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Charlottesville, Virginia

White nationalists are racists. I hope nobody's gonna pick that up for "discussion."

Nazis are white nationalists. Both NAZIs and neo-nazis.

Fascism is nationalism, not always white, but always racist. Conformity and scapegoating on a weaker group. Violence as a means to power or for its own sake. More of a method than ideology.

I hope everybody admits that's a bad thing, and shouldn't be allowed a voice in government.
That's really all there is to it.
 
Thanks for the history lesson Captain Obvious.

It's August 2017 and the left's only argument is STILL "everyone who disagrees with me is a racist/fascist/Nazi".

Let that sink in..
 
Oh look, what do we have here: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/racist-graffiti-saying-no-whites-11003123

Racist graffiti saying 'no whites allowed after 8pm' sparks outrage in UK city

Racist graffiti reading "no whites allowed after 8pm" has sparked outrage in UK city.

The hate message was spotted scrawled on a wall in Alum Rock, Birmingham.

A picture of the slur went viral after it appeared on a Facebook page called Brumz Updates last weekend, the Birmingham Mail reports.

The original posting, which has now been deleted, read: “Apparently this was spotted in Alum Rock yesterday.

In 2009 a controversial government report about immigration suggested white working class Brummies feared parts of the city had become no-go areas for them.

Researchers for the Department of Communities and Local Government quizzed residents from Castle Vale about their feelings on immigration.

Among the many concerns raised was the claim that white people were not welcome in parts of Birmingham at night.

The report quoted an anonymous male contributor, aged in his 40s, who noted that others from outside the area would consider his neighbourhood a no-go area for them, too
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LiquidMethod said:
Thanks for the history lesson Captain Obvious.
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more insults. please stop. i invite you to hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others.

LiquidMethod said:
It's August 2017 and the left's only argument is STILL "everyone who disagrees with me is a racist/fascist/Nazi".
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nobody is saying that. please stop exaggerating.

alasdair
 
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effingcustie said:
No, actually it comes down to extremist right-wing hate groups inciting violence. Nobody is telling them how to think. If members of that community feel the statue is offensive and choose to put pressure on their elected officials who then choose to remove it, that is perfectly within their rights, and those who feel it should not be removed are perfectly entitled to protest that action. Nobody is being told what to think about the statue or it's removal.

I get that these rightwing snowflakes with a victim complex FEEL LIKE they're being told how to think since our culture is mostly intolerant of their hateful beliefs, but that doesn't mean they are. They're free to have their beliefs, and the rest of us are free to find them repugnant and tell them so.



Agreed. :)

edit: well agreed that all STATUES of thomas jefferson honoring him as an honorable person should be removed, in my opinion. historical references should not, and that did not happen here, a statue was removed because members of that community didn't want it there. nobody is pretending robert e lee never existed.
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Sorry, i could not find the old statue thread.

Just like Political Correctness, removing statues is absolutely telling people what to think. Claiming otherwise is taking a very narrow view of the world. It's telling people to forget their past, to forget history. Are you familiar with Sherman's March to the Sea? He inflicted a scorched earth policy of warfare that destroyed everything in the South.It was not limited to the slave-economy infratstructure (the elite 1% of the population own slaves) but destroyed the property and livelihoods of the rest of the 99% as well. The damage was so severe that by the 1880s, the economy was nowhere near to recovery. The builders of the statues saw Lee and Jackson as heros who were defending them from a merciliess invader. The Charlottesvill Town Council is telling people that viewpoint, despite eing supported by the preponderance of historical data, is wrong and that anybody who says otherwise is a Racist.

Whether the past is glorious or horrible is irrevelevant. Everyone knows the quote, "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it." The past is recorded in the form of monuments such as these, war trophies, gulags, and concentration camps. Removing or destroying thme is erasing history.

Aushwitz and Dachau were two of the worst concentration camps. They are preserved as reminders. What if some SJW mayor in the towns where those concentration camps are located decided she didn't want them around any more? Worse, what if the residents supported her opinion and told her to bulldoze them? Removing the statues is the same in many ways and there is more to it than their being symbols of oppresion.

While the SJW town councils are at it, they need to not only remove Thom. Jefferson (founder of UVA) statues, which you agree, but they need to remove every monument to Jefferson. They need to bulldoze UVA.It is a monument to him, in a way. Worse, it was built by slave labor. Remove every statue and non-condemming historical reference, from every where of every US president and General who owned slaves. That would include Washington, Adams, Monroe, and General Grant. They should go even further and remove all monuments of Lincoln. Lincoln advocated for a system of Apartheid and was never in favor of freeing the slaves until it became a last ditch effort to weaken the South in an unpopular war before the next presidential election.

I hope people see that pIcking on Conferderate monuments is hypocritical. It does not surprise me that neofascists are going to rally around it.
 
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Dude. you didn't actually respond to anything I said.

How would you feel having to walk by a statue of a man that fought to enslave your ancestors every day? I'm sure many legitimately idolize Robert E Lee, there's also another side to it. You would probably want it moved. No, moving a statue is not an effort to erase history. It's a fucking absurd argument. Nobody is taking him out of any history books or museums.

If the people of Charlottesville democratically decide to move a statue, that's their right. If people want to protest it, that's their right. If people want to protest the protesters, that's their right too. That's how America works. There is a diversity of opinion and experience, we have the freedom to speak our grievances, and then we make laws and decisions through a democratic process. I'm sorry some white people are butthurt that other people don't like their guy, but they have to suck it up and it's not an excuse to threaten people with violence.
 
effingcustie said:
Dude. you didn't actually respond to anything I said.

How would you feel having to walk by a statue of a man that fought to enslave your ancestors every day? I'm sure many legitimately idolize Robert E Lee, there's also another side to it. You would probably want it moved. No, moving a statue is not an effort to erase history. It's a fucking absurd argument. Nobody is taking him out of any history books or museums.

If the people of Charlottesville democratically decide to move a statue, that's their right. If people want to protest it, that's their right. If people want to protest the protesters, that's their right too. That's how America works.
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Removing a statue of Lee is similar to removing a concentration camp, be it German or American or Soviet. These statues need to be left where they are as daily reminders of a horrible past.

The issue of Lee himself is more complicated than the media gives it credit. The "heritage" aspect is minor. He was viewed as a symbol of reconciliation after the war. He supported Reconstruction. His view on slavery and it being the reason he fought is not what the media and SJWs say it is either. In the middle of the war, he called for the emancipation of slaves. By this point, he was clearly not fighting to keep them in chains. The cause was by this time to preserve the Confederacy of the states that had legally (at that time ) seceded.

It is not the right of the local town council to remove a form of recorded history. Whether or not the residents want them removed is irrelevant. Destroying historical artifacts robs everyone of history. How many people have heard of Andersonville POW camp? It was a Confederate pow camp with a death rate that rivaled auschwitz. It was destroyed. History repeated itself.
There need to be federal laws to preserve these things.

The neofascists were wrong to even show up. They wanted trouble. It should have been a peaceful protest done by history buffs.
 
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alasdairm said:
as i said earlier, in context and given his timeline it was no condemnation.
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He has condemned racism for over 17 years, not sure what exactly you want from him? A reason to get mad?
He condemned all the political violence and even the right-wing racist extremists (again).

Bit of double standards too? I don't remember Obama getting on TV during the violence at Baltimore, Ferguson riots..
He didn't even denounce BLM after one of their extremists executed 5 policemen. He then allowed them in the White House...

Also this is interesting, the white supremacist organizer of Charlottesville, Jason Kessler, was an Occupy Wall St activist and an Obama supporter! 8(

For anyone who hasn't seen it, there's a Vice News documentary about the events in Charlottesville that shows this Chris Cantewell, a supposed organizer of the 'Unite the Right' march, throwing his guns around and acting all white supremacy. A couple of days later here he is crying like a baby because the cops might come and arrest him. The really funny thing is is that there is NO arrest warrant for this person. Because he's a blowhard idiot and nothing more.
Can everyone please quit with the hysterical 'White supremacists are taking over America" nonsense that is being sown by the media. It is patently obvious for any rational human being that these 'white supremacists' are brain-dead idiots and the idea that they could 'take over America' is utter horseshit.
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you claimed (actually implied) obama did not condemn the baltimore/ferguson riots. i have proved conclusively that he did.

dallas was a different incident and i agree he could have said more.

alasdair
 
Half of the country think You can support/side with Nazis/KKK and be a "fine person" I was actually very surprised to hear this poll from CBS i think it was.

45% of americans believe trumps comments on C-ville were proper. The comments where he said many fine people marched with KKK and Nazis...If you're marching with Nazis that organized the rally, you're not a fine person...but half of america thinks so,

To hear this was shocking. You have MANY of the leading GOP congressmen condeming trumps viewpoint. 67 percent of republican voters polled agreed with what trump said...67 percent.

Racism is not just a fringe thing. Its so big I can't believe it this really opened my eyes to how bad it actually is.
 
socko said:
Removing a statue of Lee is similar to removing a concentration camp, be it German or American or Soviet. These statues need to be left where they are as daily reminders of a horrible past.

The issue of Lee himself is more complicated than the media gives it credit. The "heritage" aspect is minor. He was viewed as a symbol of reconciliation after the war. He supported Reconstruction. His view on slavery and it being the reason he fought is not what the media and SJWs say it is either. In the middle of the war, he called for the emancipation of slaves. By this point, he was clearly not fighting to keep them in chains. The cause was by this time to preserve the Confederacy of the states that had legally (at that time ) seceded.

It is not the right of the local town council to remove a form of recorded history. Whether or not the residents want them removed is irrelevant. Destroying historical artifacts robs everyone of history. How many people have heard of Andersonville POW camp? It was a Confederate pow camp with a death rate that rivaled auschwitz. It was destroyed. History repeated itself.
There need to be federal laws to preserve these things.

The neofascists were wrong to even show up. They wanted trouble. It should have been a peaceful protest done by history buffs.
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removed statues are not destroyed they are put into museums and preserved for the historical aspect. Sort of like a holocaust museam.

They do not belong in plain view in town squares if the citizens vote to have them removed. America doesn't work like that, the citizens are supposed to get what they want.
 
there seems to be a misconception that these statues are relics from the confederate era. for the most part they're not - many of the statues of confederate generals and such were erected by white supremacists in the 50s and 60s, as a response/reaction to the civil rights movement.

this isn't about destruction of heritage or history, that's a red herring - and why you're unlikely to see real "history buffs" defending these monuments to racist policy.
 
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Socko et al., the thread that already discussed the second-place trophies coming down

They were put up to intimidate, they should come down.

Oh right, nazis pissed some people off and they destroyed some public property in like two places. That's bad and they should feel bad.

We still have white supremists in the highest law enforcement position, and advising the president. Don't let a hunk of bronze racist coming down distract you from that.

ETA: seconding astrojunk: A lot of "heritage" came to be when blacks started making a fuss about being allowed to vote for-realsie, and the police responded with dogs and firehoses. And arson and murder. I'm not sure what the permit status was.
 
Allah forbid the guy acted on the emotion of sorrow and anxiety, and gave a speech saying that.

Far worse than a twitter-shit at 4am.

Steve Bannon tells him what to say at these things, just like when he left Jews out of his Holocaust Remembrance speech.

I don't understand why some people are defending this still.
 
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