Uncle Robert
Bluelighter
Don't be too hard on yourself. Chances are you would have sold them at a small profit when the price started to go up, instead of holding onto them until the price went to a place nobody would have imagined.
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European & African
Drug Discussion
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bluespeed
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2013
- Messages
- 179
Such a shame all the post-SR1 marketplaces were shitty. Hopefully there will be quality successor one day. I'm afraid that no marketplace in the next few years will be completely safe though, because:
The technology to make every transaction, as well as the marketplace itself, completely safe from cops is already here. At least theoretically. The issue is that every single user would have to have deep knowledge of cryptography and do everything right, which is not going to happen. The average user of any marketplace silkroad,blackmarket,sheep etc. does about a hundred mistakes per minute that could identify him/her (I made the number up hehe but you get the idea). I'm glad I never used such site as I was too scared. And it was good decision, because the more I know about privacy and cryptography, the more I realize how little I actually know and what mistakes I'd make, had I ordered something. Ignorance is bliss, lots of people think that by just using Tor for a drug order they're out of danger. And 99% of them will never be targeted by cops which will justify their belief that using fucking Tor is enough so they won't try to advance their privacy.
As long as cops are able to catch a few users, doesn't matter whether dealers or just buyers, it can easily collapse as the users can snitch their dealers, who can snitch their big dealers, who can snitch admins, who can give out access to the site. A large marketplace inevitably has several persons with access to critical data so it's guaranteed at least one of them will trade the site's fate in exchange of freedom.
If you read about SR1 collapse in detail, you already know that. For example the cops took advantage of several scared innocent boys who just bought a couple Gs of weed to get access to dealers, they also employed fake dealers to become trustworthy and so on. Lots of tricks to get what they want, also let's not be naive to think that cops themselves don't break every possible law to justify investigation.
The FBI had actually employed a coke dealer who made dozens of transactions, from 1g to 1kg+, to identify medium scale dealers, using seized coke from police vaults.
I personally believe that thousands of people are in danger of jail, most of them escape any legal action just because they're not interesting enough. For now.
Living outside US helps as US cops have the biggest resources and power, however the Utopia crackdown proves that other nations cops don't sit around smoking joints all the time either.
Then there are highly skilled hackers which are of course more competent than all cops combined, who can steal deposited money. But at least they won't turn in the users.
All of this is just my educated opinion on the matter which might be blatantly incorrect at some point.
I believe that dealing the old way is generally safer than using any marketplace.. the attraction of darkweb marketplace is that you can order any drug which is otherwise unavailable in your location though..
The technology to make every transaction, as well as the marketplace itself, completely safe from cops is already here. At least theoretically. The issue is that every single user would have to have deep knowledge of cryptography and do everything right, which is not going to happen. The average user of any marketplace silkroad,blackmarket,sheep etc. does about a hundred mistakes per minute that could identify him/her (I made the number up hehe but you get the idea). I'm glad I never used such site as I was too scared. And it was good decision, because the more I know about privacy and cryptography, the more I realize how little I actually know and what mistakes I'd make, had I ordered something. Ignorance is bliss, lots of people think that by just using Tor for a drug order they're out of danger. And 99% of them will never be targeted by cops which will justify their belief that using fucking Tor is enough so they won't try to advance their privacy.
As long as cops are able to catch a few users, doesn't matter whether dealers or just buyers, it can easily collapse as the users can snitch their dealers, who can snitch their big dealers, who can snitch admins, who can give out access to the site. A large marketplace inevitably has several persons with access to critical data so it's guaranteed at least one of them will trade the site's fate in exchange of freedom.
If you read about SR1 collapse in detail, you already know that. For example the cops took advantage of several scared innocent boys who just bought a couple Gs of weed to get access to dealers, they also employed fake dealers to become trustworthy and so on. Lots of tricks to get what they want, also let's not be naive to think that cops themselves don't break every possible law to justify investigation.
The FBI had actually employed a coke dealer who made dozens of transactions, from 1g to 1kg+, to identify medium scale dealers, using seized coke from police vaults.
I personally believe that thousands of people are in danger of jail, most of them escape any legal action just because they're not interesting enough. For now.
Living outside US helps as US cops have the biggest resources and power, however the Utopia crackdown proves that other nations cops don't sit around smoking joints all the time either.
Then there are highly skilled hackers which are of course more competent than all cops combined, who can steal deposited money. But at least they won't turn in the users.
All of this is just my educated opinion on the matter which might be blatantly incorrect at some point.
I believe that dealing the old way is generally safer than using any marketplace.. the attraction of darkweb marketplace is that you can order any drug which is otherwise unavailable in your location though..
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BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
Actually, I'm not sure whether that's the case. The greatest danger is someone corrupt on the inside. Once someone untrustworthy has physical access to the server, all bets are off. And the only way to make it truly secure is to regard everyone running the show as untrustworthy. Which means you need a server admin who doesn't know what the fuck is going on inside their own box. Ain't gonna happen. We aren't the type to fall for the trans-shipment scam (where a criminal gang pay a "kite" to collect parcels from a PO box rented in their own name, re-address them and pass them on -- i.e., transport god-knows-what to fuck-knows-whom and take all the risks. In the event of a bust, the authorities chase the kite -- but the gang have already "let go of the strings", and there is no trail leading back to them.)
You might just about manage, with a virtual server in the Cloud, and admin tasks so well automated that nobody needs to touch it (for instance, logs to /dev/null never even need rotating .....) It doesn't matter so much that the server is on the public side, as long as all traffic in or out is encrypted against a key known only to the intended recipient. You also would have to decentralise everything, so actual transactions would be carried out on the vendor's and purchaser's machines only and the central server would not have anything interesting on it if it was seized by the authorities. It still leaves you potentially vulnerable to individual vendors or (less likely) purchasers being targeted and possibly giving up their contacts. The sooner everyone can be notified that someone has been compromised, the quicker any connecting evidence can be wiped (automated, of course; you can't leave that decision up to a sentimental human being who might try to keep a copy anyway just in case, but then it's too late .....) And if people haven't met face-to-face (and so nobody knows what anybody else looks like and is therefore unable to identify them positively), the damage can be contained that way.
As others have pointed out, though, this is precisely the sort of enterprise likely to attract persons of reduced scruples. And the only countermeasure I can see against that is iron-fisted leadership, essentially more powerful than the Law of the Land. Automated machinery ultimately answers only to the Laws of Physics, which qualify thus; but people ..... ?
You might just about manage, with a virtual server in the Cloud, and admin tasks so well automated that nobody needs to touch it (for instance, logs to /dev/null never even need rotating .....) It doesn't matter so much that the server is on the public side, as long as all traffic in or out is encrypted against a key known only to the intended recipient. You also would have to decentralise everything, so actual transactions would be carried out on the vendor's and purchaser's machines only and the central server would not have anything interesting on it if it was seized by the authorities. It still leaves you potentially vulnerable to individual vendors or (less likely) purchasers being targeted and possibly giving up their contacts. The sooner everyone can be notified that someone has been compromised, the quicker any connecting evidence can be wiped (automated, of course; you can't leave that decision up to a sentimental human being who might try to keep a copy anyway just in case, but then it's too late .....) And if people haven't met face-to-face (and so nobody knows what anybody else looks like and is therefore unable to identify them positively), the damage can be contained that way.
As others have pointed out, though, this is precisely the sort of enterprise likely to attract persons of reduced scruples. And the only countermeasure I can see against that is iron-fisted leadership, essentially more powerful than the Law of the Land. Automated machinery ultimately answers only to the Laws of Physics, which qualify thus; but people ..... ?
bluespeed
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2013
- Messages
- 179
^What you say isn't really contradictive to my post, I think we can agree that the issue is not the technology, it's always the human factor that's risk.
I can't imagine how to get solve undercover dealers, you never know who you deal with because well, that's the whole point of it, to be anonymous. So whenever you buy large quantities there's the possibility you expose yourself on a silver plate. Using different address from your home doesn't help when they already know what place to monitor. Arresting medium dealers most probably isn't useful for shutting down the marketplace but it means you can never be sure if you were compromised, if you're a dealer yourself.
Also we never know how secure a marketplace *actually* is, we have to take authors's word, the admins giving out details about their technological solution would defeat the purpose obviously.
After all the same applies for crypto exchanges, more than half of exchanges that ever existed were eventually hacked OR the admins themselves ran away with users BTC after a while of service. It's good to have online btc spread on 5 exchanges to reduce danger.
I can't imagine how to get solve undercover dealers, you never know who you deal with because well, that's the whole point of it, to be anonymous. So whenever you buy large quantities there's the possibility you expose yourself on a silver plate. Using different address from your home doesn't help when they already know what place to monitor. Arresting medium dealers most probably isn't useful for shutting down the marketplace but it means you can never be sure if you were compromised, if you're a dealer yourself.
Also we never know how secure a marketplace *actually* is, we have to take authors's word, the admins giving out details about their technological solution would defeat the purpose obviously.
After all the same applies for crypto exchanges, more than half of exchanges that ever existed were eventually hacked OR the admins themselves ran away with users BTC after a while of service. It's good to have online btc spread on 5 exchanges to reduce danger.
I take issue with that. Current ones are doing very well, and the site mentioned in the news is paying back the millions it lost (fuck they make a lot of money)
Bitcoins have dipped under £400 now, so I've bought up even more...
Need to them to rise over £490 to make profit now.
Rise, bitties, riiiiiiisse...
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
This Lofty?
I admire your faith in human nature, and I wish I could share it fully.
Unfortunately I don't think we can talk about 'old school stoners' in the same breath as internet drug barons. While there may well be opportunities for the odd 'honest' grower here and there, the nature of business itself (rather than anything intrinsic to prohibition or the illegal drugs trade) will limit the numbers of such. Collectives are possible, sure, but watch out who's keeping an eye on your profit margins.
I wouldn't want to be keeping an eye out, would you?
I've seen more than one 'honest' person lose their values through the drugs trade, and I'm sure you have too. I've never heard of a single soul becoming more honest because of it.
Laurence_Perkins
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 24
The thieves ruin it for everybody!
knock
Bluelighter
The reason I have any hope for our future (and I do) is that I'm pretty sure "nurture"/culture/tradition or whatever you want to call it, is far and away more significant than "nature" in determining human behaviour.
Read up on nice people(s) rather than serial killers and maybe that will brighten up your outlook
http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Are you admitting to having been Julie all this time?
I have no argument with that, and nothing in the content of my posts contradicts it. There's nothing in the way of a distinction between nature / nurture either; only the observation that criminal niches tend to be filled by those with a strong desire for profit and a disregard for the legality of said profit-making activity.
I just think that big business (the drug trade in particular) actively discourages altruistic behaviour. Were we talking about the PR industry (for example) then I'm sure we'd all agree.
I should have avoided the use of 'human nature' in my response, perhaps, but it still stands.
Good luck, all you gentleman smack dealers...
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mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
I guess people have to ask themselves out of however many 'dodgy transactions' they may have made, how many have been successfull, and how many times they have been ripped off. There seemed to be a greater number of 'honest' dealers on SR compared to that other place that sounded like a chocolate bar, due to there being a proper genuine ebay feedback type system on SR1 which was far more transparent than the other place and all the shill accounts, as obvious as most of them were.
The drugs trade is rife for ripping punters off, there is little they can realistically do except warn each other about dodgy dealers.
The drugs trade is rife for ripping punters off, there is little they can realistically do except warn each other about dodgy dealers.
knock
Bluelighter
Are you admitting to having been Julie all this time?
what are you on about?
I'd agree with that.
True enough, if you hadn't said that, my HUMAN NATURE REFERENCE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM would not have been triggered!
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
I thought you were answering my post as if you were Julie. For a second I thought I had a scoop.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
True enough, if you hadn't said that, my HUMAN NATURE REFERENCE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM would not have been triggered!
Yeah, I should know by now. :D
trammies
Bluelighter
I heard recently about that other non-Tor Network place, losing all of its drugs related forums. It probably won't be long before the scammers and shills from there attempt to make their way to Tor Marketplaces for quick scams. Obviously a lot of them will be lost through the actual comparative difficulty of use between the aforementioned forums and the Tor Network Marketplaces, and particularly becoming a vendor through them.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Online drug-scamming became a pretty big industry with that 'other forum'. Too big for the scammers to let go of, you're right.
trammies
Bluelighter
It was the first place I heard of on the internet before I heard of Tor, a few years back. You had to be very cautious, but I used it, and found some genuinely great guys, at first, but the place started going really downhill after that point. I left it because I genuinely had no more use for it.
Went back a few times over the years and it was mostly a huge joke, filled with spam and scam. Then I heard the other day it's basically gone.
Ahh, how times change.
Went back a few times over the years and it was mostly a huge joke, filled with spam and scam. Then I heard the other day it's basically gone.
Ahh, how times change.
th3 s1aught3r
Bluelighter
Do the Bitcoins stay on your computer? Like in a virtual wallet?
If you lose the computer are you totally screwed ?
If you lose the computer are you totally screwed ?
trammies
Bluelighter
So, I transferred BTC from LocalBit to my wallet at blockchain.info, and it's taking quite a while for them to transfer. I've never had this before, anyone have any clue what's going on/why it's happening?
EDIT: Never mind, didn't notice this-
Probably shoulda' paid more attention before trying to move them, now they're floating in Aether...
EDIT: Never mind, didn't notice this-
LocalBitcoins said:
Probably shoulda' paid more attention before trying to move them, now they're floating in Aether...
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swampdragon
Bluelighter
I had a nosy the other day at that place and the posts are still happening, just in other forums. Still full of scammers though.
bluespeed
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2013
- Messages
- 179
Exactly.
There are very few people in the entire world who can say they bought at ideal time and sold at ideal time. Like, maybe 100 people. All either extremely lucky people or extremely talented and experienced day traders/investors who already had millions before btc was invented.
It doesn't matter that those 10btc is 6000$ right now. There are people who lost or sold at the wrong at time hundreds or thousands bitcoins because they didn't and couldn't know it would reach so high values.
I personally know a guy who got into btc weeks after it was public and at one time he owned (mostly mined himself) over 10 000btc. After few months he sold them for about 500$ total (0.05$ per btc).