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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Subutex and Norco Suggested By Clinic Counselor

J

JayJolie

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
91
Hello all. I am new to this so please bare with me as I hope I have found the correct forum to post this on.
I've had a sever Norco addiction for 4+ years now (400mg-600mg daily). I also take benzo's (Klonopin) which is a legally prescribed medicine. After struggling to get clean from the Norco on my own for the last 2 months, I finally did some research and decided to admit myself into a Methadone Clinic. I'm not using this clinic as a "lifer"...they've put me on a one year plan to be off all medicines. Also, I should mention that I'm taking Subutex and not Methadone. Yesterday was my first day going to the clinic and dosing. When I expressed concern to my counselor about going through WD's once the Subutex wears off before I can dose again (it's my understanding they start you off on a low dose and then you increase until you can make it 24 hours without feeling WD's), she actually suggested that I take Norco to help. Now, I totally fell in love with my counselor from the start yesterday. We instantly bonded and we spent about 5 hours together...I thought she really listened and really put me at ease as I was a total basket case. My questions are, 1. Would I even feel Norco since Subutex blocks your receptors? 2. Won't I get in trouble at the clinic when I drug test again and Norco shows up?
Just to clarify, I'm in no way looking to get high or get a buzz or anything. I am very serious about my recovery. However, my Subutex did wear off fairly quickly yesterday and my WD symptoms were almost unbearable. I ended up taking 4mg of my Klonopin just to try and ease it a little. And, yes, I know the risk of mixing benzo's with the Subutex. However, it didn't help that much. I still didn't get any sleep, had the sweats and chills most of the day and all night, was very tense in all my muscles (especially my jaw as I was grinding my teeth), etc. I really did want to break down and try taking some pain pills to see if they would help. My Subutex dose yesterday was 8mg, today they dosed me at 12mg. I'm not feeling many WD symptoms at the moment besides being kind of clammy and having an upset stomach. Of course, I'm worried that like yesterday, the Subutex will again wear off and my heavy WD symptoms will return. So...do I take my counselors advice and supplement with the Norco?? I mean, she kind of told me this as a "just between you and me" kind of thing, you know...like don't tell the Dr I said this was ok BUT you could help yourself kind of thing. I mean, do the clinics expect that heavy users will supplement their selves during the first week or so to get through WD's until the Subutex dosage is enough?? I'm so confused. Was also wondering how quickly you become dependent on the Subutex? Is it immediate? Not that Im planning to do this, but say I didn't make it tomorrow in time to dose...would my body go into instant shock from missing the Subutex? So many questions!!! Any advice is much appreciated! Thank you. Also, is there any way to make the Subutex stay in your system longer? I read somewhere that taking Benadryl with it or taking Tagament could prolong it...but that could be total nonsense. Again, to clarify, I'm serious about recovery. I'm not trying to get a high or even a buzz. Just trying to keep WD's at bay enough that I can actually function. Thanks all!
 
Subutex and Norco

Has anyone seen the question I posted about this in the forum on other drugs?? No one has replied to it and was thinking maybe I didn't post it in the proper place???
 
Hiya Jay whatever you do please don't mix norco and subs, you will cause yourself to go into precipated withdrawls. If you took 8mg yesterday and 12mg sub today, and skip tomorrow you would be fine for a couple days, sub half life is approx 36hours. You probably should research a little about the subs, but please dont mix norco with it. If you are on subs for pain then you need to let them know it isn't holding you but if you are on the subs for maintainence it may take a few doses to get you stabilized. I know that tagamet and benadryl potentiate the subs, never had success though for me. Anyway hope you are doing ok, hang in there, fondly, bono
 
I don't see that you made any other thread but his one. It would be easier to read if you edited this so it's not one big wall of text. Then you may get more responses. I'm glad you found an understanding counselor. You can beat this, Jay!
 
I guess I mainly don't understand why the counselor would tell me to supplement my sub dose with Norco if I needed to. I'm on the subs so I can stop my Norco habit. I've done a lot of research on everything but it's all still new to me and still very confusing. Thank you for the info, bono.
 
T. Calderone said:
I don't see that you made any other thread but his one. It would be easier to read if you edited this so it's not one big wall of text. Then you may get more responses. I'm glad you found an understanding counselor. You can beat this, Jay!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the words of encouragement!! I'm super determined. And thanks for the info on how to post...this is my first time in the site so still figuring it all out.
 
So, in my weakness, I broke down and took 2 Norco. Really could barely tell I took anything...maybe a tiny feeling that lasted about 30 minutes. I was just trying to get through these WD's. I know it takes a while to get on the right dosage. Tomorrow they're bumping me up to 16mg. The Dr thinks I should be on at least 30mg but I am so dead set on beating all of this (the Sub included) that I want to just take the minimal dose that will get me by until my next dose.
I did, however, let myself take a benzo and that has seemed to help significantly today. Maybe I'll actually sleep some tonight...its been 4 days!! I know I brought all this discomfort on myself but it would be really nice to just sleep tonight!!
 
I believe that for this type of medication, less is more - so to speak.
 
so just an update. Yesterday once I could really tell my Subutex dosage had gone away and was getting into bad WD's, I took 2 more Norco and I could feel them. Not anywhere near the feeling I used to get but that isn't what I'm chasing anymore. I just wanted a little relaxation and to get some sleep. So I took the 2 Norco around 8pm and then took a Xanax bar around 11 and I woke up at 5amthis morning. So happy to have FINALLY gotten some sleep. Thought I was on the verge of beginning to hallucinate!! Anyway, I go in to see my Dr today in about 2 hours. I know they're upping the Subutex from 12 mg to 16 mg today. So Monday I tried 8mg, Tuesday and Wednesday I did 12, today will put me to 16mg. The Dr thinks I'll need to be around 30mg...but I really hope not. Hoping I can find relief at a smaller dose so that I can begin to wean down fairly quickly. I am so ready to be done with all of this. Especially the illegal opiate addiction. I know people want to give methadone clinics a stigma, but I truly believe I've found the place that is saving my life!
Anyway, just wanted to update. Everyone have a blessed day.
 
Erikmen said:
I believe that for this type of medication, less is more - so to speak.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the Subutex? I just want something that gets me through my 24 hours...not looking to get a euphoric feeling or anything. From what I've found, the Subs just make me feel normal. And I didn't think I'd ever have that feeling again.
 
I have taken tramadol while on subs. They worked good together for me. I think you need a new doctor. Her advice is a recipe for some intense pain. I've seen a few threads with doctors telling others the same thing. Makes me wonder how these doctors even passed their med courses.
 
Yea drs/council/etc R not always the greatest with this stuff...

That was kinda stupid to tell you to take Hydrocodone (norco) while on Buprenorphine (subutex,suboxone same thing the naloxone makes no difference unless allergic or sensitive)

I have said before that hydrocodone is a good way to fight off the wds from trying to come off a long stint of, truely wanted rehab/ort, using bupe. If u can truly trust yourself with a few norco and not get back into

However u can rarely feel the Hydrocodone until almost all of the bupe is gone... I mean days in some cases...

Like the above poster said... For some reason tramadol will kinda synergize with the bupe. Idk Y... It does work tho. Especially being on low dose bupe, which is always better anyways. I've got an enormous tolerance and I was quickly able to force myself down to about 4mg a day then to 2mg a day n now I take even less. This is without any extra opiates.

However if u get your hands on tramadol PLZ god read up on it, u can only take so much per day. U mentioned u take benzos too. As do I, mainly the same as u clonazepam but any I can get since my Dr lost his license. If ur in any kind of benzo wd or shortage do not play around with large amounts of tramadol. Seizure city. Plus plenty to learn about serotonin syndrome n etc.

Anyways. Just don't take ANY more Hydrocodone. Ull just make it harder for the subutex to take away the wds.

And it takes a while, maybe a week to feel any kind of normal once on a stable continued same dose of subutex daily.

I can't believe they didn't just have you take some in the morning and some around dinner time, like both my sub drs recommend that I do, since even bupe wears off on me super super fast. The efficacy of it anyhow. The half-life is rediculous tho n ull have a ton still built up in u even if feeling rough waiting til next dose time.

Also can't believe they let u keep your clonazepam, and trust me, that wd is much, much worse than most any opiate wd. Or possibly any drug.

Your clonazepam shoulda helped u be basically fine, it's even better than taking any hydrocodone theoretically for what your saying.

But I'd get prepared to face the fact of... U won't be able to use any other substance but the subutex or the clinic will kick u/discipline somehow. My first sub Dr made me sign several things about absolutely no benzos, Rx or not.
Second one basically wasn't gonna give me my subs anymore if I kept getting my clonazepam refilled. However was willing to Rx that once I could go wo the subs. Now I'm fd and the local mental health services place tried throwing me into methadone when I'm already so far down tapered on suboxone. Wtf? Even said oh it will cover the benzo wds too, which was really Y I was there... Haven't ran out of sub yet and was totally honest. Got me no where. You kinda have to self educate on this stuff imo, drs will give conflicting information and will lie even to look right. Like my GP tried telling me people died of pot overdoses and that she can't give me any clonazepam or similar until I quit, and she thinks a week was enough to pass a test too... Not even close "Dr" takes several weeks. Shows u they are sometimes just full of it. And she was nice as can be just like u said.

Do you get these only at the clinic? Like methadone clinic rules, but ur taking subutex?? (And I know a place near me does this)

Just stick it out n be patient. You are " lucky", like I said that u even have the clonazepam to go along w it. I'd even ask this nice person if they plan to help u with weaning off the benzos, or if it wont be an issue, cuz u would really need to prepare for that.
idk Y so many drs think u can just c/t a benzo. It's super dangerous, and a long taper can prevent permanent irreversible damage and side effects.

My first couple days last time I had to get back on subs from Heroin, I felt nearly in precipitated wds, and I had even waited for about 3 days... There is a thread on here somewhere about that. I even had plenty of benzos too, thankfully as I was a freaking wreck those first days even on the subs/bupe

Just keep up the subutex regimen... U wont get that feeling u had on norco ever... But u will eventually not be in partial wd once you get stable on it for a good week or so.

And BTW... U cannot get precipitated withdrawals by having Buprenorphine (subutex suboxone etc, any of them ) in you FIRST and then an opiate

You get them if your opiate receptors R still saturated with an opiate and the Buprenorphine replaces it n rips it off the receptors. Example. If some poor soul lies about how long since last dose of thier heroin, oxycodone, Hydrocodone/norco (or any opiate basically other than bupe) or saying in bad wds but actually not yet ... Like especially ORALLY taken controlled release pills such as Oxy-contin or MS-Contin. They can need several days if not more of abstinence from in order to not feel the wicked thing that is precipitated withdrawal.

Best example trying to switch from methadone to Buprenorphine. That's gotta be hell on earth opiate wise.

Best of luck op ... Stay on the subutex, don't just go back n get high or use at all. I'd say no norcos period, idc if u can feel them or not, ur just ruiningvthe chance of the bupe doing right for u.

I'd just ride this out, u have most of the hard part past you by the sound of it.

Sry so long, but hope I helped a lil
 
Do not let them put u at 30mgs omg I just caught that. Bupe is only really good at about 4 mg max and anything over that honestly is just to prevent you from being able to get high on any other opiates by saturating your opiate receptors with bupe.

Geez u could honestly end up waay worse off taking the 30 that Dr is crazy... And likely said 32 I'm guessing. Which is typically known as the max possible u can take. Even a severe fentynal addict would never need to be dosed that high omg. And with knowing u take benzos he said that?!! Wow. That's nuts. Try staying at 12. U can search n find a ton of info Y less Buprenorphine is not only safer, but can even feel better...
Good luck
 
^ this. Times 10.

You do NOT need to be up to 30 mg of subutex. For a Norco habit?!? That's so wrong it's should be malpractice.

People who have 1g + per day heroin habits can be held at 4-8 mg daily.

It takes a few days for your body to adjust. It adjusts better if you stop the Norco. Taking more subutex won't make you feel better. The drug doesn't really work like that. Once you saturate the receptors you saturate them. Most people feel no different at anything above 8 mg.

Best thing I can tell you is stop where you are. Let your body adjust. Especially if you plan to be off everything in a year you don't want to take such a high dose of subutex and increase your tolerance tenfold. If you go up to 30 / 32 mg subutex I can guarantee you that your tolerance will be far beyond a few Norco doing a thing for you.

Read some of the bupe threads here and in Other Drugs, and gain a better understanding of how this med works. And congrats on getting on a better path
 
Bupe has a ceiling dose. Basically it saturates your receptors so no more bupe can bond with them. 4-6MG should be holding you well. Just give it time.

You are making changes in your life. Please do not expect to abuse your body the way you have with norco and not experience any withdrawal. Trust me, it is going to happen. Read the thomas recipe.
 
So...things are going really well so far. Come haven't taken Norco at all. They are dosing me at 16mg a day. Each day I can feel that it's lasting longer. They are ok with my taking my benzo as long as it's a prescribed medicine and they work with your doctor to also wean you off that...which is what I eventually want. The benzo's did save me the first few days when I felt like I couldn't make it.

That's so crazy you guys know that they actually suggested 32mg! But, yeah, they said at the levels I was taking, I'd be equivalent to 32mg Subutex or 120mg Methadone. And I was like, hell no!! The lower the better. See, I don't get to bring this stuff home. I have to go to a clinic really early every morning and dose. During the weekdays, they close by 10am and weekends by 8am. I'm actually really nervous because I didn't make it there on time today to dose. The clinic is an hour away and even though I left at 6:30, I got stuck on the highway forever because of a wreck. I pulled in to the clinic at 8:15 but doors were locked. I don't feel any WDs yet...but will I soon since I missed my dose today? Of course I will be like first in line tomorrow to dose, I'm hoping that missing today hasn't messed me up too bad.
 
So, I haven't gone to the clinic to take my Sub in 3 days and I haven't used anything recreational in 3 days. I'm extremely sick. I don't know what to do. I want to be drug free. Going to the clinic makes me feel like I'm trading one addiction for another. What should I do??? I'm lost. I'm sick. I'm on the verge of calling my dealer and just getting a few to hold me over.
 
Go back to the clinic and have them taper you off the subs. Sub withdrawal can be worse then regular opiate withdrawal. Going from 16mg to nothing is gonna be rough. The other option is since you've already made it through three days if you want to keep pushing through can use your benzos and OTC meds to help get past the worst of it. Look up the Thomas method. Gives you a guideline to decrease withdrawal symptoms. Hang in there and don't use. Will make it worse in the long run.
 
I read the Thomas recipie. I may give it go since I do have a benzo script. My biggest issue is that when I don't have opiates, I am so lethargic. Like, it's hard for me to get out of bed. I just don't know what to do. I'm not going to use again, but I can't decide if I need to go back to the clinic or not.
 
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