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If weed isn't a "real" psychedelic how do you explain arabesque/hindu art?

So how come that these people can conceive art that is so exquisitely psychedelic in nature?
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I think prohibitions against representational artwork have a LOT to do with it. . .

there was none of the psychedelic headspace associated shrooms and acid and such; I was just really fucking baked. There were no deep thoughts, introspection or anything like that
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A lot of people respond to cannabis very differently from you.

ebola
 
actually, most "sadhus" are frauds who want to make money, especially from tourists. ;)

cannabis certainly isn't legal in India, and the growing, more and more westernized middle class of India frowns upon drug use, but Bhang is sold in shops anyway, even to tourists. and in remote regions in the Himalaya I guess growing hemp is very prevalent, haven't been there to be able to confirm this myself though...

Cannabis definately is an important plant in Hinduism and Islam doesn't frown upon it as well (as opposed to alcohol, which is "haram").

This year at a festival, I heard a lecture speculating that "soma" might be a brew similar to ayahuasca, backed up my lots of scientific and historical sources, but the lector himself said, that it is just his theory, he wasn't claiming it as a fact.
 
Bagseed said:
actually, most "sadhus" are frauds who want to make money, especially from tourists. ;)
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I know :) I've been to India 3 times. First time I travelled around for 4 months. Some sadhus are genuine, many are fake, and almost all of them smoke charas all day.

Bagseed said:
cannabis certainly isn't legal in India, and the growing, more and more westernized middle class of India frowns upon drug use, but Bhang is sold in shops anyway, even to tourists. and in remote regions in the Himalaya I guess growing hemp is very prevalent, haven't been there to be able to confirm this myself though...
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Yes, you are absolutely right, I was exagerating to make a point. And India is changing, But:

"Used during observance of certain Hindu rituals. Government-owned shops in holy cities like Varanasi sell cannabis in the form of bhang. Despite the high prevalent usage, this law is Illegal but rarely enforced and treated as a low priority across India. Tourist may often be searched by police officers, but usually in the goal of being bribed and not punished. Further, large tracts of cannabis grow unchecked in the wild in many parts of northern and southern India in many states such as West Bengal, Himachal Pradesh, Tripura, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, and Tamilnadu.[ many states such as West Bengal, Tripura, and the North East have their own laws allowing cannabis, locally known as ganja."

It might not be officially legal in all of India, but in reality, it might as well be.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country

Bagseed said:
This year at a festival, I heard a lecture speculating that "soma" might be a brew similar to ayahuasca, backed up my lots of scientific and historical sources, but the lector himself said, that it is just his theory, he wasn't claiming it as a fact.
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It's unlikely we will ever know what soma was, but as I said, archeological evidence as well as the physical descriptions in the rig veda of the plant itself, and its effects, only point at two serious contenders to the title: cannabis or ephedra.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma

Ismene, sorry, I can't even be bothered to answer your post.
 
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Fagott said:
"Used during observance of certain Hindu rituals.
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And you automatically assume that because this concoction has got a few cannabis leaves in it that means the only reason they use it must be because they're getting baked. Just like wine in christian rituals - they must be using it to get drunk right? Just like you and your buddies do.

Ismene, sorry, I can't even be bothered to answer your post

Thanks for not wasting my time, it was getting real old.
 
Bagseed said:
Cannabis definately is an important plant in Hinduism and Islam doesn't frown upon it as well (as opposed to alcohol, which is "haram").
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Important in the sense that it's a minor adjunct to a religious ceremony tho - not because Hindu meetings are full of people giggling saying "We're gonna get baked soon dude". I think that's where people get confused.
 
Do you remember what I told you about sadhus? Does he look like he'll be building a multi-billion dollar temple anytime soon? Think about it.
 
I have never said anything about "building temples". You must be confusing me with some one else :)

Sadhus traditionally don't own more than they can carry, and no, they don't build temples. Most of them smoke chillums full of charas everyday though. I know because I've been to India several times. Wether the aim is pure spiritual enlightenment or hedonistic fun, or a mix of both, I couldn't tell you. But it probably varies from person to person.
 
Syrian Rue. Huge history dating back in Persia. Called Esfand in older texts. Also called Harmal.
 
RhythmSpring said:
Syrian Rue. Huge history dating back in Persia. Called Esfand in older texts. Also called Harmal.
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People burn it, it is almost never ingested, by Muslims. It was eaten but it was used in Mediterranea and East African cuisine too, and it bares nothing of the kind in these cultures.

I have my doubts that weed caused all of this. Those patterns are also consistent with heavy meditation, sleep paralysis and hypnagogia, as well as dreaming. Remember people were heavily spiritual and religious in these area back then. These patterns were also present in prior Middle Eastern nation (before the Arabisation of the area). India is also known for it's strong spiritual culture and mysticism. And who knows what was in Soma.

Even though weed was present in these cultures the stuff I mentioned previously had far greater impact on these culture, in fact on world cultures and religions.
 
Archetypal imagery embedded in all of our psyches?
My friend, there are many methods of obtaining visionary states of conciousness, serotonigeric psychedelics are but ONE of these methods.

Have you ever tried breathwork or kundalini yoga? The state they produce is very meditative and psychedelic in nature.
 
Fagott said:
I have never said anything about "building temples". You must be confusing me with some one else :)
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But you've been talking bhang for the entire thread - you do realise that bhang is a drink right? I believe it's made with water which isn't even that good a way of getting high from cannabis leaves anyway. It's no good posting a video of someone in India smoking a blunt and then saying "I've shown Ismene this time". Unless you've now moved onto saying Hindus all sit round the temple smoking blunts - and I've only heard of the Snoop Dogg school of Hunduism doing that.
 
cannabis is totally a psychedelic but also it is a few other things
many people find the psychedelic effects of tryptamines or phenethylamines increased tremendously by a few tokes
reaching the same degree of hallucinations or sensory temporal alteration that higher doses of tryps or phens would have provided.

it is not masquerading as a psychedelic when mixed,
and it is not potentiating the other - it blatantly is psychedelic.

a culture with nothing else could produce this art.
add meditation and access to trypts or phens (or even alcohol) and woohoo.

polyopia is the key issue, shpongle like multiples with mathematical dimensional extension.

in my terminology it is about frame stacking, or the time distortion of keeping moments of consciousness live while time continues so that you abide in a living stack of moments of experience that is more than one 3-dimensional reality at a time.

I think the underlying visual circuitry is not to blame, but the overall brain circuitry that enables consciousness, and associative memory, that is the circuitry that can be jacked to switch from projecting moments in series to projecting moments and keeping them live and having the series as well.
 
Jamaican Junkie said:
People burn it, it is almost never ingested, by Muslims. It was eaten but it was used in Mediterranea and East African cuisine too, and it bares nothing of the kind in these cultures.
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Oh?

"The Messenger of God [Mohammed] said: Whoever drinks the ḥarmal for forty mornings every day in a certain measure, his heart shall be illuminated by wisdom, and he shall be cured from seventy-two maladies the least which is leprosy."

Also, there appears to be a rumor on the internet (I can't find primary source atm) that Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo both used Syrian Rue. Who knows.

As a side note- I can't imagine Esfand (Syrian Rue) being used in any sort of cuisine; it tastes horrible!
 
I think psychedelic is the wrong term, because that associates it with serotonergic drugs like mushrooms or mescaline.

Entheogenic would be a more fitting term, I'd say, for the more immersive cannabis experiences (especially oral). Psychedelic or not, it connects you to something greater, something deeper than just feeling good.
 
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