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Charlottesville, Virginia

I think they care less about one person being murdered and nineteen injured than about the symbolism and implications of the entire spectacle. This is not to say they don't view the death and injuries as tragic. The words they use to describe the situation are verrückt and traurig (sad). Verrückt is a bit harder to translate directly, but in this case 'sick/crazy' would probably be the best one to one.

In Germany we have our own problems with nazi/white supremacy mainly in the east. It is hard to pinpoint the exact cause, but there is a distinct inequality with relation to the economy, primarily in smaller cities/towns, between former West and East Germany.
 
Shimmer.Fade said:
I think they care less about one person being murdered and nineteen injured than about the symbolism and implications of the entire spectacle. This is not to say they don't view the death and injuries as tragic. The words they use to describe the situation are verrückt and traurig (sad). Verrückt is a bit harder to translate directly, but in this case 'sick/crazy' would probably be the best one to one.

In Germany we have our own problems with nazi/white supremacy mainly in the east. It is hard to pinpoint the exact cause, but there is a distinct economic inequality, primarily in smaller cities/towns, between former West and East Germany
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You guys also still have a dormant lying anti-semitism amongst your populace which I hope never surfaces again. Every single anti-semitic person I've ever met in my life has been either Russian, Arab or German (with Germans probably being the worst).

Whats up with that??
 
Fresco said:
You guys also have a dormant lying anti-semitism amongst your populace which I hope never surfaces again. Every single anti-semitic person I've ever met in my life has been either Russian, Arab or German (with Germans probably being the worst).

Whats up with that??
Click to expand...

After living here I can't disagree more. Germany is by far the most tolerant country I have ever lived in. If you listen to the Dutch they have nothing good to say about Germany, but that is more of a historical thing due to them being swamp Germans. Yet, even the Dutch can pack up their campers and drive to vacation without any hassle.

One of the reasons I moved away from the USA was the discrimination and intolerance of those who are different. In my hometown institutionalized discrimination and racism is still rampant.

Not really much, "up with that", because 'that' contradicts nearly all statistics/literature. I am certainly open to reading information demonstrating the supposed, "latent anti-semitism".
 
Fresco said:
You guys also still have a dormant lying anti-semitism amongst your populace which I hope never surfaces again. Every single anti-semitic person I've ever met in my life has been either Russian, Arab or German (with Germans probably being the worst).

Whats up with that??
Click to expand...

Every single?

I live in an area with a very large Jewish Community in New York State and can tell you that anti-Semites come from every background. Especially when they are teenagers spouting nonsense that they either don't understand, or don't believe, just to be dickhead teenagers.

But there are certainly anti-Semites from many other backgrounds than Russia, Arabia, or Germany.

Also, my understanding is that Germans have by and large gone to great lengths to educate and eradicate antisemitism.
 
spacejunk said:
you say a lot of ridiculous things. blm aren't a terrorist organisation, but the kkk are.

jahseeus, it seems like you're trying to play the SS game of setting up some kinda "gotcha" moment where i admit to being pro-violence.
i've never pretended i don't suppport militant antifascism. ignoring nazis doesn't make them go away. that's the sort of complacency that has got the USA into this position, especially with regards to your "president".
i think communities should stand up to hateful mobs parading around with weapons and flaming torches, and i'm proud of all the comrades that do.
it's an old line, but my grandparents didn't vote for nazis (or "ignore" them) - they shot them.

DHFUb0AVwAIi6Rl.jpg


if we're picking sides, i'm with the cats with the spray can flame thrower, rather than the angry rednecks.
what about john oliver? i've not watched his show for ages.
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I find it hard to believe that you can't see the problem (and glaring similarities to those you oppose) with using violence and violent rhetoric to dispose of those you don't agree with.

Ignoring Nazi's might not make them go away, but in modern society's infatuation with media, showing up and getting sucked to their level is no way to help the situation. Providing more material for them to spew to younger generations and trap them in shitty thought processes.

I have already admitted I may be wrong about ignoring "Nazi's" or any other "hate-group", but there is certainly a better way to go about it than what is seen here.

Big Time LOL @ claiming complacency and "[my "president"]. There was so much hype and coverage of Trump, it is laughable to say that anyone was complacent.

Also, he is the president of the U.S.A. so I don't know why you put it in parentheses. Whether I agree with him or not, whether I voted for him or not. He is the elected president and "leader" of this country.

As far as following in your grandparents violent foot steps. Grow the fuck up and learn to think for yourself.

There is at least one other side to choose, that of non-violence and intellectual discourse. Maybe it doesn't get anything done. But in these cases violence certainly doesn't either.

The Jon Oliver comment was in reference to your reference of tiki torches.
 
Last edited:
I know I said before I wouldn't post here again, but I feel I must clarify a few things.

SpaceJam made a few statements that gave me pause to think and do some research. Now you're gonna have to forgive me because I'm in my 70's and was under the impression that the "Alt Right" was roughly equivalent to constitutional conservatives so when he labeled me one I did not refute it even though I'm nowhere near that right leaning. I did however read up on what the "alt Right" actually is. I almost never watch news, or much TV for that matter. My life is far too busy for any of that stuff.

I can't believe there are people who still think that way, and there is no way I could condone anything like this. I concede that these are evil vile people who should not be given any support. Why did the ACLU support them to get a permit?

There are more layers to this incident than an onion

At any rate I just wanted to set the record straight.
 
Shimmer.Fade said:
After living here I can't disagree more. Germany is by far the most tolerant country I have ever lived in. If you listen to the Dutch they have nothing good to say about Germany, but that is more of a historical thing due to them being swamp Germans. Yet, even the Dutch can pack up their campers and drive to vacation without any hassle.

One of the reasons I moved away from the USA was the discrimination and intolerance of those who are different. In my hometown institutionalized discrimination and racism is still rampant.

Not really much, "up with that", because 'that' contradicts nearly all statistics/literature. I am certainly open to reading information demonstrating the supposed, "latent anti-semitism"
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Maybe I should have clarified better, the German anti-semites I met were all living in North-America, and were of German descent who AFAIK havent been living in Germany for many years. Maybe that has something to do with it??

While I agree with you that Germany has come a long way to eradicate it, I still feel some of the spores are lying somewhat dormant.
Lets hope they are never resuscitated.

BTW I havent been back in Germany for 15 years. I really miss your beer
 
I find it hard to believe that you can't see the problem (and glaring similarities to those you oppose) with using violence and violent rhetoric to dispose of those you don't agree with.

Ignoring Nazi's might not make them go away, but in modern society's infatuation with media, showing up and getting sucked to their level is no way to help the situation. Providing more material for them to spew to younger generations and trap them in shitty thought processes.

I have already admitted I may be wrong about ignoring "Nazi's" or any other "hate-group", but there is certainly a better way to go about it than what is seen here.

Big Time LOL @ claiming complacency and "[my "president"]. There was so much hype and coverage of Trump, it is laughable to say that anyone was complacent.

Also, he is the president of the U.S.A. so I don't know why you put it in parentheses. Whether I agree with him or not, whether I voted for him or not. He is the elected president and "leader" of this country.

As far as following in your grandparents violent foot steps. Grow the fuck up and learn to think for yourself.

There is at least one other side to choose, that of non-violence and intellectual discourse. Maybe it doesn't get anything done. But in these cases violence certainly doesn't either.

The Jon Oliver comment was in reference to your reference of tiki torches.
Click to expand...


tiki torches were mentioned all over the place. i'm not sure what that has to do with john oliver.

that's great, if you're happy for nazi thugs to come to your town and bash people - stay home and play video games or whatever. i'm not telling you what to do.
i believe in community solidarity against these sort of people, so i don't welcome them or ignore them.
people that stand up to this shit are really brave, and i commend them.

there's no "intellectual discourse" to be had with nazis. they don't seem too interested in talking.
 
spacejunk said:
there's no "intellectual discourse" to be had with nazis. they don't seem too interested in talking
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I'm just curious, but would you say the same about radical muslims?? Not necessarily terrorists but radicals who believe in Sharia law and that infidels should live separate, but dont believe in terrorism per se
 
i don't know - they're not the same so i'm not going to say one is worse than the other.

also, i see a lot of nazi bullshit floating around these days, but i only know muslims that are nice people.
i've never met or spoken to an IS supporter online, but i think they're both completely toxic and dangerous ideologies.

white supremacists are a greater threat to the west than radical muslims, if that's what you're asking.
 
spacejunk said:
white supremacists are a greater threat to the west than radical muslims, if that's what you're asking
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Thats what I thought you would say.

I think the exact opposite, radical muslims are much more inclined to bomb the crap out of a concert or airport and kill as many people as possible. They are also much better organized and better equipped with bombs and weapons.

I'm not saying neo-nazi's are also not capable, but when you look at all the terrorist attacks over last 10 years in Europe and North-America, radical muslims FAR outbomb any other group. Its not even remotely close
 
white supremacists kill a lot more americans than islamic terrorists.

muslim terrorists aren't going to take over the USA. nationalists already have...so they're obviously the bigger threat.

if you doubt their violent intentions, read some of unhinged shit they say, do and write. nazis aren't pacifists.

as for who bombs the most people, the US army bombs a lot more than any other army or group. and they arm terrorists...

but this thread is about neoo-nazis in charlottesville, lets not make it another thread beating up on muslims.
 
spacejunk said:
tiki torches were mentioned all over the place. i'm not sure what that has to do with john oliver.

that's great, if you're happy for nazi thugs to come to your town and bash people - stay home and play video games or whatever. i'm not telling you what to do.
i believe in community solidarity against these sort of people, so i don't welcome them or ignore them.
people that stand up to this shit are really brave, and i commend them.

there's no "intellectual discourse" to be had with nazis. they don't seem too interested in talking.
Click to expand...

If no one heeded them any mind they would walk down empty streets with no one in sight to bash. They haven't gone around grabbing random citizens and beating / hanging them for some time. At least not at these sort of "demonstrations".

you can stand up to this shit without violence.
 
so, people should hide away from these reprobates so they have "no one in sight to bash"?
i don't think you've thought this through.
ignoring the people doesn't make them go away.
 
JahSEEuS said:
They haven't gone around grabbing random citizens and beating / hanging them for some time. At least not at these sort of "demonstrations".
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Actually, it happened at this rally: http://www.theroot.com/interview-20-year-old-deandre-harris-speaks-out-about-1797796038

These people aren't here to have an intellectual debate. There's no point to still even listening to whatever ridiculous mental gymnastics based on absurd false equivalencies they'll fabricate to justify using the threat of armed violent terrorism as a first amendment right. Violence is the only language they speak, it is the basis of their ideology. If the state isn't willing to wield it against them (curious the police response to this "protest" vs a BLM rally of unarmed protesters [again another RIDICULOUS false equivalency to compare these two groups]), someone else has to. This was not a rally about political ideas, it was an effort to terrorize and intimidate with the threat (and in some cases physical act) of violence.
 
there's a lot of partisan finger pointing after the fact here but citizens and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum agree that a clear, decisive statement from the president was appropriate here and that's not what he chose to do...

alasdair
 
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