Terence McKenna - Didn't use mushrooms from '88 until he died

[freedstar]

If 5g+ mushroom trips taught me anything it's that psychedelics are definitely not for everybody. There's nothing worse than realizing that your existence is that of a flawed human being machine. Luckily I found that even with my flaws I will still get by in life. For others it may not be that easy. I hate to say it but some people would be better off not knowing their true inner self. It could totally screw with your mind.

I'm not shocked to hear Terrence stopped using. After so much preaching and so many theories it seems inevitable that a trip would come where the mushrooms said "oh yeah? So you think you got it all figured out? Look at all your bullshit" Which probably lead to a ton of introspection about his life and his actions.

 

[Ismene]

I'm a little bit surprised that Terrence wasn't tripping on mushrooms at all during the nineties, yet still prescribing that people take 5+ grams in silent darkness. That may be good advice for some people, but he shouldn't have left out the fact that he stopped doing this because of a hellishly introspective trip.

I still think he did more good than than bad tho - he was pretty much the sole voice saying psychedelics have the potential to be good. Every other voice from the police to the government to everyone in the medical profession proclaimed them worthless and dangerous.

Would it really have been better if Terence said they were dangerous and worthless too?

 

[MyExcuse]

It'd be better if the police and gubment got brain cancer and died.

nah just kidding, wut? Terence McKenna is why we still have people expecting garden gnomes on DMT trips, fuck that dude. His brother is legit but T. McKenna was just a mad hatter along for the ride. Denial is futile, nothing he did was of worth.

And to note: Any verbal or written comments from ANYONE in the scientific community (which, sadly, both Terrence and Leary were part of) espousing the "utility" of psychedelic compounds for the purposes of non-descript healing while maintaining a wholly hipster/hippie/unsociable appearance and attitude hinders and HAS hindered very real scientific studies, research and awareness of these valuable tools.

Anyone who thinks that Terrence or Leary or any of those other crackpot, cult-leaders did anything good for the community are largely ill-informed. Leary alone set us back maybe 75-100 years. Terrence was no better.

Read some of John C. Lilly's work, at least he kept that shit pretty much to himself. It's some great information, far more valid (purely based on the guy's credentials) but still crazy as fuck.

 

[Ismene]

^

I dunno - anything positive about psychedelics has to be worthwhile. Who have we got ranged against us? The entire mainstream media, the police, government, medical profession, Buddhists, Hinduists, Christians.

We need anyone in our corner we can get.

 

[sockpuppet]

Wow - Myexcuse just totally turned McKenna AND Leary back into heroes for me.....lol

Half of my love of psychedelics is rooted in love for my associated 'hippie'/'unsocial'/unkempt counter culture friends and family and 90% of the pro-psych "scientists" and MAPS folks are squares I'd never dose with. I'd dose with Terrence or Tim in a heartbeat....

My favorite bit of Terence's schtick was the psilocybin orgies of prehistory. Anyone promoting that is alright with me and anyone fighting for psychedelics only on prescription by shrinks is not....

 

[Quantum Perception]

I think people are projecting their own life's failures on figures like Leary and Mckenna. They never claimed absolute truth and always affirmed they where like cheerleaders or speculators of their concepts, not complete authorities on them.

 

[Ismene]

^^

Good point. Without Leary and Mckenna who would we have talking about drugs? President Nixon and Chief Police Officer Gates.

 

[steve022]

That's according to his brother Dennis and other close friends who've known all this time. Terence suffered a devestating trip in 1988 and never really recovered by the sounds of it; the details are not really known except by his partner at the time, but basically the mushroom that had been his teacher turned on him, forcing Terence to confront his self and this plunged Terence into panic. He used DMT and Ayahuasca only on occassion after that too. This is significant because from 1988 until his death he continued to lecture and put on his Terence persona of '5 dried grams in silent darkness' whilst actually internally struggling with the experience he'd had.

Probably true. I don't think he was crazy though. A little bit burned out, probably yes but he was insightful about things and pretty on target even as he got older. Leary on the other hand did truly go nuts. His later books look like the work of a raving lunatic.

 

[Ismene]

I don't think Leary went nuts. The government and cops put him under such tremendous pressure that it had to affect him. His later books are more about computers than drugs.

 

[spacejunk]

I'm pretty sure the Neal Cassady quote mentioned earlier (say 2 years ago) is in reference to aMT, not psilocybe mushrooms.

 

[plmar]

There's nothing worse than realizing that your existence is that of a flawed human being machine.

Is it bad that I realised this without the use of psychedelics? It's quite depressing.

 

[spacejunk]

^Why would that be "bad"?

 

[bees_knees]

McKenna had some stupid stuff to say and some really poignant stuff to say. I mostly pay attention to what he says about culture, the individual, what life is / could be... I don't pay attention much to the idea of an approaching singularity or secrets in the I-Ching.

Just take on board some of his more reasonable but interesting stuff, like for example, the world is not necessarily what it appears to be. This is our assumption as a modern culture. It could be some kind of puzzle, riddle, conundrum, with levels and "locks and keys." Culture is not your friend, it's very obvious to someone who is intelligent that culture dehumanises, leads astray, preaches false happiness - it's a con game. Also, we are led by the least among us whilst having quite enough technology, power, money to create a human paradise. Life could be a prelude to something far, far beyond our wildest imagination.

I agree / understand all of this.

I'm very thankful someone like McKenna came along. I am not part of the psychedelic culture so I don't have that bias of 'oh look another overcelebrated hero everyone talks about' that makes me want to put him out of the spotlight.

 

[spacejunk]

I think McKenna had some incredible revelations.
A bunch of new age "malarkey" (to swipe one of his words) too - but that is par for the course, especially for cultural "pioneers", no?

Personally I think taking anyone's word 100% seriously is a mistake.
Humans all have flaws. Some of them also do/think/say/create fascinating things.

PS Hendrix didnt die from heroin - cause of death "inconclusive". Toxicology report showed no heroin in his system.

 

[Ismene]

I'm pretty sure the Neal Cassady quote mentioned earlier (say 2 years ago) is in reference to aMT, not psilocybe mushrooms.

Is that the one where he says things like it's all the good points and none of the bad points of tripping? The ultimate high? That's in Learys "Flashbacks" book - it was mushrooms.

 

[spacejunk]

Is that the one where he says things like it's all the good points and none of the bad points of tripping? The ultimate high? That's in Learys "Flashbacks" book - it was mushrooms.

It seems to depend who you ask!
That Cassidy was a bit hard to pin down, so to speak.

This from erowid (http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=3064);

NSFW:

Q: Do you know what the substance was the Ken Kesey referred to as "the Rolls Royce of Psychedelics" that had a 16-hr. run-up to peak?
A: There are some conflicting sources on this, but some sources say that Kesey or Neal Cassady referred to Alpha-methyl tryptamine (AMT or IT-290) as "the Rolls Royce of Psychedelics". Although one visitor wrote in saying that the quote was from Kesey's "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test", it does not appear to be in that book.



We do know that Kesey was given AMT as part of a government research program he volunteered for at the Veterans Administration Hospital in Menlo Park, CA. In addition to AMT, he was also given LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline. All of these substances would have been available to Neil Cassady as well. Around the time when Kesey and the Merry Pranksters drove across country, AMT went missing from a safe at the Menlo Park research center and there are rumors that AMT was available 'on the bus'.



In Michael Valentine Smith's book Psychedelic Chemistry (1981), Kesey is cited as describing AMT (IT-290) as the Rolls Royce drug: "Ken Kesey has reputedly said that alpha-methyltryptamine, in oral doses of ca. 30 mg, peaks in about 12 hours, produces a trip similar to psilocybin, but nicer, and is the 'Rolls Royce of psychedelics,' but others find it unpleasant."



Yet, in at least one published account, the "Rolls Royce" comment appears to be have been made by Neal Cassady in reference to Psilocybin, quoted in Timothy Leary's book Flashbacks. In the 1983 paperback version of "Flashbacks", chapter 7 (pages 51-55) is titled Secrets of the Beatniks. It describes Leary's turning on Neal Cassady in New York in December 1960 (this would be before either had experienced LSD-25). While Neal and his two female friends are coming down:

Neal leaped to his feet and began pacing the room. His face was flushed, radiating beneficence.


"This stuff is incredible! Are you sure it's legal?"


I nodded.


Salinas opened her sloe-eyes and smiled enigmatically. "It does seem too heavenly to be true. Admit it man, its addictive."


I shook my head.


"You wanted a report on this experience?" asked Neal.


I nodded.


"Well, I'll give you one expert's opinion. This combines the good sides of every other drug with none of the bad. This is the ultimate luxury, the flawless wisdom-pleasure hit. More mellow and cozy than heroin, but you don't nod out. I feel more alive and wired and energetic than with speed, but not jangly. Its got the blast of cocaine, but it lasted ten times longer."


"It must cost a fortune," said Salinas.


"It's spacey like the best hashish," continued Cassady, "but also light and bouncy."
"I've never been so horny in my life," said Patty-Belle.


"It's philosophical," added Cassady. "I could write a book about the cosmic thoughts I had. This is the Rolls Royce of dope. The ultimate high."


Waves of affection rippled around the room.

In the documentary released about Kesey and the Pranksters (Magic Trip, i believe it was called) a couple of years ago, Kesey definitely attributed Cassady's glowing endorsement to "IT-290" (aka aMT; I remember because I had to look it up!)

I just glanced at my copy of Ted Morgan's biography of William Burroughs Literary Outlaw - where i first read this expression - and it quotes Neal as referring to psilocybin (Sandoz pills, no less; indeed supplied by Leary) as "the Rolls-Royce of dope" (p.367, for reference).

Either ol' Cassady has been misquoted multiple times over the years, memories have faded, tales have changed with time...or perhaps this was one of his favourite expressions?

If we are to take the Erowid Q&A at face value, the 12 (or 16 hour) peak/duration doesn't sound like psilocybin/mushrooms to me.

If you've ever seen footage of the cat talking...he did blather a lot.
The first section of this clip illustrates that quite well:

 

[Ismene]

Interesting research spacej! I tend to think it was mushrooms Cassady was talking about because AMT just isn't that good - whenever I've tried it I thought it was crap. Lots of nausea too which doesn't sound like "none of the bad of any other drug". Maybe the quote has just got confused on the internet.

I remember in a biog of Cassady it says he was never that keen on taking LSD - even when he was driving the Kool-aid bus - so that makes me think he wouldn't have been that keen on 16 hours worth of AMT either.

 

[spacejunk]

He loved his amphetamine though...

 

[atara]

Just take on board some of his more reasonable but interesting stuff, like for example, the world is not necessarily what it appears to be. This is our assumption as a modern culture. It could be some kind of puzzle, riddle, conundrum, with levels and "locks and keys." Culture is not your friend, it's very obvious to someone who is intelligent that culture dehumanises, leads astray, preaches false happiness - it's a con game. Also, we are led by the least among us whilst having quite enough technology, power, money to create a human paradise. Life could be a prelude to something far, far beyond our wildest imagination.

I agree / understand all of this.

I'm very thankful someone like McKenna came along. I am not part of the psychedelic culture so I don't have that bias of 'oh look another overcelebrated hero everyone talks about' that makes me want to put him out of the spotlight.

This line of reasoning was put by Diogenes of Sinope some 2400 years before McKenna drew a breath, and repeated by countless philosophers and mystics every generation. It might have been the first time you heard it, but it certainly wasn't new to most of the world.

I still think he did more good than than bad tho - he was pretty much the sole voice saying psychedelics have the potential to be good. Every other voice from the police to the government to everyone in the medical profession proclaimed them worthless and dangerous.

P.J. O'Rourke, Murray Rothbard, Noam Chomsky, Hunter Thompson, Sasha Shulgin, Milton Friedman, Robert Anton Wilson, Leo Zeff, David Nichols, Jonathan Ott, Albert Hofmann, John C Lilly, Aldous Huxley, and (arguably) Howard Lotsof and Deborah Mash, plus, of course, Ron Paul, among countless others.

 

[Jesusgreen]

This doesn't surprise me nor make what he said about the 5 gram shroom experience any less worthwhile. I still haven't to date had any experience with picked mushrooms but I have experienced Psilocin and Psilocin's acetate ester 4-AcO-DMT which is more akin to Psilocybin (Psilocin's phosphate ester) - along with both of them in a mix, and I know how the experience can be quite troubling especially if one has issues to deal with in their life and is avoiding confronting them. When I used to take them when I still had severe social anxiety I remember I'd curl up in a ball thinking about how all I need to do is go outside and look for a job or go to a bar and I'll meet people but I remember at the time in the day I was good at pretending I didn't care that I didn't have any friends since moving here and that being at home was better anyway, while the experience forced me to realise very strongly to the point of tears that all I wanted was to be around people and to be free to get out of the house.

The problem with Terence's 5 grams of mushrooms alone theory is - well, if my Psilacetin and Psilocin (and both combined) experiences are anything to go by then they can show you some beautiful things, like they're how I experienced ego death, 7 times. However taking a psychedelic alone when you have a really difficult issue to face is like going out to face an army alone - you'll feel your real emotions and sadness brought to the surface much worse than you notice them during the day, you'll know exactly how you can beat one of those soldiers but that big ass army looks too scary so you won't do it. For me I finally cured my anxiety when I took AMT with one of my best friends, and while I believe AMT has its own magic due to its empathogenic nature, I think had I gone back and taken Psilacetin or Psilocin with a friend that I trust that much it would have done the same thing - the psychedelic can lead you to water, but sometimes it takes the push of another person to show you that it's not just you tripping and that the trip is in fact delivering the correct message and it is just as simple as going out, and then them to push you into finally doing it and breaking the barrier that was holding you back all along.

I'm glad I took McKenna's "high dose in bed in a dark room" advice to begin with as I may never have experienced ego death and conquered my daily thoughts and fears about dying, but I'm also glad that I didn't continue on with it forever. Honestly once you've experienced the whole "high dose in a dark room" thing and had that "Holy shit this can really happen?" experience, low doses outside in nature on a bright and sunny day are the best for introspection if you ask me, or at home with a pen and paper if you don't want to go out.

That's the thing about psychedelics though, psychedelics aren't like a medication where you have to keep going back to the same drug with the same feeling expecting the same result - they're something you can take every so often have interesting experiences, resolve life issues, just see some pretty colours glistening through the tree leaves, or to have some fun. Each person treats psychedelics differently and each person gets a result based on how they treat them, overdo them just eating them every day trying to achieve the same result (for example your ego consciously trying to achieve ego death just because of how good it feels) leads to you getting your ass kicked by them eventually. I've had my ass handed to me when I ate > 100mg of 4-AcO-DMT trying to ensure I'd get ego death, ended up stuck inside my own version of ego limbo for a good long time that felt like forever.

Since that experience I stopped treating psychedelics like toys, admittedly it took a lot longer to learn to do that with other drugs and there's still the occasional time when I act silly.