CEPS Well Hung Parliament (CEPS Social/Off Topic)
- Thread starter Escher's Waterfall
- Start date
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Random: Remind them it's always been the left. Whether socialism under the nazis or obamacare, it's socialism and it is too the left. Fireside chats in sheets, they can be black (antifa) or white (kkk) but those guys vote (d), they are to the left of me. None of it relates to the Party of Lincoln, except when they fought him in the civil war. These are facts, you can read between the lines. Ps, this is light hearted fun, I am filled with humor.
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
Today has a few bright spots! Unfortunately, it also seems to be the day of "I have a ___ who is/was _____ and therefore I must not be _____.
I'm going to go make some Vitamin D.
I'm going to go make some Vitamin D.
Trolling? I honestly can't tell with you
Scrofula
Bluelight Crew
That is . . . absolutely not the traditional understanding of "left" and "right".
But I'm hungry and hallucinating a little, so I'll just nod for now.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Im actually fundamentally sure of my facts,
invoking anyone fighting Lincoln, was over the top
invoking anyone fighting Lincoln, was over the top
So, you're calling the KKK and nazis "left wing"?
Sounds like you've been misinformed mate. The nazis were about as socialist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic (ie not at all).
sarcasm doesn't really work in this kind of format
Sounds like you've been misinformed mate. The nazis were about as socialist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic (ie not at all).
sarcasm doesn't really work in this kind of format
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
To my knowledge and what I was told in school, the nazis did not see themselves as "to the right." I think it's all really a circle, and all extremes lead to the same place.
Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Sounds far more nazi-like to me (or communist-like) to me than capitalism.
Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Sounds far more nazi-like to me (or communist-like) to me than capitalism.
That's such an simplification as to be utterly meaningless.
The "horseshoe theory" of political extremes arguably has some validity to it, but if you're going to throw "nazi" and "communist" around as synonyms (as you did above) it comes off as (willfully?) uninformed.
Really, the horseshoe theory you mention is just a form of argument to moderation fallacy, that pushes the idea that "centrism" is the only appropriate path to take politically - which is nonsense
Socialism has the effect of putting power into the hands of communities (the many) rather than the elite (the few).
No amount of dogmatic american historical revisionism can change that.
It's hard for me to understand how anybody could be fooled into thinking that government for the people, by the people is a bad thing.
Trump's administration closely resembles fascism - yet you guys still go on about the socialist bogeyman. It's simply bizarre.
The "horseshoe theory" of political extremes arguably has some validity to it, but if you're going to throw "nazi" and "communist" around as synonyms (as you did above) it comes off as (willfully?) uninformed.
Really, the horseshoe theory you mention is just a form of argument to moderation fallacy, that pushes the idea that "centrism" is the only appropriate path to take politically - which is nonsense
Socialism has the effect of putting power into the hands of communities (the many) rather than the elite (the few).
No amount of dogmatic american historical revisionism can change that.
It's hard for me to understand how anybody could be fooled into thinking that government for the people, by the people is a bad thing.
Trump's administration closely resembles fascism - yet you guys still go on about the socialist bogeyman. It's simply bizarre.
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Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Whatcha nodding on? Me, I just had some kratom and company is coming for warmth and sympathy, so time for a beer. ?
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Spacejunk, in times like these it is best not to take it all seriously. Lets laugh.
Scrofula
Bluelight Crew
Just awake for 60 hours now from a weird meth dosing. I don't usually do that.
In high school we were actually taught something called the ideological wheel. It was a creation of the instructor, not some curriculum thing. And really it was just a chart with two axes, but drawn as a circle to show a continuum.
So the x-axis is your usual liberal left and conservative right, but with a y-axis to show civil liberties in a sense. So top is lawlessness, anarchy or Anarchism; bottom is pure authoritarianism. It makes some sense, because with no government, it can't be left- or right-leaning, and with a totalitarian government, ideology is kind of moot. DPRK is rock bottom.
It's not perfect, but works for high school. It also kind of highlights how fascism is hard to pin down. Maybe because fascist governments don't last very long and always end with millions dead? A proto-fascist state, though, is quite definitely hard-right before it slides totally into authoritarianism, conscripts everyone under dear leader, declares war on everyone else, and gets destroyed. You can argue they were "socialist" in that the gov. could force factories into switching to making bomber parts, "for the people".
So your ku klux klan is obviously far right, actively preventing outsider integration; when it's sanctioned by government, as it often was, you're in a proto-fascist place in the lower right of the wheel.
If we take the right's fever dream of "antifa", you'll find far left views on equality and civil liberties, but with anarchist tendencies that shoot them way up to the top, and over to upper left. They are fundamentally different from fascists, as much as some would like to equate them (the end goals for alt-right proto-fascists being a homogeneous white Christian nation; and for "antifa", equality across the board, taken to the extreme of having no power imbalance at all (no bosses)). Considering they exist mostly in meme form anyway, who can say what the latest internet rumor says they're up to.
Here's an approximation, I didn't fill it in, and yes, the whole point was to make relative comparisons:
In high school we were actually taught something called the ideological wheel. It was a creation of the instructor, not some curriculum thing. And really it was just a chart with two axes, but drawn as a circle to show a continuum.
So the x-axis is your usual liberal left and conservative right, but with a y-axis to show civil liberties in a sense. So top is lawlessness, anarchy or Anarchism; bottom is pure authoritarianism. It makes some sense, because with no government, it can't be left- or right-leaning, and with a totalitarian government, ideology is kind of moot. DPRK is rock bottom.
It's not perfect, but works for high school. It also kind of highlights how fascism is hard to pin down. Maybe because fascist governments don't last very long and always end with millions dead? A proto-fascist state, though, is quite definitely hard-right before it slides totally into authoritarianism, conscripts everyone under dear leader, declares war on everyone else, and gets destroyed. You can argue they were "socialist" in that the gov. could force factories into switching to making bomber parts, "for the people".
So your ku klux klan is obviously far right, actively preventing outsider integration; when it's sanctioned by government, as it often was, you're in a proto-fascist place in the lower right of the wheel.
If we take the right's fever dream of "antifa", you'll find far left views on equality and civil liberties, but with anarchist tendencies that shoot them way up to the top, and over to upper left. They are fundamentally different from fascists, as much as some would like to equate them (the end goals for alt-right proto-fascists being a homogeneous white Christian nation; and for "antifa", equality across the board, taken to the extreme of having no power imbalance at all (no bosses)). Considering they exist mostly in meme form anyway, who can say what the latest internet rumor says they're up to.
Here's an approximation, I didn't fill it in, and yes, the whole point was to make relative comparisons:
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
I like that....hippies and tea party-ers on top (ie, real Americans) and the losers (socialists and communists) on the bottom.
Totally with ya.
Totally with ya.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Also, its kneel before zod. You are embarrassing yourself.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
I think MGS is both 
Scrofula
Bluelight Crew
Hey I caaught the zod thing too, it's why i pointed out I didn't fill it in. Also, how Zod isn't a fascist, I have no idea.
And if you've ever been around some hippie co-op you'll find that being at the very top of that chart is great for a sense of equality, until something has to get done, and suddenly the total lack of leadership and accountability means the bathroom never gets cleaned and everyone forgets to pay rent.
And if you've ever been around some hippie co-op you'll find that being at the very top of that chart is great for a sense of equality, until something has to get done, and suddenly the total lack of leadership and accountability means the bathroom never gets cleaned and everyone forgets to pay rent.
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
Nazis were the third way, not socialism, not capitalism. According to the Nazis, Jews controlled both capitalism and communism, and thus both should be rejected.
Kittycat5
Bluelighter
^It's natural and inevitable... I'm the kind of guy who'll get off an airplane in a city I've never been to before, get a taxi, and will always wind up with the only taxi driver who's a pimp or a bookie on the sideor at least take me to one, or a spot.
Xork et al I'm well enough... I left the city at least for a while and am in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. I did rehab for alcohol,had to do the Librium protocol and everything so's not to catch a seizure but I'm mostly dry now. Looking for a new job, finally got sick of the dysfunctionality of the last one and resigned.
I took a break from BL, too, for somewhat complicated reasons, but it's like my 5th time that I took a break from here; got pinged by some old friends and couldn't resist a post or a few
[video=youtube_share;UPw-3e_pzqU]http://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU[/video]
Im glad you are alive buddy. Come back and chat.