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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

methadone, buprenorphine and other opioid pharmacotherapies

What if you were tied to anti-depresant? My siblings are all on anti'ds and they all are tied to them as much as someone on bupe.

The only difference with bupe is you have to present for daily dosing until you get your shit together to be trusted with takeways.

That said the clinics, especially the public ones, are absolute cunts when it comes to trust and transfer to chemist dosing/takeways. You basically have to have your employer and bank manager come in for a interview just to prove who you are.
 
What if you were tied to anti-depresant? My siblings are all on anti'ds and they all are tied to them as much as someone on bupe.

The only difference with bupe is you have to present for daily dosing until you get your shit together to be trusted with takeways.

That said the clinics, especially the public ones, are absolute cunts when it comes to trust and transfer to chemist dosing/takeways. You basically have to have your employer and bank manager come in for a interview just to prove who you are.

Even with TA's you still have to go to the chemist twice a week (you'd think they could give you a few extra to cut it down to once, but nope), and it takes a year and a half to earn that many. Although you can take more out at once, but you're stuck at 22/month, which means you have to make it up later.

I'm not sure about the laws in various states, but if it's legal where you live, I think you'd be much better asking a trusted GP/shrink or trying to find a decent one to prescribe bupe for you instead of going to a clinic. Everything I've heard about clinics makes them sound hellish. Then you just have to pray that the pharmacy closest to you is run by decent human beings, because I've heard some equally shitty stories about pharmacies.
 
The Opioid Treatment Programs are meant to give the patient stability to resume employment whilst repairing fractured relationships and finances (among other aims and outcomes).

Instead I'm going through the complete opposite. The people running these programs are actively working to cause my dismal from my job/career, fracture my relationships with my SO and family and as a consequence destroy my finances, family and home. There is no words I can possibly say that can come close to describing the doctors and nurses running these clinics.

They're lazy, incompetent, bigots, apathetic, hateful little people. They have breached every agreement they've made whilst I have been utterly compliant, polite and respectful. I haven't raised my voice, sworn or argued. Its like i killed their cat or something.

The worse thing I have ever done in my life was go on a NSW Opioid treatment program. Before i was literally blacked mailed by the state (to involve DOCS and such) i was getting my habit under control I had inducted onto bupe at home and was doing really well..down to 1mg.....they blackmailed me onto the program (for reason I can't explain), They pushed me onto 8mg despite protesting i didn't need it. They ignored everything I said.

Now I'm starting to lose it. i can't keep juggling and i'm going to get caught and found out. I'm going to lose my job if they keep fucking me like this but i can't leave the program or they'll fuck me and my family.
 
Is there a website or phone number I can use in regards to mistreatment in the methadone program they include a unreasonable ammount of drug tests and lying to my private doctor and my chemist and lowering my methadone from 70mg to 40mg in a single day!!
 
^ Sucks to hear you guys are being mistreated. The only thing I can think of is contacting your states Drug & Alcohol service and reporting the behavior of the clinic staff. They might be just as bad, but it's only a phone call, so you may as well try.
 
You should contact MACS (Methadone Advice & Conciliation Service) on 1800 642 428. They are confidential telephone service for methadone service and treatment complaints, open Monday - Friday; 9:30 - 5:00pm.

Also NUAA has a good article on making a complaint here.

Ash. <3
 
Had a meeting a couple of days ago. fuckers knew they were meant to move me to a chemist. completely lied to my face. said they couldn't because they'd have to speak to their supervising Dr.

They even repeated to me the agreement making it sound like some unimportant minor little thing that was discussed and agreed to over 3 months ago.

If they're so petty, aggressive and dishonest, breaking agreements and not advising patients of their treatment plan, taking major decisions without any discussion or input from the patient then I am undoubtedly sure that if I complain they'll take away what little flexibility i have and won't ever let me get off the program.
 
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TL ; DR Lots of Bupe. Jumped from 24mg to 14mg in one go. Not pretty. Bad Comments EDITED since I remembered my password just today after trying to register a couple of times with no luck
 
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^ Mate you need to seek some help, bluelight isn't here to help you kill yourself. Take yourself down to the nearest hospital and tell them you're feeling this way, they'll take care of you for the immediate time being.


Mods - any way to get some help sent his way?
 
Anyone ever have to deal with a hospital stay/operation while on bupe?

One of my worst nightmares was always getting into a car accident or something and not being able to receive pain relief because of the blocking effect of the bupe. Second worst nightmare is having 'opiate dependant' on my chart and Doctors being conservative because they assume I'm drug seeking when seeking relief.

I've had a complicated appendicitis with abscess and have to go in for an operation to remove it in a couple months. Not in any pain at the moment but not looking forward to it obviously. Hopefully it'll be laparoscopic keyhole but they might have to open me up properly...and even possibly remove some of my bowel.

Need to talk to some good Doctors about it because my surgeon didn't seem to know much about it.

I guess an option could be to try and do a quick withdrawal off bupe before the operation. Or maybe get them to switch me to full agonist beforehand.

Any input would be much appreciated. Pretty nervous about it all, have always taken my health for granted.
 
^ No experience but it scares the shit out of me too and you are absolutely right to be scared.

Not only the fact that if something like a car crash happens and you're unconscious/have surgery which takes several hours and you're unable to let those treating you know that you're on a maintenance program and possibly going through acute withdrawal (although the track marks would be a good indicator for some). The other thing that scares me is the utter contempt both the doctors and nurses will treat you with once once they find out you have been using any medicine to self medicate, have fun or whatever the reason you perhaps choose to use drugs.

It's not only drug users who face this kind of discrimination either, those with naturally high tolerances to certain drugs, including opioid pain-killers also have to put up with many problems in those circumstances.

Unfortunately, with bowel related problems, opioids are always going to be a concern due to their constipating effect.

If you are on a program, theoretically you should be able to be maintained comfortably if you require a lengthy stay in hospital, however theory and practice are often not even close. Have you considered talking to a harm reduction group, I know HRVic, AIVL, CAHMA, NUAA, SAVive and others. They might have experienced this before.
 
Anyone ever have to deal with a hospital stay/operation while on bupe?

I guess an option could be to try and do a quick withdrawal off bupe before the operation. Or maybe get them to switch me to full agonist beforehand.

Any input would be much appreciated. Pretty nervous about it all, have always taken my health for granted.

I've been in hospital whilst on bupe and have had an operation, it didn't warrant a tonne of opiates to manage the pain and so I was treated fairly well. However, I have been in hospital and in chronic pain (dental pain and back pain) and due to having been admitted to the ER for overdoses, I couldn't get as much as a 5mg Endone.

How much bupe are you on? SL? IV?

I would recommend in the days prior to the surgery completely abstaining from bupe, even just the day before, so that you're in mild withdrawal when being admitted. For after the fact pain management definitely talk to a doctor. It sucks how you're treated by people, from all walks of life, so differently once they know you use/abuse/take opiates.

Best of luck with the surgery mate.

Ash. <3
 
Hi I'm currently wanting to go onto subitex I have had large habit maybe more for ten years I am sick and want off it. How long do I wait for 1st dose? Also what would hold me? Thanks guys xx
 
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forgotten_username, I sincerely hope you have not followed through with what you were talking about in this thread. If you read this, please post and let us know that you are alright.
 
Yup, the accident thing freaks me out too. I just cross my fingers and hope that I end up in a hospital with a doctor decent enough to pump full of enough fentanyl to break through the blockade (hah :| ), or at least take pity and knock me out cold.
 
Cheers for the feedback guys. I'll keep you updated on how I go.

Don't think I'll stop my bupe a few days before...would be pretty horrible going into hospital with withdrawals (especially if they didn't give me enough other opiates) When I was in hospital a couple weeks ago with acute appendicitis they were pretty liberal with the oxycodone which ended up helping with the pain. Fingers crossed it all goes OK.

Everyone on bupe/methadone should have a little card in their wallets to advise any medical care if you're incapacitated. They used to give you one when you first signed up for the program years ago, not sure if they still do. I'll be looking for some good literature on treating pain on bupe dependant people, will post it up here if I find anything.

Stop Buprenorphine. As noted above, continuing buprenorphine after surgery can antagonize the effects of other opioids prescribed for postoperative pain. Discontinuing buprenorphine may help in making those opioids more effective. As postoperative pain diminishes over time and opioid requirements decrease, buprenorphine therapy can be restarted.

Continue Buprenorphine. Some experts contend that buprenorphine can be continued, although it may be necessary to treat with higher doses of opioids to compete for mu receptors. There are some controlled studies showing effectiveness of average doses of opioids for breakthrough pain in patients on the buprenorphine patch.1-2 Remember that this provides a much lower dose of buprenorphine than what is more commonly used for opioid dependence in sublingual formulations. However, other studies support the concept that effective pain management can be achieved with higher dose opioids in patients on higher dose buprenorphine.3-4

Rotate to Methadone. If your institution has the necessary specialists, you can also consider rotating the patient to methadone for maintenance during the postoperative period. Since methadone is a full agonist, it removes the problems associated with mu receptor blockade while keeping the patient on treatment for their addiction. However, practitioners need to take into consideration the potential difficulties with transitioning a patient between these two agents and the restrictions on prescribing methadone at discharge.

Determine Buprenorphine Use based on Risk. Lately, pain specialists have been taking a more stratified approach (Figure 1). For more high risk or major surgeries, they recommend stopping buprenorphine to maximize opioid efficacy. For minor surgeries, they recommend continuing buprenorphine, as pain can often be controlled with non-opioid therapies. The result is a protocol based on risk stratification.

Surgeries that are more painful will require higher opioid consumption, even in opioid naïve patients. In these situations, where the risk for complications related to uncontrolled pain outweigh the benefits of maintaining buprenorphine therapy – this approach recommends discontinuing buprenorphine. In other more minor surgeries, where pain is often controlled with minimal to no opioids, it may not be necessary to stop buprenorphine to manage pain effectively.

http://cpnp.org/resource/mhc/2011/09/buprenorphine-and-acute-pain-management

Can't imagine more frequent doses of bupe working very well. I've tried to use bupe for pain relief before and it wasn't very effective (paracetamol was better)


This is a good one - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1892816/pdf/nihms17732.pdf Will print this out and make an appointment with my surgeon.
 
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Hey guys,

Am I safe to take a bit of Oxy while I'm on 60mg of Physeptone (Methadone tablets)? I just want to take a bit for a bad burn I've got on my hand that Panadeine Forte won't touch. I used to take up to about 500-600mg of Oxy a day for about 12-18 months then stopped by going on the methadone program, I was taking it for long term chronic pain and won't be taking it any more than this one 80mg tablet that I'm going to break up into bits anyway until I see a specialist burn surgeon in a days time.

I just don't want to take too much and cause myself any grief with OD'ing ect. I know it's a long shot but I haven't mixed the two drugs before.
 
Hey guys,

Am I safe to take a bit of Oxy while I'm on 60mg of Physeptone (Methadone tablets)? I just want to take a bit for a bad burn I've got on my hand that Panadeine Forte won't touch. I used to take up to about 500-600mg of Oxy a day for about 12-18 months then stopped by going on the methadone program, I was taking it for long term chronic pain and won't be taking it any more than this one 80mg tablet that I'm going to break up into bits anyway until I see a specialist burn surgeon in a days time.

I just don't want to take too much and cause myself any grief with OD'ing ect. I know it's a long shot but I haven't mixed the two drugs before.

Hesitant to take a guess because I really don't know if it's safe.

Have you been on the methadone for a while? Maybe just take a small amount first to see how it'll effect you, and make sure you have someone keep an eye on you if possible.
 
Hey Bubblegummer, last year I had to go into hospital for an operation on my hand. I knew I was going to be given a general anaesthetic but I was unsure whether I wanted to admit being on methadone when being admitted.
Anyway, I started to worry about the methadone somehow reacting with the anaesthetic so I told the anaethatist. They ended up being pretty cool about it and gave me morphine straight after the op and oxy on discharge from the hospital. I had no problem taking the oxy on top of the methadone at all. That was my experience anyway.
 
Hi Bluelight- i work in victoria for the new pharmacotherapy network. we're about to ask service users for their input about the system... i'm interested in all of your input too- the questions are here- let me know what you think of the questions, and feel free to feedback any answers too.


1. Which medication do you take?


Methadone Suboxone Other, please specify ______________________

2. How satisfied are you with the service at your prescribing DOCTOR?
Not satisfiedSomewhat Satisfied Neutral Satisfied Very Satisfied

3. How satisfied are you with the choices of doctor and pharmacy to attend?
Not satisfiedSomewhat Satisfied Neutral Satisfied Very Satisfied

4. Do any of these things make it harder for you to go to the prescribing DOCTOR? Tick all that apply.
Distance Travel costTravel timeWaiting time for appointment Staff attitudes

5. How far do you travel to see your prescribing DOCTOR?

6. How long do you spend travelling to dose each day?

7. Do you have a GP that you see for your other health needs? Yes My prescriber looks after all my health needs

8. How satisfied are you with the service at your dosing PHARMACY?

Not satisfiedSomewhat Satisfied Neutral Satisfied Very Satisfied
9.Do any of these things make it harder for you to go to your dosing PHARMACY
? Tick all that apply.

Distance Travel cost Cost of dosing Waiting Time at Pharmacy Staff attitudes

Is there anything else you would like to add about your experience with the methadone/suboxone program?
 
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