Need serious help with pct

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kevinsolid

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May 12, 2014
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I started dong test e a 3 years ago. I ran it for a year and a half (under poor advice) and to make a long story short was forced to quit cold turkey, no pct. A year and a half has gone by and I have never been able to recover. a week ago, I stated a pct of clomid 100/100/50/50/25 nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20. i'm hoping this will get me back up and running. I have two questions. First, does this seem like a good pct to get everything functioning okay again? and, it was suggested to me to add 2 pumps of formeron to the pct, do you agree? Please help, a year and a half is a long time to be shut down. Thanks in advance.
 
HCG would likely be strongly advised, though I'll wait until a more knowledgeable member chimes in to agree/disagree on that :)
 
Is it too late to start hcg since I've already started the clomid/nolva? Also, I've had nothing but trouble trying to locate any. I was given a website, but I don't trust it.
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I keep posting on multiple forums and I'm getting little to no response. It seems this forum is consistently more helpful. Thank you in advance.
 
kevinsolid said:
Is it too late to start hcg since I've already started the clomid/nolva? Also, I've had nothing but trouble trying to locate any. I was given a website, but I don't trust it.
Click to expand...

A first question: How do you know you are still shut-down (have you had this confirmed by blood tests)..?

hCG is a luteinizing hormone (LH) mimicking agent, it doesn't stimulate production of LH (which is what you want)... It artificially stimulates spermatogenesis (sperm production) whilst you are taking it.... Its ideal for childless couples wanting to conceive when combined with hMG... When you come off things can revert back to normal...
hCG will further suppress GnRH, which releases LH (which is what you don't want)...!!! LH is responsible for testosterone production, you want your hypothalamus to increase production naturally, through your bodys own positive/negative feedback mechanisms.... NOT via hCG..!!

Using Nolvadex and Clomid to stimulate negative feedback is the preferred method....

Clomid 100/100/50/50/25 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20............ A little on the high side to begin with but as you've started see it through, you might need to stay on a lower dose a little longer, (clomid 25mg Nolva 10mg) maybe 6-8 weeks in total, dependent on how badly you are shut down..

It might be best to monitor blood:Testosterone, LH, FSH levels, so you have an idea what is happening towards the end of PCT, and post-PCT to see if LH, FSH return to normal and stay there................
 
Thank you very much for the detailed assistance and instructions!

To answer your question, I did get blood work:

Testoster 348 - 1197 ng/dL 498
Test, Free 8.7 - 25.1 pg/mL. 14.4
Sex Hormone Binding 16.5 - 55.9 nmol/L 29.9
LH 1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL 7.2
FSH 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL 3.6

Component Standard Range Your Value
WBC 3.4 - 10.8 x10E3/uL 5.7
RBC 4.14 - 5.80 x10E6/uL 5.47
Hemoglobin 12.6 - 17.7 g/dL 17.6
Hematocrit 37.5 - 51.0 % 50.7
MCV 79 - 97 fL 93
MCH 26.6 - 33.0 pg 32.2
MCHC 31.5 - 35.7 g/dL 34.7
RDW 12.3 - 15.4 % 13.3
Platelets 155 - 379 x10E3/uL 172
Neutrophils Relative 40 - 74 % 55
Lymphocytes Relative 14 - 46 % 29
Monocytes Relative 4 - 12 % 13
Eosinophils Relative 0 - 5 % 3
Basophils Relative 0 - 3 % 0
Neutrophils Absolute 1.4 - 7.0 x10E3/uL 3.2
Absolute Lymphocytes 0.7 - 3.1 x10E3/uL 1.6
Monocytes Absolute 0.1 - 0.9 x10E3/uL 0.7
Eosinophils Absolute 0.0 - 0.4 x10E3/uL 0.2
Basophils Absolute 0.0 - 0.2 x10E3/uL 0.0
Immature Granulocytes 0 - 2 % 0
Immature Granulocytes Absolute 0.0 - 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0

The above bloodworm was a year and a half after last pin and one month before pct.

I think I am down because I have been unable to get it up and keep it up for a year and a half.

Thanks again for your help. I'm kind of desperate...

Also, I know it is not suggested to do an ai during pct, but I keep reading article after article of people taking formeron with clomid/nolva with great success. Do you agree/recommend?
 
kevinsolid said:
Thank you very much for the detailed assistance and instructions!

To answer your question, I did get blood work:

Testoster 348 - 1197 ng/dL 498
Test, Free 8.7 - 25.1 pg/mL. 14.4
Sex Hormone Binding 16.5 - 55.9 nmol/L 29.9
LH 1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL 7.2
FSH 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL 3.6


The above bloodworm was a year and a half after last pin and one month before pct.

I think I am down because I have been unable to get it up and keep it up for a year and a half.

Thanks again for your help. I'm kind of desperate...

Also, I know it is not suggested to do an ai during pct, but I keep reading article after article of people taking formeron with clomid/nolva with great success. Do you agree/recommend?
Click to expand...

I have highlighted in bold your blood test results for Testosterone, Free test, LH, FSH...

You are showing NORMAL....!!!!!

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR RESULTS, ALL YOUR RESULTS ARE WITHIN RANGE....!!!!!

You are crashing estrogen with PCT for no reason..!!!!!!!
 
Genetic Freak said:
I have highlighted in bold your blood test results for Testosterone, Free test, LH, FSH...

You are showing NORMAL....!!!!!

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR RESULTS, ALL YOUR RESULTS ARE WITHIN RANGE....!!!!!

You are crashing estrogen with PCT for no reason..!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Try a vasodilator like viagra....!!!!
 
Gotcha. Thanks. Sorry for the novice questions. Out of curiosity, if everything is normal, why am I unable to perform anymore? It was a non issue before I started doing test. I just want to get back to normal. Not being able to get up is not normal...

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. It's greatly appreciated.
 
kevinsolid said:
Gotcha. Thanks. Sorry for the novice questions. Out of curiosity, if everything is normal, why am I unable to perform anymore? It was a non issue before I started doing test. I just want to get back to normal. Not being able to get up is not normal...

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. It's greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

It could one of be several things..... What's your Estrogen (E2) levels like..? Could be too high/too low E2....
 
Genetic Freak said:
It could one of be several things..... What's your Estrogen (E2) levels like..? Could be too high/too low E2....
Click to expand...
I'm honestly not sure. I'll look into it. If I'm not mistaken, I can order a female panel via online to find these values cheap? If so, is there a site you recommend? If not I can probably talk my doc into it.
 
Privatemdlabs is an online lab. There's discount codes you can use as well. .
 
kevinsolid said:
My nipple started bleeding today. Should I run an ai?
Click to expand...

NO....!!!! You should go and see a doctor....

Have you come off all of that unnecessary PCT shite you have been on..? You've probably crashed you Androgen:Estrogen ratio, by knocking out any estrogenic response by using high doses of Nolva + Clomid, apparently, going by your blood results when you didn't need to....

Why on earth would you consider using an AI..?
 
Last edited:
Genetic Freak said:
NO....!!!! You should go and see a doctor....

Have you come off all of that unnecessary PCT shite you have been on..? You've probably crashed you Androgen:Estrogen ratio, by knocking out any estrogenic response by using high doses of Nolva + Clomid, apparently, going by your blood results when you didn't need to....

Why on earth would you consider using an AI..?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. I just want off this roller coaster. I'm getting blood work tomorrow via my doc. I just assumed it was from high estrogen....
 
Genetic Freak said:
NO....!!!! You should go and see a doctor....

Have you come off all of that unnecessary PCT shite you have been on..? You've probably crashed you Androgen:Estrogen ratio, by knocking out any estrogenic response by using high doses of Nolva + Clomid, apparently, going by your blood results when you didn't need to....

Why on earth would you consider using an AI..?
Click to expand...

... and to answer your question, no I haven't. The bleeding just started a few hours ago. it's only one nipple.
 
kevinsolid said:
I have no idea. I just want off this roller coaster. I'm getting blood work tomorrow via my doc. I just assumed it was from high estrogen....
Click to expand...

Nolvadex binds ER-alpha (estrogen receptor) preventing an estrogenic response in some tissue... Clomid inhibits estrogen receptors in hypothalamus (and other locations), inhibiting negative feedback of estrogen on gonadotropin release, leading to up-regulation of the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis.... (more testosterone)

By blocking ER (via nolva/clomid) there is a possibility of temporary high levels of natural blood/estrogen unable to bind receptors, this may result in some side effects until natural estrogen lowers to normal levels.... This is just a temporary result of nolva/clomid and nothing to worry about, since you should now be off both compounds due to the fact there was nothing wrong with you in the first place..!!!

Let us know how you go on with your results, & keep us posted as to what your doctor has to say....
 
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