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Heterodox approaches to Christian scripture

Gnostic Bishop

Gnostic Bishop

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
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Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoringHitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Exceptthat God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.


The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend theknee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the kneeto God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall isreversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of thestory when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this mythliterally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and itis as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above ofas above so below must be brought into synch.

If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bondthe knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A Godwho would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.

The claim that your God is good does not hold water ineither the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or thefantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choosehim for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to hiserrors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead ofblaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal Godand stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in ademocracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical Godwhere to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions areout. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God isfoolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though hewere a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but Godis almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let itdie?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a moreJewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who wouldannihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example andlovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promotinga less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

 
It's not for me to question God's big plan and any possible horrors that may have happened while it's being executed. That would be a sin, something wasting time and energy on would make reaching my full potential more difficult. All I can do is be grateful for the blessings I've received, even the ones that did not feel like blessings at the time.
 
The idea that questioning is a sin makes me uncomfortable, I can't help but see that as one of the mechanisms of social control within religion. If god created us to be able to question, why would it be a sin to question? What's the point of such a test? Why would god create people with the desire to question and then punish us when we do so? It doesn't make sense. I think saying "it's part of the plan that we can't understand, just don't question it" is CLASSIC social control dogma. If we can agree that religion has been used for social control in many cases throughout history, why then would it not be true in this case? In my opinion you have to look at religion with a critical eye and realize that HUMANS wrote everything that's written about it... and many such humans had designs to use it to control the masses. That's not to say that everything written is worthless, not at all. Just that you can't take everything written as the "word of god" because it was in fact the words of humans.
 
God gave us free will. We can use his gifts to flourish or to destroy ourselves. Either will move his plan along, just in a different way.
 
I agree the Old Testament and its "God" is atrocious. As did Jesus, and it was some of what he tried to remedy (like ending the temple offerings, etc.). Anyway, many naive/innocent Christians wouldn't get this distinction, but can still be highly spiritual and good people.

For some, the actual dogma doesn't matter so much, and it's more about the personal connection with God/Christ they feel within them. Many can experience that through mainstream Christianity as well, so it's not that worthless, even if people who have studied religion more in depth can find it very flawed/simple.
 
Last edited:
Xorkoth said:
The idea that questioning is a sin makes me uncomfortable, I can't help but see that as one of the mechanisms of social control within religion. If god created us to be able to question, why would it be a sin to question? What's the point of such a test? Why would god create people with the desire to question and then punish us when we do so? It doesn't make sense. I think saying "it's part of the plan that we can't understand, just don't question it" is CLASSIC social control dogma. If we can agree that religion has been used for social control in many cases throughout history, why then would it not be true in this case? In my opinion you have to look at religion with a critical eye and realize that HUMANS wrote everything that's written about it... and many such humans had designs to use it to control the masses. That's not to say that everything written is worthless, not at all. Just that you can't take everything written as the "word of god" because it was in fact the words of humans.
Click to expand...

+ 1

Regards
DL
 
421 said:
God gave us free will. We can use his gifts to flourish or to destroy ourselves. Either will move his plan along, just in a different way.
Click to expand...

Man, it is easy to see how little you have questioned or thought of your theology. You are way behind the times.

----------------------------------
Can you help but do evil? Ido not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why wouldGod punish you?

Christians are always tryingto absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their freewill argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused ourfall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God'sculpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the abilityto choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose"A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Evewould even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed bya serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie inthe nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable fordeliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "freewill" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by naturethen, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some whowould not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for theGod that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tellyou that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree withChristians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’sresponsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that canonly be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has beenforcibly withheld.

Much has been written toexplain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate whatsome see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and areneither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims arecreated. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this iscalled mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court willnot find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of theact.

Evil then is only human tohuman when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all weever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see asgood as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as itcreates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing,doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some ofboth, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains whythere is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature,evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something toblame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanksfor being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, withoutevolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict betweennature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all mustdo what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to thiscompetition.

These links speak to theisticevolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXOvYn1OAL0&list=UUDXjzOeZRqLxhYaaEhWLb_A&index=9

If theistic evolution istrue, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not reallyany original sin.

If the above is notconvincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is apart of it’s nature and instincts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? Ido not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why wouldGod punish you?

Regards
DL

 
421 said:
God gave us free will. We can use his gifts to flourish or to destroy ourselves. Either will move his plan along, just in a different way.
Click to expand...

Doesn't omnipotence and omniscience kinda make it impossible for a plan to happen, let alone for it to have more than one outcome..

Let alone, again, for freewill to be able to exist.
 
rickolasnice said:
Doesn't omnipotence and omniscience kinda make it impossible for a plan to happen, let alone for it to have more than one outcome..

Let alone, again, for freewill to be able to exist.
Click to expand...

No, it just doesn't make it a necessity.

And I didn't mean more than one outcome but more than one way to get to it.
 
.. No.. Omniscience makes it impossible for an omnipotents god's plan to go any other way than A) The omnipotent god intended it and B) the omniscient god saw / knows it.
 
Something being impossible for the omnipotent is an oxymoronic claim.

I understand what you're trying to say though and the way I look at is that God is the ultimate authority. Satan only has power when it serves an outcome God intended. But succumbing to Satan's power will cause the individual to perish, working towards the same outcome with goodness to flourish.
 
So if the person who succumbs to Satan's power and perishes, God intended them to perish?

So God intended Satan to disobey and go against Gods wishes and attempt to foil Gods plan by corrupting man?

So God is not omniscient as God does not know what path we take to reach his end game.. Or God is omniscient and he knows what path we take, destroying the notion we have freewill and choose the path we take ourselves.

Can God give man freewill while being omniscient? Does not compute.
 
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