Help me understand!

[xuser]

Hi, I am hoping I can get a bit of insight here. Bit of background: I have been with my partner almost 12 years. He was a heroin addict when we met, I didn't know because while he would use every day, he never looked high, not in front of me anyway. After a couple of years we got serious and he decided (with help from me obviously) to kick the habit. After numerous programs (naltrexone being the winner) and several years he was able to do this. But in recent years has dabbled from time to time. He has almost always been prescribed valium (10mg) and continues to take them daily and he also takes other pills occasionally from mates etc. This is a problem because he can't sleep without them, but he can't drink with them because he just looks ridiculously high and I can't stand to look at him. We now have a 12 month old and I don't want any of that shit in the house.
I am not comfortable with his 'occasional' use of heroin and I am just sick of the pills too. It has been 12 years for crying out loud. I am fairly certain he can quit the pills and the heroin altogether. But to me it just looks like he just wants to get high because he can. I have threatened to leave and take our daughter if he doesn't clean up.

So my questions are: Am I deluded in thinking he can do this? Is this unreasonable? Should I just be happy he isn't a full blown H addict any more and just put up?

Any opinions would be great

 

[HiManImDan]

Hi, I am hoping I can get a bit of insight here. Bit of background: I have been with my partner almost 12 years. He was a heroin addict when we met, I didn't know because while he would use every day, he never looked high, not in front of me anyway. After a couple of years we got serious and he decided (with help from me obviously) to kick the habit. After numerous programs (naltrexone being the winner) and several years he was able to do this. But in recent years has dabbled from time to time. He has almost always been prescribed valium (10mg) and continues to take them daily and he also takes other pills occasionally from mates etc. This is a problem because he can't sleep without them, but he can't drink with them because he just looks ridiculously high and I can't stand to look at him. We now have a 12 month old and I don't want any of that shit in the house.
I am not comfortable with his 'occasional' use of heroin and I am just sick of the pills too. It has been 12 years for crying out loud. I am fairly certain he can quit the pills and the heroin altogether. But to me it just looks like he just wants to get high because he can. I have threatened to leave and take our daughter if he doesn't clean up.

So my questions are: Am I deluded in thinking he can do this? Is this unreasonable? Should I just be happy he isn't a full blown H addict any more and just put up?

Any opinions would be great

Hi
First of all, his come an extremely long way if his quit full time heroin use, I've heard that stuff is one of the most addictive drug.

This is my opinion:
If you want to quit an addiction, don't replace it, completely get rid of the habit. Replacing heroin with other drugs may not be as bad, but the habit is still there. Threatening to leave the guy isn't the best way to go with this since it will make him feel like his having serious relationship problems. When he feels like he has relationship problems, his life's going to feel messed up and he is probably going to want to find a way to escape his emotions, which will probably making him start using again. In my opinion, make him feel like you're there for him and that you want to help him stop putting these random chemicals in his body.
That's just my opinion though...

Does he have any hobbies than doesn't involve drugs or any sort?

 

[oldirtybizza]

Is his use a problem? You haven't outlined why you have a problem with his drug use beyond you just don't want him to.
Obviously having a child is a large responsibility but that doesn't preclude someone from say having a few glasses of wine at the end of the day, being full blown alcoholic is another story.
If you can get past the propaganda and stigma of "drugs" other than alcohol then there shouldn't be any more problem with your partner having a low dose of valium or opiates than there is for a few glasses of wine.
As en ex H user and having an opiate dependency, I would of course say give the dude some credit and allow him his crumb if it's not negatively impacting on his parenting or your relationship. Of course vigilance is required that he doesn't slip back into heavy use patterns.
Just like prohibition doesn't work , prohibiting your partner won't work either. Opiate replacement therapy works far better than quitting in terms of relapsing into abuse

 

[xuser]

QUOTE=HiManImDan;12453076]
Threatening to leave the guy isn't the best way to go with this since it will make him feel like his having serious relationship problems. When he feels like he has relationship problems, his life's going to feel messed up and he is probably going to want to find a way to escape his emotions, which will probably making him start using again.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately me telling him I will leave isn't just a threat. I do think about it a lot. But then i think about all the hard work that has been put into this relationship and it seems a shame to throw it all away. And then he gets depressed and uses. It's like a vicious cycle, I get angry, we fight, he uses, I get more upset and threaten to leave, he uses again

Is his use a problem? You haven't outlined why you have a problem with his drug use beyond you just don't want him to.


As en ex H user and having an opiate dependency, I would of course say give the dude some credit and allow him his crumb if it's not negatively impacting on his parenting or your relationship. Of course vigilance is required that he doesn't slip back into heavy use patterns.

His use is a definitely a problem. How can I leave our child in his care if he's nodding off? You need to have a clear mind to care for a child. The valium is not so much of a problem when taken on it's own. But he mixes it with alcohol or other pills and and it has the same outcome as heroin.
I honestly wouldn't mind if he used H occasionally when he felt the itch, as long as he tells me. I can handle that. I knew what I was getting into from the start. But the constant pills mixed with booze are a no go. He also has suboxone in his drawers. He says he keeps it there just in case. I'm not buying it, I think he takes it to get high.


End of the day, I don't trust him with our child and I am beginning to loathe him because of this. I will also add, we have tried the whole being honest, talking it through, and things go good for a while. Then he lies about it, I find out and the arguments start again. I try to understand addiction (I quit smoking a few years back so have some understanding) I try to see it from his eyes, but in all honesty I feel he just abuses my forgiving nature.

 

[teological]

It depends how messy and at what time during the day he uses. If he uses at night-time, say after work and it does not impede on his family life/social/work, I don't see a problem, seeing as though you knew he was using when you first met; it is the same thing as alcohol and "hav'en a beeer after work mate.....what you doing?" "some H to cool off"..(GASP) "wha...wha..what did you say?" (with horror look in eyes, like he has witnessed a murder, thinks about calling cops on this criminal, get him locked up to save the children).

Look, the only time he will stop is if he really wants to 100%. You can not go into this half-assed or even 90%, it must be 100% certain and wanting to quit and he will. I understand that it seems his use actually is ruining his relationships and he is smashed during the day?? Also mixing alcohol and benzo is very messy.

My advice, give him some sort of leeway. Tell him that you do not mind if he uses some opiates here and there, as long as it is at night and away from your child- plus not stepping on his relationships and occupation. This will not only show him that you support him, even if he does use, but it also gives him some encouragement and motivation, since he can still have his cake and eat it too. From here, you can work towards a more long term goal, once he accepts to keep the drugs from interfering in life.

Obviously this is from a harm reduction standpoint and really drugs are bad and basically a sin, depending on your religion.

 

[puddle.up]

Hectic situation, and a similar one to mine about a year ago.
I had been with my girlfriend for 5 years, no kids or anything, and I am an ex meth addict, I was bunting that shit all day every day, I still maintained a full time job and everything, but 90% of my money was going on shards.

Anyway, I finally got off, because I could see what it was doing to myself, and while my girlfriend is pretty tolerant with drugs but she couldn't stand me sticking needles in my arm.

So I got clean, but I still, even to his day, like to indulge occasionally. I only smoke meth now because I know going back to the needle would be a disaster, and I usually keep my use to once or twice a month, unless there's something on, in which case it might be 3 or 4 times a month, but that's rarely the case.

The incredible thing is, my occasional, non-IV use of meth still bothers my girlfriend! Enough for her to have frequent dummy spits and carry on about leaving me because she can't handle it.
The worst part is this leaves me thinking (Jesus, I still get spoken to and treated like a junkie, so I might as well go back to being one!".

It's so aggravating that she doesn't understand how hard it was to kick the addiction, and that occasional use is just my way of treating myself for working my arse off, like most blokes do with a few (or a few too many) beers.

What I'm getting at is be gentle and try not to nag, it will probly just set him off. But given you guys have a child I think you're well within your rights to expect him to be clean so he can be a fully attentive father. But I think you need to talk to him, and be gentle and civil. Maybe set aside one day a month or one day a fortnight where you look after your child and he can get high and enjoy himself, and in return, you get one day a month or whatever where he is on dad duty and you have the day to yourself to do whatever. But the rest of the time he has to stay clean and sober so he can help look after your child.

Also be reasonable, he needs to lay off the H, but if you make him kick the val at the same time he'll be well fucked, and realistically, a long term and high dose user of Valium will have a gigantic tolerance, he won't be getting overly high from the benzos on their own.

Goodluck with it all sorry for the essay haha

 

[spacejunk]

Opiates are insidious and complicated...I think (hope) plenty of advice has been offered there for you to think about.

Regarding the benzos, I just thought it is worth mentioning how difficult and dangerous they are to withdraw from (if you don't already know this - I don't mean to sound patronising; but suddenly stopping taking benzos can cause seizures and even death - slow gradual tapers are necessary).
There is plenty of discussion of this in the australian benzodiazepine thread and probably the quitting/tapering thread if you want some further reading.

All the best...I hope for the sake of your family you guys can come to an agreement that is best for all of you. Addiction is a very tough thing to overcome, and can create so many complexities in relationships; I sincerely hope you can work things out together.

 

[xuser]

Thank you everyone. It's hard when I can't seek advice from anyone around me because they don't understand addiction. I actually lie to most of them because if they knew the situation they would probably disown me thinking I am a total fool. It's also hard to decipher weather I am being irrational because I don't use, never have.

truelogical - I actually talked with him last night about how I would prefer a binge every now and then than constant pills mixed with booze.

puddle.up - Your scenario explains what I *think* he is going through. But I worry if he has to many 'treats' he will have a massive relapse and I will be forced to leave. I can't subject our child to that. How do you feel about occasional use triggering a relapse?

spacejunk - Thanks, i will check out those threads. He has gone months at a time without the valium, so i know he can do it. Maybe that's why my tolerance to accepting the pills is low. And thank you, I hope we can come to an agreement too.

I really hope we can fix this.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Forget about understanding addiction and ask yourself if you truly understand addicts? You say he uses from time to time, and has valium every day but are you absolutely sure that he isn't doing it more?

 

[xuser]

Good question.
I suspect he is doing more pills than he says. I doubt it's limited to Valium. We constantly argue about this. There is little trust left. There's something different about him when he uses (H). I don't see him till after the fact, usually much after. But for some reason I know, I can't put my finger on what exactly is different about him. But when we have had the 'everything laid out on the table' chats I have found to be correct almost every time I have suspected. Of course there is probably times where i didn't suspect too.
I think he just likes to be high. He looks uncomfortable trying to live straight, despite his protests that he wants to lead a sober life.I have no doubt he does, but weather or not he can do it, I'm unsure...

 

[puddle.up]

puddle.up - Your scenario explains what I *think* he is going through. But I worry if he has to many 'treats' he will have a massive relapse and I will be forced to leave. I can't subject our child to that. How do you feel about occasional use triggering a relapse?

That's definitely a major concern, it's extremely easy to slip back into addiction. I think that comes down to each individual person though. In terms of meth, I know what I'm like with it, and I know how quickly it could become an everyday occurrence again if I wasn't careful, so I always space out my use, and if I ever find myself thinking about meth when I'm not using it I know I need a longer break, so I lay off it for a while. I know myself and I know I've got a fairly addictive personality, couple that with my previous addiction to meth I'm super careful about when and how often I use, as well as how much I use in a given session. But you would know your partner quite well, if you think he's the kind of person who could relapse then you're definitely right; giving him the freedom to get high too often will be terrible in the long run. Unfortunately though, it's likely that even if you ask him about this issue, he'll give you the typical addict denial spill about how he's fine and he can manage it

 

[spacejunk]

Addiction is a fucking powerful thing.
But so is love.
I don't think you can easily rationalise either of them - because neither of them are rational.

Stigma is a bloody powerful thing too. I personally think it's best to try to cut that out of the equation as much as you can, and focus on the other two.
My 2 cents.

 

[infectedmushroom]

Is he actually neglectful to your child? Observe him with your child, and decide whether his use is affecting his parenting. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it does, however if he is only genuinely dabbling, try help suggest times for him to use which don't interrupt with his responsibilities as a father. I think the biggest concern here is not him, or even you, with all due respect, but your young one. I'm only twenty-two and childless, but that's my opinion.

 

[xuser]

Yes he is neglectful, but not in obvious ways. You really can't afford to be half assed when it comes to raising children. Sometimes he will sleep in till noon and lay around all day. I worry about him dropping pills etc in the house and having her pick them up. He says they are safe in the bottle in his drawer, but she is almost walking now. It's just a lot of small things I guess. If I discuss this with my select close friends the advice is clear - leave him. Like it's so damn easy. Obviously this is not the way i want to go, which is why I am trying to figure out if I am asking too much from him or if he is just taking me for a ride.
We had a talk the other night (one of many) This is what I asked from him:
Basically no being wasted. If I can tell, you've had too much/many. What you do in your own time away from me is your business BUT there is no pissing off for an entire weekend and I want to know when and if you are planning on not coming home (he rarely doesn't come home these days anyway) If you are in this house, you are straight or you can leave. (Valium won't be a problem because he's fine on them until he drinks)

So what do you think? Sounds harsh, but remember we have a child and I have dealt with this for many years. He did agree to this also.

 

[kytnism]

the best perspective i can offer is that addiction MUST be viewed as a "disease" and not an "option". if your partner had diabetes (hypothetically) and when his blood sugar levels dropped; the negative consequences of mood, behavior and physical ability would be either something you could accept and adapt to, or choose to leave the relationship. treatment is necessary for addiction, similar to what it is with disease; it cant be done without medical assistance and ongoing treatment. while logically as a non drug user, it makes perfect sense to present to your partner the positives in his life that should be "enough" (your love, your child, your lifestyle etc) to make him want to stop (and he possibly wants that also); it needs to be understood that he is plagued by addiction and its triggers and like a disease, is engrained in him and overrules everything without his consent; and sadly will never be "enough" to cure/free him of his addiction.

it is painful loving an addict, and there are never any black or white answers/solutions because in accepting his addiction, co-dependancy can follow and isnt healthy for either partner in the relationship; and in non-acceptance you are both going to be miserable as he is going to continue using, distancing himself from you and your child and arguing when you are together. you can lay down many prerequisites for what you feel is acceptable to continue the relationship and be disappointed and argue/remove him from your home everytime he slips up (because as an addict, he will) but this method will not work long term nor heal/free him of his addiction; nor will it lay the foundation for a healthy and trusting relationship. seeing a psychologist, joining a group or seeing a family drug counsellor with experience in addiction is going to be your best bet in making solid long term plans for yourself, your family and your partner. you need a network of support for yourself and your daughter that you trust, and can turn to to better understand the disease; and what you are and are not willing to accept, and how to properly address things that you CAN change. the greatest mistake that all of us (myself included) make is trying to communicate and rationalize with the addict, even barter with them in hopes that things will change. using these methods are the worst possible things you can do and sadly never work.

good luck xuser. dont lose hope; and please continue putting the best interests of yourself and your daughter first.

...kytnism...

 

[footscrazy]

Great post kytnism, especially this:

you can lay down many prerequisites for what you feel is acceptable to continue the relationship and be disappointed and argue/remove him from your home everytime he slips up (because as an addict, he will) but this method will not work long term nor heal/free him of his addiction; nor will it lay the foundation for a healthy and trusting relationship.

You've said everything I wanted to say so well, I don't have much to add. Addiction is so hard. I think it would be easy to think that each time he chooses to use, that he has decided that getting high is more important than you and your child. But addiction isn't that simple, or that black and white. He could love you and his daughter with all his heart and want more than anything to be free of it, but still face an unbearable struggle every day when it comes to using or not.

He also has suboxone in his drawers. He says he keeps it there just in case. I'm not buying it, I think he takes it to get high.

It's unlikely he's getting high off suboxone. Suboxone doesn't get an experienced user high at all; unless he has taken a very long break, he's not getting high off sub.

There's many stories of addiction on BL and I think it might help you to spend some time here, read some threads and perhaps come to understand drug use and abuse better. Any further knowledge you can approach this situation with is only going to be helpful, and the more you know, the better place you will be in to help him, or to decide whether or not he is trying to deceive you.

 

[xuser]

kytnism, such great advice, thank you.
Footscrazy, I'm heading over there to read further now. I'd love to read other stories.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I can only hope things will improve with time. Wish me luck!

 

[Halif]

Unfortunately me telling him I will leave isn't just a threat. I do think about it a lot. But then i think about all the hard work that has been put into this relationship and it seems a shame to throw it all away.

remember we have a child and I have dealt with this for many years

I can't subject our child to that.

Subject him/her to what, exactly? You describe your relationship as a burden, like a project into which you've poured hard work in a futile effort. Like a thing which has wasted your time. Excuse me for being blunt, and obviously I don't know the whole picture, but you sound bitter and resentful but you have chosen to be a partner to this man for twelve years and then bring a child into the equation.

Bitter partnerships are toxic for children. It is almost never just one parent who is at fault. As harsh as this may sound, it seems like you should have made your decision (to leave) before bringing a child into the equation.

It saddens me to hear of things like this and I've seen too many loveless families with children who grow up wondering why things are as they are.

I think he just likes to be high. He looks uncomfortable trying to live straight, despite his protests that he wants to lead a sober life.

It sounds to me like he has issues (depression/anxiety). A lot of people with mental health issues want to live a sober life but find sober living too painful. These people are often extremely sensitive and caring. Does he love his child? Does he treat you and the child well?

Surely you would know about his good characteristics after being with him for so long. Is it possible that you are creating a drama by trying to force him into something when in fact he might well be a wonderful yet damaged individual? Would cutting him off be better for the child, or for you?

 

[legalizeall]

I just skimmed this thread cause im heading to work soon so i wont throw in my two cents but i would love to read this later. This could be for everyone, i just saw a couple things you mentioned that looked like some seeds of resentment. Just be so careful with those and tackle whatever issue you feel you are having as soon as you can. Those seeds become giant trees and destroy relationships and it could have been totally avoided had it been brought out in the open. Resentments, even the smallest ones are such killers.

 

[poledriver]

I try to understand addiction (I quit smoking a few years back so have some understanding) I try to see it from his eyes, but in all honesty I feel he just abuses my forgiving nature.

Hi, xuser, does your nic indicate you used to be a user as well?