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Bupe Sure way to be free of prec. withdrawals?

M

Mafila

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
93
I have been on Suboxone for the past year and I have recently been trying to quit. I tapered down but when I jumped off I couldn't help but end up relapsing on pills. First day I took 20mg of Methadone, second day I took 90mg of Roxicodone, and on the third day (Wednesday) I took 40mg of Methadone. I had a bad psychological urge to take Suboxone yesterday but I knew that if I did I would have precipitated withdrawals which I have had before which not only sucked but also made me have to take twice as much Suboxone just to feel normal.

Today is Friday, two days and approximately 42 hours since I've taken the 40mg of Methadone. I feel a little more sick than yesterday but still the physical withdrawals are minimal, just minor sweats, chills, and a lot of yawns and teary eyes but no pain. I'm wondering if it's safe to take a Suboxone dose without having to experience precipitated withdrawals. I searched for info on this but all I found was very unspecific and generalized and opinions on how long to wait varied widely from 36 hours to 72 hours. I was wondering if anyone has a straight answer on the subject of how long I should wait before I'm clear of getting precipitated withdrawals.

By the way, I know there were plenty of these threads in search, but I was never able to find a clear or straight answer I was looking for, so sorry if I'm bringing up an old subject but I would really like to see if there are any straight-forward answers on how long to wait or if it simply depends on the person. Any helpful posts would be appreciated, thanks.
 
try to take .5mg.. i think you will be alright. although i do hate answering these questions cuz if im wrong you will get sick and it would be my fault.. so maybe don't take that .5mg lol.
If w/d's are minimal than why dose? just wait until you are in full w/d's to take it.. maybe tomorrow than?
 
I don't need the sub to get through the day, I just need it to get me through the night because last night I barely fell asleep with 1mg of Xanax which is usually more than enough for me because my Xanax tolerance isn't exactly high. Well that was my only Xanax and I'm going to need to wake up at 4AM tomorrow to work a twelve hour shift from 6AM to 6PM. If I had a hard time being able to sleep last night then there is no way I will be able to fall asleep tonight to get up in time at 4AM. I feel the w/d's getting worse by the hour, although pain and muscle aches are still fairly minimal, so once I hit the 48-hour mark at 6PM I may take 4MG of sub. Although I normally do no more than 2MG at once I'm guessing I will need to take more sub than normal incase there is still Methadone attached to my receptors. Is that the case or does sub dosage not matter in terms of precipitated withdrawal?
 
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Man you can take the sub like 24 hours after the done (in my experience).... The whole "wait 72 hours after methadone" thing is in my opinion only relevant to people on MMT. If you just took 40mg of methadone, you should be good. Just last month I took 75mg of methadone, and then took a little peice of suboxone about 25 hours later. The chills are how I judge when it is best to dose sub. When the chills become constant, you're golden.

Just my opinion, you seem to be suffering plenty enough to take your medication. But congratulations on your will power man!
 
Thank you for the input.

I'm guessing 48 hours should be enough time for the Methadone to leave my receptors. My only other question is does it matter how much Suboxone I take in relevance to precipitated withdrawals? If I take 1mg and it gives me precipitated withdrawals then should I take more? Or should I take a larger dose like 4MG altogether to lessen the chances of precipitated withdrawals?
 
Just took 2mg of Suboxone subligual strip 47 hours after I took the 40mg of Methadone. Only time will tell now. :|:\
 
It has been one hour since I've taken 2mg of Suboxone. I haven't felt any withdrawal symptoms since, so I guess everything is alright. I've had previous horrible experiences in which I waited 36+ hours and still got really bad precipitated withdrawals for an hour. I guess even though I wasn't fully sick enough of the Methadone was out of my system to not induce precipitated withdrawals. The one feeling I always get now after Suboxone is the small feeling of regret that I shouldn't have taken it and should have kept going strong on my route to sobriety. Oh well, I'll be out of Suboxone by Monday and I will have the next week off from work so I'll try again after working this weekend.
 
Mafila, good to know everything worked as planned! I have yet to experience precipitated withdrawal and hopefully never will.

Have you tried dosing sub (small doses, of course) every other day, then every two days, three, four, etc.. until you have minimal withdrawal symptoms? This might be helpful if the suboxone wd is a trigger for relapse.

Good luck to you in your quest for sobriety!
 
I'm wondering the same thing I never ever take methadone and I took 4 of the tens about 24 hrs ago and I have a sub but I'm so scared to take it but I'm sick and want to----- what should I do?
 
Gradual buprenorphine titration can realistically be done directly after doing heroin. Precipitated withdrawal is essentially a syndrome of 'shock'. As long as you don't shock your brain chemistry, you wont feel it happening.
 
If you start .25mg of bupe, then add .25 45 mins later, then .5 more an hour after that and so on in a long gradual titration, then at which point will the body experience precipitated shock? The answer is never.
 
Lynzye said:
I'm wondering the same thing I never ever take methadone and I took 4 of the tens about 24 hrs ago and I have a sub but I'm so scared to take it but I'm sick and want to----- what should I do?
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Use the COWS scale. Even with a fast metabolism, you're probably not ready to take bupe after only 24 hours since the methadone. Methadone has a long half-life. 36 hours at the low end.. It usually takes 2-3 days to be sick enough after methadone to take bupe. The fact you only took 40mg's and just one day, will help a lot, as there isn't a large build up in your system.

But, the best way to be sure is to make sure you are in moderate-severe withdrawal. Just being a little bit uncomfortable is not enough.
 
I disagree. Although safe and responsible, that's advice out of a medical journal. It may have no practical use because it suggest taking a dose of buprenorphine when the time is right. The whole problem lies is telling when that right time is... The COWS scale never worked in my experience. I could score very high on it and still go into PW, that's because i wasn't titrating.

Think of the buprenorphine as an army of redcoats. Now the blues, which are your full agonist opiates, are sitting calmly in the receptors at the train station. You take 8mg of redcoats (bupe) and they barge into the train station weapons drawn in such large numbers that the blues have to surrender. This is shocking to your body and mind, as great change just took place instantaneously. But you take .25mg and a couple switch seats and you never even notice. Add a little more and the tables begin to change. Before you know it, your train station is full of buprenorphine like nothing ever happened. No physiological shock, no derailment. Just smooth operating.
 
Crashing said:
I disagree. Although safe and responsible, that's advice out of a medical journal. It may have no practical use because it suggest taking a dose of buprenorphine when the time is right. The whole problem lies is telling when that right time is... The COWS scale never worked in my experience. I could score very high on it and still go into PW, that's because i wasn't titrating.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you're wrong on that but... whatever. Ha.

I didn't even read the whole thing with the redcoats, bluecoats.. whatever that was. But, do you man..
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
Pretty sure you're wrong on that but... whatever. Ha.

I didn't even read the whole thing with the redcoats, bluecoats.. whatever that was. But, do you man..
Click to expand...

Buprenorphine, a partial antagonist, has a stronger affinity for the Mu opioid receptor (the receptor responsible for feelings of euphoria and well being) than full agonist opiates. At the same time, it has a lower intrinsic effect, so while it occupies the same space in the receptor and trumps the other opioids, it activates them to a much lesser degree.

When we directly replace full agonist opioids with buprenorphine, the result is an unpleasant shock as the entire receptor site is more or less spontaneously replaced by something with less 'net activation'. The user feels an immediate loss of comfort due to the entire receptor site being attenuated all at once.

Gradual Titration allows the buprenorphine to slowly trade places with the full agonist opioids without the user knowing because there is no average "net loss" of receptor activation which is the feeling of being high.

Eventually at the end of the titration, the buphrenorphine now covers the entire receptor area, but the user never became physically aware of this transformation in any sort of unpleasant way, because it took place in a gradual fashion.

Sorry about the bad metaphors in the previous post.
 
Some people also simply do not get precipitated wds. Unfortunately, the only way to tell if you're one of the lucky ones is...well, you know. Ha.
 
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