Map of the Day: The High Cost of Vaccine Hysteria

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bit_pattern

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http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/01/map-day-high-cost-vaccine-hysteria

blog_map_measles_mumps.jpg

It's no surprise that Africa has been heavily hit, but why are the United States and Europe seeing so many outbreaks? Aaron Carroll explains:

  • All of that red, which seems to dominate? It’s measles. It’s even peeking through in the United States, and it’s smothering the United Kingdom.
  • If you get rid of the measles, you can start to see mumps. Again, crushing the UK and popping up in the US.
  • Both measles and mumps are part of the MMR vaccine.
  • Use of the MMR vaccine plummeted during the aughts, as vaccine-autism hysteria was spread by charlatans and the ignorati. Needless to say, this did nothing to affect the incidence of autism, but it sure had an effect on measles and mumps. To this day, though, I don't think any of the vectors of this hysteria have so much as apologized. It's shameful.
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ignorati is a great word

Citizenship should be contingent on inoculation. You're free to reject the shots, but you have to move to Mali.
 
I'm laughing my ass off right now.

I haven't had a "vaccine" in 10 years and in that time, I've never had the flu.

Oh and I got measles a month after getting my MMR when I was a kid.

Keep believing what you want about vaccines and I'll keep believing the truth.

http://www.naturalnews.com/041963_vaccines_cancer_viruses_dr_maurice_hilleman.html

^ that's a Merck vaccine creator LAUGHING about putting cancer viruses in vaccines to be given to Americans.

Vaccines kill. They aren't good for anything else.
 
Unvaccinated people kill, I don't understand why you think otherwise. While I'm usually all up for conspiracy theories when the evidence suggests something odd is going on, suggesting that vaccines is some kind of plot to get cancer injected into you is a strange one.
 
23536 said:
Citizenship should be contingent on inoculation. You're free to reject the shots, but you have to move to Mali.
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I think that citizenship is going a bit far, start with segregating the schools. I wouldn't want unvaxed kids putting my children at risk (schools are the biggest risks)

MagickalKat - vaccines introduce the virus into your system so your body creates anti-bodies resistant to it, so there is always a small number of people who contract the disease after being vaccinated, but that is no reason to be against them.
 
You're never going to sell me on vaccines. I have a ridiculously strong immune system but every time I get a vaccination, I get extremely sick. I used to get my flu shot every year - stopped doing it when I finally put two and two together and realized that I ended up with the flu about a week later every time. I haven't had the flu since I stopped getting the shots even though I'm exposed to it every time.

Sorry, you won't ever be sticking me with a vaccine again. And if they start bringing up segregation, I guarantee you there will be another revolution. There are too many health conscious people waking up that won't put up with that bull.

It blows my mind that people can be against the biotech industry and the pharmaceutical industry but then want to go on a witch hunt when they find out that someone refuses to be vaccinated by the same industries that they claim to not trust.

I just don't get how people blindly trust the very industries that have destroyed our health in the first place to have our best interests in mind by injecting toxins right into our bloodstream... 8(
 
MagickalKat777 said:
I just don't get how people blindly trust the very industries that have destroyed our health in the first place to have our best interests in mind by injecting toxins right into our bloodstream...
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I don't blindly trust anything - I assess the evidence as far as I can and come to an informed conclusion. Whereas you seem to blindly trust that sites like Natural News - that seem to exist primarily as a portal for selling the books and vitamins they just happen to recommend as an "alternative" to big, bad modern medicine - are telling you The Truth™ on the flimsiest of arguments and evidence.

But tell me this, if vaccines are so bad, and they're supposedly making people so sick - then why the world get so much better since vaccines were developed. Why is it that millions don't contract polio? Why isn't mumps and rubella a blight on society any more? Why isn't smallpox something you have to live in silent fear of that it might swoop down out of the night and kill your whole family? Why can you live in the tropics without breaking out with yellow fever (it makes your skin turn yellow and peel like a banana, or so the sailors used to say, it's still around - I mean you could always prove how bad vaccines are by going and hanging around in the swamplands of Panama for a few month without getting your yellow fever jab, bet you wouldn't though).

Ugh.

People like you would be mildly amusing if it weren't for the fact that your irrational and anti-scientific world view is putting the rest of the community at risk :|
 
MagickalKat777 said:
You're never going to sell me on vaccines. I have a ridiculously strong immune system but every time I get a vaccination, I get extremely sick.
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some people are like that. according to my immunology prof some people just have an extremely aggressive innate immune system and they often get unpleasant side effects from vaccination, because the unspecific immone response quickly eliminates the offending antigens, and additionally immunisations are less effective in those people, because the adaptive immune system doesn't have enough stuff left to work on. a good friend of mine is exactly like that too. every time he receives a vaccination, he gets extremely sick and for some vaccinations his antibody titers a few weeks later look almost like he wasn't vaccinated at all.

on the other hand there are people like me, who easily catch a cold, stay sick just slightly elevated temperature for about a week (even with real influenza), until the adaptive immune system starts to kick in. this has the benefits of having nearly no side effects from vaccines and antibody titers through the roof (i've only had the first two shots for HepB and will never need another one in my lifetime).

flu vaccines are special (in a bad way) anyway. they are just guesswork which flu strain will become prevalent in the next year and have (because of this natural limitation, you cannot anticipate a vaccine for flu in 5 or 10 years) way too short peroids of testing and refining.
vaccines for measles on the other hand have had huge amounts of research and testing done, have been refined and improved over the decades, so they give around >95% of people protection from measles compared to the not-very-impressive number of somewhere around 65% for flu shots (even for those exact strains that people have been vaccinated against).
in addition to that measels is a disease that has humans as its only reservoir. so it's a disease that can easily be eradicated by vaccination, eliminating the need for vaccinations in all future generations, just as has happened with smallpox.
while i wouldn't recommend flu shots for anyone with a functional immune system, but there's no reason not to get a vaccination for measles.
 
Black said:
some people are like that. according to my immunology prof some people just have an extremely aggressive innate immune system and they often get unpleasant side effects from vaccination, because the unspecific immone response quickly eliminates the offending antigens, and additionally immunisations are less effective in those people, because the adaptive immune system doesn't have enough stuff left to work on. a good friend of mine is exactly like that too. every time he receives a vaccination, he gets extremely sick and for some vaccinations his antibody titers a few weeks later look almost like he wasn't vaccinated at all.

on the other hand there are people like me, who easily catch a cold, stay sick just slightly elevated temperature for about a week (even with real influenza), until the adaptive immune system starts to kick in. this has the benefits of having nearly no side effects from vaccines and antibody titers through the roof (i've only had the first two shots for HepB and will never need another one in my lifetime).

flu vaccines are special (in a bad way) anyway. they are just guesswork which flu strain will become prevalent in the next year and have (because of this natural limitation, you cannot anticipate a vaccine for flu in 5 or 10 years) way too short peroids of testing and refining.
vaccines for measles on the other hand have had huge amounts of research and testing done, have been refined and improved over the decades, so they give around >95% of people protection from measles compared to the not-very-impressive number of somewhere around 65% for flu shots (even for those exact strains that people have been vaccinated against).
in addition to that measels is a disease that has humans as its only reservoir. so it's a disease that can easily be eradicated by vaccination, eliminating the need for vaccinations in all future generations, just as has happened with smallpox.
while i wouldn't recommend flu shots for anyone with a functional immune system, but there's no reason not to get a vaccination for measles.
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V. informative. Thanks.
 
Black said:
some people are like that. according to my immunology prof some people just have an extremely aggressive innate immune system and they often get unpleasant side effects from vaccination, because the unspecific immone response quickly eliminates the offending antigens, and additionally immunisations are less effective in those people, because the adaptive immune system doesn't have enough stuff left to work on. a good friend of mine is exactly like that too. every time he receives a vaccination, he gets extremely sick and for some vaccinations his antibody titers a few weeks later look almost like he wasn't vaccinated at all.

on the other hand there are people like me, who easily catch a cold, stay sick just slightly elevated temperature for about a week (even with real influenza), until the adaptive immune system starts to kick in. this has the benefits of having nearly no side effects from vaccines and antibody titers through the roof (i've only had the first two shots for HepB and will never need another one in my lifetime).

flu vaccines are special (in a bad way) anyway. they are just guesswork which flu strain will become prevalent in the next year and have (because of this natural limitation, you cannot anticipate a vaccine for flu in 5 or 10 years) way too short peroids of testing and refining.
vaccines for measles on the other hand have had huge amounts of research and testing done, have been refined and improved over the decades, so they give around >95% of people protection from measles compared to the not-very-impressive number of somewhere around 65% for flu shots (even for those exact strains that people have been vaccinated against).
in addition to that measels is a disease that has humans as its only reservoir. so it's a disease that can easily be eradicated by vaccination, eliminating the need for vaccinations in all future generations, just as has happened with smallpox.
while i wouldn't recommend flu shots for anyone with a functional immune system, but there's no reason not to get a vaccination for measles.
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This makes a lot of sense. You're the first person who has ever both provided evidence that some people have unpleasant side effects from vaccines and stating why that happens while simultaneously admitting that for most people, flu shots are not recommended or effective.

My immune system is so overactive that I can't even have piercings. My body rejects them all. I've also been told that I will likely get extremely ill if I get a tattoo for the same reason.

Hell I can't even get strep throat anymore because the last time I had it, my body killed it. I'm a carrier now. Comes in handy when everyone around me gets strep since strep beat me down more than anything I've ever had. It damn near killed me that last time.

You're right though - most of the negative press out there about vaccines revolves around the flu vaccines besides HPV and polio vaccines.
 
There is also a huge difference between having a cold and even a reaction to the vaccine compared to actually getting influenza. Being bedridden for 2-3 weeks with high fevers and full body aches makes a mockery of people who get the sniffles and come to work while complaining they have "the flu". If you ever truly have the flu you know it is more than a snotty nose and a sore throat.
 
^^ True, but those people probably still shouldn't come into work in an infectious state, even if it is relatively minor. The virus that causes a sore throat and snotty nose in your body could lead to pneumonia in someone else's body.
 
One Thousand Words said:
There is also a huge difference between having a cold and even a reaction to the vaccine compared to actually getting influenza. Being bedridden for 2-3 weeks with high fevers and full body aches makes a mockery of people who get the sniffles and come to work while complaining they have "the flu". If you ever truly have the flu you know it is more than a snotty nose and a sore throat.
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+1 so very true.. the flue hits like a freight train and your fucked. just that everybody these days uses flue as a synonym for a common cold.

Hey if people dont want to get immunized then i dont want to hear any bitching when your fucked or your child is fucked. Period.. I will go about my immunized day smiling:)
 
One Thousand Words said:
There is also a huge difference between having a cold and even a reaction to the vaccine compared to actually getting influenza. Being bedridden for 2-3 weeks with high fevers and full body aches makes a mockery of people who get the sniffles and come to work while complaining they have "the flu". If you ever truly have the flu you know it is more than a snotty nose and a sore throat.
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Yeah because you know exactly how those of us who are hypersensitive to innoculations react.

Every time I get the flu shot, I get the FLU. Not a cold, not something I shake after a few days, I get the full-blown "fuck everybody and everything, I feel like I'm going to die" for 7-14 days and I've come close to going to the hospital a few times. I don't get it when I don't get the shot, even when I'm exposed to it.

The bulk of my work history was in call centers with shared desks (3 shifts so two other people besides me sitting at my desk) so when one person got something, the entire floor got it. I stopped getting the flu when I stopped getting the flu shot. The only thing that I ever caught after that was I did end up with H1N1 (which I kicked in a few days, it was nothing compared to the seasonal flu I had previously and when I kicked H1N1, my immune system was just weak enough that I got the seasonal flu that year about a week later - it was FAR worse) and I still occasionally get colds.

True, but those people probably still shouldn't come into work in an infectious state, even if it is relatively minor. The virus that causes a sore throat and snotty nose in your body could lead to pneumonia in someone else's body.
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People go to work because their employers force them to. That's an inevitability unless employers change their policies (which won't happen because of how many people abuse the system).

By the way, why is this in DiTM? This is a health article and vaccines are not drugs.
 
23536 said:
ignorati is a great word

Citizenship should be contingent on inoculation. You're free to reject the shots, but you have to move to Mali.
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big time nazi attitude. people should have to right to consent to a medical procedure or not. whether you think that is good or not should not be the bearing factor in a patients choice.


people here seem to get too utilitarian. if for example they were forced into abortion like happens in china for the good of the state but if you have enough money you can bribe your way into another baby, would they like it? hell no with bells and a cherry on top

everyone in this thread- stop having bad attitudes about your opinion is the only right one and should be forced on people. vaccines can have side effects including very severe negative ones rarely so its all about patient choice
 
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pofacedhoe said:
big time nazi attitude. people should have to right to consent to a medical procedure or not. whether you think that is good or not should not be the bearing factor in a patients choice.


people here seem to get too utilitarian. if for example they were forced into abortion like happens in china for the good of the state but if you have enough money you can bribe your way into another baby, would they like it? hell no with bells and a cherry on top

everyone in this thread- stop having bad attitudes about your opinion is the only right one and should be forced on people. vaccines can have side effects including very severe negative ones rarely so its all about patient choice
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Pretty sure 23536 was talking in jest. The issue isn't about denying people consent, it's about informing them of the balance of risk. Of course patients should have the power of consent but it should also be an *informed* consent.

The ill-informed hysteria around the perceived risks of vaccination isn't reflective of the best evidence available on the risk and benefits of the procedure.

And, because there is a lot of ill-informed opinion going around about vaccination, children are once again dying unnecessarily of diseases that were as good as eradicated because well-intentioned people such as yourself were misled into not vaccinating their children.

It's a problem when people make decisions based on false and misleading information that leads to an epidemic of children contracting potentially fatal and entirely avoidable diseases that were otherwise for all intents and purposes eradicated from the community.

By all means, people have the right to consent. But they also have the right to receive accurate and evidence-based information - something which extremist elements that oppose vaccination purposely seek to distort.

The best course of action for anyone concerned about vaccinating themselves or their family is to talk to their doctor, assess the potential risks and the potential benefits based on the best available evidence and based on an individual's own medical circumstances - and make an informed decision on that basis.

The thing NOT to do is take the decision to NOT talk to a doctor on the basis of misleading and inaccurate information sourced from fringe elements whose views are not reflected by mainstream medical science.

That is dangerous and stupid course of action and should be discouraged in the strongest possible of terms.
 
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I'm with you MKat. I don't trust vaccines. How could I, with all that shit they reportedly contain? And when you hear stories like this one, you start to understand how people all over the globe might be a little distrustful over the whole thing.

Plus, with pharm companies wanting to chip meds, it's only a matter of time before vaccines have a chip in them as well. Everyone else might be OK with that shit, but I'm not.

If y'all want to protect yourselves against disease by using sketchy vaccines, go for it. Just don't force me to take them! I might reconsider if Polio breaks out again... but for the flu? I'll suffer through the flu naturally, thank you very much :)
 
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