71 dead found in a truck abandoned in Austria

[Deleted member 210577]

The man makes a point and no one has the balls to actually respond to what he said. Then the other man engages in a bit of moral sophistry, but doesn't actually debate the mans assertion at all. Without the rest of the film context that scene is meaningless. Maybe the old man had a point? I don't know, and I'm not going to watch the rest of the film to find out just to prove a point.

prejudice - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience

You believing it's prejudice doesn't make it so. There is reason in my posts, despite what you believe. And my comment was based on actual experience, hence "I've been around these people my whole life". That's not prejudice, that's direct experience.

I'm not going to get dragged into a stupid game of language and sophistry with you Alasdair. Debate the points being made; actually engage me or anyone else in the discussion at hand. Standing back at just criticizing my comments with moral sophistry is pathetic.

 

[swilow]

I find it interesting that people are concerned about the cultural fate of Europe. SS spoke of his European brothers, and a desire to maintain that culture, and an assumption that Islam will replace it. The worst wars and battles in human history has been between 'European Brothers'. For most of European history, those people have been trying to kill each other horribly. Now we have this claim of solidarity. Forgive me for finding it transparent nonsense. The situation happening in Europe has the ring of poetic justice; from the continent that has arguably dragged the entire world into its territorial disputes for hundreds of years has been forced into the heart of another dispute.

There is European culture, but it isn't more important then innocent people suffering. The only cultures that have historically been displaced have been indigenous cultures underneath colonialists. Probably because of the vast technological superiority in most cases. There's no reason to think that the influx of Syrian migrants will have this result in Europe. There is no evidence. The only reason that I could imagine people having this belief is their own bias and prejudice.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

I find it interesting that people are concerned about the cultural fate of Europe. SS spoke of his European brothers, and a desire to maintain that culture, and an assumption that Islam will replace it. The worst wars and battles in human history has been between 'European Brothers'. For most of European history, those people have been trying to kill each other horribly. Now we have this claim of solidarity. Forgive me for finding it transparent nonsense. The situation happening in Europe has the ring of poetic justice; from the continent that has arguably dragged the entire world into its territorial disputes for hundreds of years has been forced into the heart of another dispute.

Your smugness about 'poetic justice' and your other absolutely ridiculous post about 'those with the correct ideas to do the hard work' are contemptible posts Willow. That other post of yours has been the only post I've actually been genuinely offended by in this entire thread discussion. It appears a common theme in many of the posters here, that behind all the heart warming compassion for the Syrians there is this bitter resentment towards the West or some warped conception of it. Apparently cultural evolution just doesn't matter to any of you, you'd rather level the playing field.. ie bring us all down to the lowest common denominator than accept that having winners and losers is actually a better formula for success (because it plays on natural laws). This is an inherent difference between left and right.. left is all ideology with no connection to reality.. right is connected to reality but currently lacks a cohesive ideology.

The EU nations have their differences. We're getting there slowly. But we have more in common with each other than we do with Islamic nations of the Middle East.. they are completely different and incompatible. Islam and its precepts pose a threat that we all resonate with.. its inherent intolerance is something we evolved out of a long time ago. Why you refuse to acknowledge this.. y

There is European culture, but it isn't more important then innocent people suffering. The only cultures that have historically been displaced have been indigenous cultures underneath colonialists. Probably because of the vast technological superiority in most cases. There's no reason to think that the influx of Syrian migrants will have this result in Europe. There is no evidence. The only reason that I could imagine people having this belief is their own bias and prejudice.

If you truely understood its value you would not deem it so disposable. You say I am biased and prejudiced. I could quite as easily level the same criticism at you and the others in this thread who share your underlying resentment towards Western history.

You say there is no evidence. That is a blind assumption you can not prove. The difference between us is I prefer the cautious approach; I recognize the suffering but I'm not going to let my emotions blind my critical thinking on this issue.

 

[swilow]

Your smugness about 'poetic justice' and your other absolutely ridiculous post about 'those with the correct ideas to do the hard work' are contemptible posts Willow. That other post of yours has been the only post I've actually been genuinely offended by in this entire thread discussion.

Right winger getting offended? Hmm. Should I be more politically correct then? :D (you sound like an SJW there SS )

It appears a common theme in many of the posters here, that behind all the heart warming compassion for the Syrians there is this bitter resentment towards the West or some warped conception of it.

My views are based on compassion towards Syrians, not anything against the west.

The western world has a culture of human rights which has been developed over the last few hundred years. You are seeking to deny this history and take us back to discriminatory and arbitrary lawmaking. It is you that is antagonistic towards the western world, not I.

The EU nations have their differences. We're getting there slowly. But we have more in common with each other than we do with Islamic nations of the Middle East.. they are completely different and incompatible.

The solidarity of EU is a very recent thing. Prior to that, Europeans regularly went to war with each other. The culture of Europe were incompatible with each other; the Russian empire was often at war with the British empire. Now look at what's happened? Europe have banded together to form a Union. All this tells me is that previously "incompatible" cultures might not be so incompatible.

Maybe something similar could happen again in Europe?

Islam and its precepts pose a threat that we all resonate with.. its inherent intolerance is something we evolved out of a long time ago. Why you refuse to acknowledge this..

You seek to criticise Islam for being intolerant yet you are proudly expressing intolerance. That simply makes you a hypocrite. Unless you feel that your form of intolerance is somehow better. I don't buy it.

I agree that the intolerance within Islam is bullshit. But, I am not going to do the same thing in turn because they started it. You are no better when you do that.

I try to be fair and dislike all organised religions equally.

If you truely understood its value you would not deem it so disposable. You say I am biased and prejudiced. I could quite as easily level the same criticism at you and the others in this thread who share your underlying resentment towards Western history.

But, western history has raised up ideas of equality and fairness. You are trying to change that by being discriminatory. You should stop accusing people of doing the things you are doing.

You say there is no evidence. That is a blind assumption you can not prove.

Are you asking me to somehow prove a negative, prove that there is no evidence? How the fuck can anyone do that? The onus is on you to back up your statements I am saying there is no evidence for. Provide some evidence of how negatively impacted you are in 10 years time. Good luck, because I want a proper source with statistics and a time machine because I won't accept isolated incidents from the present as evidence for the state of the future.

I live in a racist country that had a white immigration only policy (White Australia Policy). People thought the sky would fall in when we started taking non-whites (forgetting that non-whites were already here). It didn't. History suggests that we can, in fact, take asylum seekers in, assimilate them and still have decent, equitable lives.

 

[Bagseed]

on a sidenote many faithful muslims I met were very tolerate and when I talked to them about their religion, they expressed great enthusiasm for Islam but also emphasized that they respect my and other people's right not to believe in Islam or believe different. the word "Islam" means peace btw.
there might be a lot of violence in the Quran, I haven't read it, neither have I read the bible, but there is certainly a peaceful side to Islam and it's up to the believers how they act.

I got this impression from people I met here in Austria as well while being in India (especially while ending up in a Quran school in Delhi. these people were very friendly and talkative, offered me food and everything).

I wonder how many of the islam critics here have actually interacted with muslims more than maybe seeing them on the streets...

 

[alasdairm]

...I will never understand.

something on which we can agree.



alasdair

 

[spacejunk]

I'd bookmark your post and come back to it in 20 years time, see if you still feel the same way. I very much doubt you or any of your friends will.

Fine by me; i'm comfortable with my political perspective, and people were saying this sort of anti-refugee stuff in the years following the Vietnam War, when Australia welcomed a lot of people into our community.
Back then the scaremongering was about communism, preserving our 'freedom' and a bunch of similar nonsense about ethnicity thrown in as well. 40-odd years on and it was a load of hooey.
As for my friends; most of them actually mix with the people coming from Syria into Germany (can you say the same?) and find them to be very grateful people to whom they can relate.
As my best friend said to me last week, from Berlin "they're like you and me, and their choice was to stay and fight, flee or die".
I can relate to that as i've known refugees from Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, Vietnam, China and Stalinist Soviet Union (off the top of my head) - and have absolutely no reservations about living in a society with other such people.

No. For these smug do-gooders it is all about them and their egos, not about their hearts. You can't fool me on this one, I've seen and been around these types of people my whole life. I know what they are really like.

Love the term "do gooders".
Heaven forbid anyone "do good".

 

[swilow]

^I feel the same with term like bleeding heart. How can having valuing rights and freedom and equality be a bad thing?

Oh wait, I think I know....

 

[Bagseed]

"all animals are equal, but some are more equal."

 

[spacejunk]

^I feel the same with term like bleeding heart. How can having valuing rights and freedom and equality be a bad thing?

Oh wait, I think I know....

I recently got informed about "SJW" ie social justice warrior.
Touché, comrade.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

the word "Islam" means peace btw.

No, it doesn't. It means "submission". Feel free to interpret that how you will.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

You seek to criticise Islam for being intolerant yet you are proudly expressing intolerance. That simply makes you a hypocrite. Unless you feel that your form of intolerance is somehow better. I don't buy it.

I don't "seek" to criticize Islam. I do criticize Islam, because it is completely justified. In the same way I criticize the Catholic church for its failings with its priests. However, despite what I think about the catholic faith itself I don't criticize the entire thing, because that isn't justified; the catholic faith is not asserting itself, as it once did, as Islam is currently attempting.

I agree that the intolerance within Islam is bullshit. But, I am not going to do the same thing in turn because they started it. You are no better when you do that.

Right.. so you basically recognize there is a problem but refuse to confront it. Keep spinning that moral sophistry though, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

 

[Bagseed]

^ you may be right, but it is still derived from "salam" which means peace. for what it's worth. it's not so important anyway. interesting though that you picked this one little line of my post, probably because you could say something against it. care to comment on the rest of it though?

 

[Deleted member 210577]

^ you may be right, but it is still derived from "salam" which means peace. for what it's worth. it's not so important anyway. interesting though that you picked this one little line of my post, probably because you could say something against it. care to comment on the rest of it though?

That's not correct Bagseed, and I would be asking (if I were you) where you heard this claim.. was it the TV? A friend? The root of Islam is 'submission'. The word only has one root, and the root word translates to submission, not peace. I picked up on it because it is incredibly important.. manipulation of language is how most of the problems start with serious issues. Saying Islam means peace is propaganda, and it should be challenged. Nothing against you, but I had to challenge it.

The rest of your post.. I have kind of answered earlier in the thread. I was good friends with a Muslim chap when I worked in London. Perfectly nice guy, one of the few people I actually enjoyed talking to at that work place. Big Man United fan, loved football, I hate football, and would tease him about it. But this is not the point. Nice people come in all shapes and sizes. However, whilst we got along I will concede I know nothing about his motivations.. and vica-versa. How many people know a person well enough to even make the claim? Sometimes even family members surprise you. So yes, Muslims can be nice people.. that is a given.. humans can be nice, it has nothing to do with ones religion or beliefs. Being 'nice' does not justify turning a blind eye to problems though, and Islam has some serious issues. It just does. That's not prejudice or any other feeble label one may like to give.. Islam has serious structural issues. Christianity had them too, and it still has small pockets of issues within its central core.. but it is fundamentally different to where it was centuries ago. Islam has yet to have its moment.

Simply saying it has a peaceful side is not going to erase its history and how things tend to go south when large enough populations of Islamic followers gather in one place. This isn't because the individuals are somehow inherently flawed or primitive.. the problem is not them as individuals. The problem is the religion they follow. I am a tolerant person, but tolerance does not equate into accepting everything, that's not how it works.

 

[swilow]

I don't "seek" to criticize Islam. I do criticize Islam, because it is completely justified. In the same way I criticize the Catholic church for its failings with its priests. However, despite what I think about the catholic faith itself I don't criticize the entire thing, because that isn't justified; the catholic faith is not asserting itself, as it once did, as Islam is currently attempting.

Fair enough. All critics feel that their perspective is justified, and it is- its like your opinion dude. But you shouldn't allow your misconception to negatively impact innocent people- IMO.

Right.. so you basically recognize there is a problem but refuse to confront it. Keep spinning that moral sophistry though, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

No, I believe you can criticise something without being terrified of, and opposed to, it. All religions can be intolerant; Islam is no different. I don't need to confront something that I entirely accept. I feel perfectly good knowing that I am not afraid of these refugees. They are people. It would seem that some people choose to dehumanise individals to excuse their own prejudice. But it leaves them fearful and unable to act. Hence, I think they should leave it to those who have the will to actually do something.


I think fundamental Islam is a problem. I think white racists are a problem. I think that Euro-supremacists are a problem. I think that extreme Zionism is a problem. Anyone who is claiming to be better then others is a problem; the world simply does not need that sort of shit, regardless of whether it is inspired by religion or race. Humans are equal, in my opinion.

The worst proponenets of religious intolerance are often people who are outside of the religion. If you seek unity, or dislike intolerance, why are you exhibiting the exact same traits? You may think that Islam is extremely dangerous and incompatible with western culture. You may feel that your intolerance is justified. I assure you, the intolerant members of this religion believe the exact same thing. Each party can justify their intolerance. Because that is totally nonsensical, the only reasonable way to to approach this is to do away with intolerance and open your mind.

SS, I hope you don't think that your opinionated posts on Bluelight constitute confronting Islam...

 

[What 23]

What is religion/ideology outside of our minds? Or what is it without?

 

[Helpmehelptheworld]

Lets take it away from the whole islam / fear point that yall keep spitting (yeah i don't like certain types of muslims because i don't like certain types of people - violent ones who steal - in this case they just happen to be of that culture extrordinarily often) (once again this is anecdotal so take it as you like)

How do you propose we take care of these people? You are asking the public sector to do it because the private sector - the ones who profit so to speak - never fucking will. So do yall suggest we have a coup d'etat? Ravage the top 0.1% for the necessary funds? Because there is no way in hell any government currently can sustain this massive influx.

What about jobs? What about education? Do you realize all your ideals stand from a point of view which negate resources as finite? How about places to live? What about the homeless (current count in sweden is 75,000) do you think that adding an influx of foreigners is going to help the economy?

Also! What in the flying fuck has sweden done to deserve this sort of insane baggage? Do explain that one to me.


You all want these nations to give aid without a single valid point except empathy for their situation.

Why don't we bring in, once again, half of africa too? Lets just become a global nation without borders /s


Even if i opened my mind so to speak. Who is going to open their wallet? Why don't you all start? See how well it goes.

It's going to go straight down the shitter. Why? Lack of experience, education, and an understanding how to succeed within the nations they are entering. If you say there is not culture in EUrope why aren't these immigrants just getting jobs left and right? Why aren't they as capable? Oh yeah, forgot. It's because europeans are being intolerant to their inability to as much as work a dishwasher.

 

[paranoid android]

It appears a common theme in many of the posters here, that behind all the heart warming compassion for the Syrians there is this bitter resentment towards the West or some warped conception of it. Apparently cultural evolution just doesn't matter to any of you, you'd rather level the playing field.. ie bring us all down to the lowest common denominator than accept that having winners and losers is actually a better formula for success (because it plays on natural laws). This is an inherent difference between left and right.. left is all ideology with no connection to reality.. right is connected to reality but currently lacks a cohesive ideology.

I wouldn't call anyone on here anti-western but you seem to be implying that progressivism (or your Conservative view of it) is somehow a completely western idea. Some people on here are indeed very reactionary and abit in the dark ages though that is a problem with only a few far right posters who make up for lack of content by being the loudest. Such concepts as equality and human rights proposed by these idealist Liberals that you hate are very much western born concepts. The radical left ideology of Communism was also by and large born atleast initially out of western ideas. So is good ol Toryism for that matter which is a ideology of sorts that you seem to fall closest to.

The EU nations have their differences. We're getting there slowly. But we have more in common with each other than we do with Islamic nations of the Middle East.. they are completely different and incompatible. Islam and its precepts pose a threat that we all resonate with.. its inherent intolerance is something we evolved out of a long time ago.

You talk as if intolerance is a thing of the past within the EU when this refugee crises is showing that it is anything but. For some intolerance closer to your door step turn on the BBC next July 12th where a organization that is a little bit like the KKK of the north has a lovely public holiday while ranting about how much they hate all things Irish or Catholic and how these fuckin immigrants are starting to be worse then the Taigs for god sakes 8)

You also seem to think that Islam is some united force against western civilization or something which is a rather laughable concept when you look at the actual realities of the conflicts going on in places like Syria and Iraq. By and large it has been Wahhabism the most radical branch of Sunni Islam that has been fighting and killing every other Muslim deemed a infidel for not following their fucked up version of Islam. Groups like ISIS may say they are launching some holy war against the west but so far all they have done is kill off fellow Muslims.

Another thing that is getting to me is i am seeing more and more of this National Front type propaganda of these evil Syrian refugees launching some religious war against our great Christian nations. For one these ignorant cunts are of course assuming that everyone that is Syrian must be Muslim which is of course not the case at all. Nor is the UK or America for that matter Christian countries. But let's not confuse these poor befuddled glue sniffers with trial facts such as these as they have invaders to repel 8)

 

[What 23]

They may not all be Christians, but they are culturally. This is one thing Christianity did positive. It may have collectively held back a lot of people, but it put them working on the same platform. It was something to develop from. Our liberal society evolved out of what was.

What I fear with Islam isn't the first wave. It is the continued "creeping" of Islam through immigration and birth. They won't even really need to fire a shot. My people are potentially being phased out. The way I see it, Europeans were having enough children. The economy was what was fucked, and is fucked. Many other places of origin of refugees are also with very high birth-rates. Basically, resources are finite, and some of these people will be like kids in a candy store. Who deserves that land the most? Deserve? Well, I think people owe it to their children to try to make the best possible world for them. I personally don't think being outnumbered by Islamic peoples is even close to that.

So many on the left don't seem to think things through. They use evidence like "my friend the Muslim baker who smoked weed haha what a swell guy", and act like this at all explains group behavior. It would be great if we could all get along, but people have interests. The Muslim interests are not in line with ours, and I am not interested in being outnumbered by them. They seem to take now as what will be. As if they don't have projections of the future, or they ignore the obvious.

Our leaders were fucking idiots. At least now we all know how small the world is now.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

^ Exactly. It's not the extremists that concern me the most, it's this slow creep of Islam that is going largely unchallenged by people in the West. Our tolerance has blinded us. We've grown too soft to admit that actually there may be a problem developing here. Now when someone does try to bring light to this point it immediately descends into accusations of racism or hatred. The issue is not people on the far-right being intolerant, the problem is actually people on the left who are too weak to admit there may be a problem that needs dealing with.

Despite all the media bullshit and PC dribble that has infested our culture, British people on the whole are not stupid.. deep down most people recognize the issue but are simply too afraid to speak about it. This is the real crux of the issue.. it's like the whole Western world is so afraid of admitting that we may have to take proactive measures, which ultimately may involve or lead to violence.. we are so afraid of creating conflict in our own yard. We so desperately want to cling to peace. No one wants to rock the boat. Or to put it more bluntly, none of the baby boomers want to rock the boat.. they want a free pass out of this life without having to deal with the failures of their generation, of which this PC liberal hippie bullshit is high on the list.

The problem could have been acknowledged and minor measures taken years ago. The longer we leave it the more explosive the final confrontation will be. I don't think the British public are going to take much more to be honest.. after the Rotherham scandal in particular. That event itself really hit home with a lot of people just how fucked up the situation has become. And I bet my bottom dollar there are many other scandals just waiting to be revealed.. it was not an isolated incident.

paranoid_android: I recommend you watch the Oxford Union talk with the National Front leader Marine le Pen. Reminds me of Nigel Farage in a lot of respects