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Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Gnostic Bishop

Gnostic Bishop

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Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

All believers in God are following an entity that they only know by what other people have said about that God. Few, if any, know their God from apotheosis or first-hand information.

That fact makes whoever that God is, an idol.

It must be so, as what is believed is not a known or real entity. Believers have no real or personal knowledge or experience of their God. All a believer can have is faith in whichever God they are idolizing based on what others have said.

Do you, as a believer, recognize that you are an idolwor shiper?

Regards
DL
 
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These jealous "Gods" are really just personifications of the Demiurge. The wrathful, vengeful, egotistical creator of this physical world in which we are trapped. Am I right, Gnostic Bishop?
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
I think reality matters as well as poor thinking.

It matters, in these times, because people are killing for their imaginary Gods.

Regards
DL
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I think people have always killed for their gods. Most religious do claim they have some kind of personal experience with their god. They pray, claim to get answers, feel the holy spirit on conversion, have visions, see signs, etc.
 
GaryGlisten said:
These jealous "Gods" are really just personifications of the Demiurge. The wrathful, vengeful, egotistical creator of this physical world in which we are trapped. Am I right, Gnostic Bishop?
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I'd tend to agree. What kind of a mature or loving god is jealous of it's creation or allows suffering on the scale we see in the world?
 
GaryGlisten said:
These jealous "Gods" are really just personifications of the Demiurge. The wrathful, vengeful, egotistical creator of this physical world in which we are trapped. Am I right, Gnostic Bishop?
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In terms of the Gnostic Christian myths, absolutely.

Do remember that they are myths that we invented to go against the myths that Christianity invented when they were God seekers like Gnostic Christians. That was before Christians became idol worshipers.

Regards
DL
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
I think people have always killed for their gods. Most religious do claim they have some kind of personal experience with their god. They pray, claim to get answers, feel the holy spirit on conversion, have visions, see signs, etc.
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Yes, most religions do claim those, --- which shows quite clearly that most religions are based on lies.

Regards
DL
 
Well you'd have to be able to prove that.

IMO most human affairs are based on lies but once again I might have trouble proving that beyond doubt. Yet like religion I'm satisfied with what evidence I have. However in a philosophical debate I'd not put that forward as you have done here. I have no need.
 
It is said that you cannot Know God. Or the Hindu's say "That you can only Know what God is not" "He is not this; not that" Or he is hyper-everything I am THAT I am. An idol made up of Everything and Nothing?
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
All believers in God are following an entity that they only know by what other people have said about that God. Few, if any, know their God from apotheosis or first-hand information.
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Why are the two things mutually exclusive? What you're suggesting is that if someone doesn't arrive at God in vacuo, then they're just an idol worshiper. Almost everything we know and are has come from other humans, at least initially, whereas wisdom tempers it with personal experience. By your same premise, we should discount all knowledge if we didn't arrive at it solo.

I propose that... outside knowledge can provide a framework that can point us in the direction of something, or explain an experience we've already had. Just because someone taught me about their understanding of God does not mean I have the same relationship with God. I may choose to extrapolate on their understanding or discard it all together. It's about resonance and love.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
Well you'd have to be able to prove that.

IMO most human affairs are based on lies but once again I might have trouble proving that beyond doubt. Yet like religion I'm satisfied with what evidence I have. However in a philosophical debate I'd not put that forward as you have done here. I have no need.
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If you do not want to believe that a book that has talking animals in it is not fiction/lies, then there is no proof I can give you.

Happily, it is those who make religious claims that have the onus to prove or disprove them. My calling it all lies is just an opinion, and other than reality, I have no proof either.

Some will believe reality and some will not.

Regards
DL
 
Foreigner said:
Why are the two things mutually exclusive? What you're suggesting is that if someone doesn't arrive at God in vacuo, then they're just an idol worshiper. Almost everything we know and are has come from other humans, at least initially, whereas wisdom tempers it with personal experience. By your same premise, we should discount all knowledge if we didn't arrive at it solo.
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No. But true knowledge and information stands up to scrutiny. Religious so called knowledge does not. Hence the reliance on faith without facts.

We presently accept scientific theories only because they are replica-table.

Jesus preached that what he did was replica-table by any believer yet none have risen to that believer state which indicates that there are either a lot of Christian liars or that Jesus himself lied.

I propose that... outside knowledge can provide a framework that can point us in the direction of something, or explain an experience we've already had. Just because someone taught me about their understanding of God does not mean I have the same relationship with God. I may choose to extrapolate on their understanding or discard it all together. It's about resonance and love.
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I can agree with the resonance part but do not see what love has to do with accepting propositions or not.

Unless you would believe someone you love over someone you did not love for the same idea.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
If you do not want to believe that a book that has talking animals in it is not fiction/lies, then there is no proof I can give you.

Happily, it is those who make religious claims that have the onus to prove or disprove them. My calling it all lies is just an opinion, and other than reality, I have no proof either.

Some will believe reality and some will not.

Regards
DL
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As I said I'm not a believer but as to "reality" there is much debate about whether we are privy to that.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
No one knows of all reality but I think we can firmly state that there are no serpents or donkeys that can speak human.

Regards
DL
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I must deny this notion. You can definitely be speaking in Ass. This being a drug forum you should also appreciate the hissing in the ears when someone is trying to sell you "high quality" bunk.
 
Honestly, I believe that cheese is a real thing since I can feel, see, and smell it. I don't particularly idolize it though, nor worship it.

If I were to believe/know in God I think it would play out much the same.

I idolize members here.
 
Nixiam said:
Honestly, I believe that cheese is a real thing since I can feel, see, and smell it. I don't particularly idolize it though, nor worship it.

If I were to believe/know in God I think it would play out much the same.

I idolize members here.
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Idolizing whore.

Just kidding my gregarious friend.

Regards
DL
 
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