have a busy day ahead of me. It is going well so far. The last two nights I slept for a few hours with early awakenings and it is beginning to catch up with me. I better get a good rest today since when this happens consecutively my back starts very much to complain.
 
Shroomy!i tried to send you a message yesterday but it does not show up as a sent item? Sorry, I'm having problems with working this website at times. I will try again.

I am lonely too Shroomy. Big time. I understand that very much. I could easily find a guy too but it's just that I am so injured and then there is this opiate dependence. How do I work around this? I keep telling myself that if we are in an opiate epidemic there are going to be others just like me whom would be understanding? Maybe.

I know I can't keep staying lonely like this. I can't live without love. But I have been taking the time I need to really work on myself.
I want a real love and I feel like I have needed to take some time out and get myself loved by myself and work some things out.
I think love comes when you are worthy of it. You also need to be a stable partner and a shining lights in someone's life.
I feel like I have come a long way in maturing into a well rounded and more easy going person.

It sounds like you have made a lot of progress SweetLeaf7! I'm really, super happy to hear from you and I'm so glad you are feeling so much better! Congratulations!! I wish the gabapentin and neurontin helped me but I had bad reactions to both of those. I can't take them but the Lyrica has been helping my cousin too.

Congratulations to you also ShroomySatori! You have been making real progress and I am hopeful that with a bit more time that things will get even better for you. Let's see just how great you are doing at 6 months!

Geez we have all been through a lot. I pray for all of us. Keep on smiling my friends. We will work through this.
 
The ?opioid epidemic? seems to have my Dr scared too. I?ll be about a week on cold turkey next time I see him, so hopefully Ill be done anyway, but he seemd to be pushing for me to be off his schedule.
 
It is good you sensed that in advance. I would trust your intuition on that one if I went back after so many months I really doubt I'd be put back on the same meds.

I think I am in the midst of those post-acute withdrawals. It is now 13 weeks without any. I've been having cravings though, all of a sudden. Sort of feels like I completely fried my brain, that my body is incredibly unstable and like I had mad restless legs randomly today, aching upper arm right now just a slight touch of torture. It is to be expected after running off the stuff for so long. The process is so long and drawn out and the sickness recedes pretty quick, that I find this depressed state where I'm just not getting much done at all to be its own form of hell. The improvement is noticed in weeks or months and one has to be patient.
 
I guess its kind of fair..... Years of opiates cant be undone in a couple of weeks.
Still sucks though.
 
There is nothing fun about cold turkey man. The two hardcore addicts I know who quit, one iv dilaudid and one iv H, both say it is the sickness that keeps them away. We speak of withdrawals interchangeably. They get so much worse as time goes on, especially if you try and detox and go back to it repeatedly. Eventually, you find yourself in the depths of hell and using can no longer be justified. I'd start right where I left off... extremely unstable and on the brink of getting serious help.

At least I'm trying now; exploring what this kind of life would be like. Man it's just the sickness. For all the pain relief in the world I cannot go through that first month of hell again (another thing those dudes agree with... as the Disease progresses, withdrawal is no longer mild symptoms for a number of days. It becomes a lifelong struggle, I can still feel it physically and mentally and I am at the 14th week. If I went back I'd be at the first day and looking at a longer and more soul crushing recovery.

There is a point of no return I definitely believe that and I was getting close. Why think about the way opiate exposure affected me first when it has permanently changed my brain to react as nothing but a manipulative drug addicted hustling fiend if I am exposed once to the drug when this stuff used to be a pain med for me, any of it. Then it became an obsession and now it is something I hate but will probably end up using at some point if things don't improve so I better get to that.
 
The ?opioid epidemic? seems to have my Dr scared too. I?ll be about a week on cold turkey next time I see him, so hopefully Ill be done anyway, but he seemd to be pushing for me to be off his schedule.

Well, I hope this is not the case. They have a lot of blood on their hands to answer for and will have a lot more if they cut off legitimate pain patients.

I read an article about the Veterans administration bringing in a doctor who cut off all the amputees cold turkey and then wondered why one of them snapped and assaulted him. I sure hope this is not true. That hurts my heart very badly and I have to trust that there are still lots of doctors that would help these poor veterans.

For me, life could not have been worse before I was put into pain management. I could not sleep or eat. Constant moaning and writhing in pain. I was almost dead.
It was like a whole new life to even be able to sleep and eat. I have to remember how bad things were before and also how bad things could get if I abuse this medication. I need it for actual quality of life so I am not going to abuse it. I have a newfound growing respect for even being a day or two short on medication. I don't want to go through that again and I don't have too.
I'm just going to have to get through paralysis or whatever is thrown at me with the tools I have.

The goal for me is to keep stable and function the best I can.

I am finding other ways to cope too that require no medication. The mind is a powerful thing.

Believe in yourself and who you are my friends.
 
To believe that you depend on things and people for happiness is due to ignorance of your true nature.

To know that you need nothing to be happy except self-knowledge, is wisdom.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
 
Attachment and aversion are vices of the spirit. To know that you are unified with all of creation and that reality is a reflection full of illusionary projections is wisdom, too.

I am cranky without weed and feel like shit most of the time. Wisdom isn't getting me too far in life.

Duality by DJ Krush is good as well, that is a well orchestrated song I was listening to it after just getting so stoned I can't keep my fuckin eyes open. From one bong toke but a full lung.
 
Thank you for the nice replies, Shroomy, Painful One, Squeaky, hope you're doing well.

Painful One, I can relate to the loneliness but having to deal with opioid dependence. So now that I'm off opioids I want to find someone even more because your senses are returning. So I did online dating, and even though the pickings are slim in your late 40s, it is the same bs as when I was doing this 10 yrs ago. I went out on a date and the guy was real rude and pushy so I played up my opioid story to scare him off and it worked. He was a big dude and we were alone so I felt it best to make him want to be the one to walk away from the date. This made me so discouraged in the whole process that I long for the comfortably numb state that opioids provided. I miss that feeling where I didn't care about relationships - they are too much work and painful. I just might be one of those people that live alone for the rest of my days and I think I'm ok with that.

-SweetLeaf7
 
Don't give up that easy SweetLeaf7. Believe me, I am scared too and I am sorry to hear you have not had a good experience with the online dating.

The online dating seems kinda sketchy but I think you should keep trying. Look at it as an interview. It is going to take some time to find an acceptable candidate and even more time and effort to find real love. Don't give up though. I loved it when you said you had lost weight and were feeling so good about yourself and wanted to date again. I had a good, strong, psychic impression that you would indeed succeed in finding love.

Although it is true that you need nothing else besides you.
We always have love with us. We are our true soul mate.
We need some physical contact and affection.
I feel like it is starting to effect my health actually.

I am going about it a different way... I am actually trying to magnetically attract myself my match and I will wait.
 
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