Psychedelic cults

[electrodevo]

i am not that into psy but you are hardly alone with your idea of feeling conspired against at a psychedelic event.

But, um, this is what is called a "side effect" of LSD. Paranoia and schizophrenia type feelings / experiences. (It is noteworthy that medications that work in reverse of LSD (5-HT2A antagonists like olanzapine) are often anti-psychotics that are used to treat said symptoms.)

Set and setting is important for psychedelics, in part because psychedelics temporarily and deliberately alter your brain transmission process. In many ways, psychedelics induce a partial, semi-controllable psychosis state. The "dark psy" was not in the OP's head, but I'm afraid that a lot of the conclusions, that this was some *deliberate* manipulation of energy etc., is. The dark psy DJ was probably playing shit he likes, that's all.

Like I said, I don't think all music -- even in the psytrance scene -- is composed on psychedelics, or even for psychedelic users per se. Or if they are, perhaps they really do like darker sounds during their trip. In my opinion, many dark styles don't go with psychedelics very well, but dark styles have *always* been in the electronic music scene since. (I would hate to hear the reaction to gabber or darkstep or power noise or *really* old school industrial (Throbbing Gristle etc.) or whatnot). The correct reaction one should have, if this was a fest with multiple DJs / tents, would be to move to a tent with a style of music suitable for the trip instead of freak out. Or, if one is really going to freak out this bad, don't trip at fests and stick to smaller trip parties etc.

 

[Magickduck]

But, um, this is what is called a "side effect" of LSD. Paranoia and schizophrenia type feelings / experiences. (It is noteworthy that medications that work in reverse of LSD (5-HT2A antagonists like olanzapine) are often anti-psychotics that are used to treat said symptoms.)

Set and setting is important for psychedelics, in part because psychedelics temporarily and deliberately alter your brain transmission process. In many ways, psychedelics induce a partial, semi-controllable psychosis state. The "dark psy" was not in the OP's head, but I'm afraid that a lot of the conclusions, that this was some *deliberate* manipulation of energy etc., is. The dark psy DJ was probably playing shit he likes, that's all.

Like I said, I don't think all music -- even in the psytrance scene -- is composed on psychedelics, or even for psychedelic users per se. Or if they are, perhaps they really do like darker sounds during their trip. In my opinion, many dark styles don't go with psychedelics very well, but dark styles have *always* been in the electronic music scene since. (I would hate to hear the reaction to gabber or darkstep or power noise or *really* old school industrial (Throbbing Gristle etc.) or whatnot). The correct reaction one should have, if this was a fest with multiple DJs / tents, would be to move to a tent with a style of music suitable for the trip instead of freak out. Or, if one is really going to freak out this bad, don't trip at fests and stick to smaller trip parties etc.

OK. My point, still remains. My experience completely aside, I am speaking of psychedelics in general. They cause something people call 'imprinting' (no one has even remotely replyed to this point) in groups of people in which they will imprint upon one another psyche's - their way of thinking, talking, sentence structure, slang, common phrases, etc. Have you ever noticed this after tripping in a group of people?

Okay, now you know the psychdelic experiance? how many of you have experianced 'signs' from the universe, or synchronicities during your trip..? okay now imagine falsely implanted signs, people pulling strings behind the scenes causing specific synchronicities on purpose and cause specific signs from God.... they may feed ideas of numerology and then use times and numbers to manipulate people...

Now imagine really fast music to go along with this, with samples with dictating voices in the background, declaring certain things over you (in front of an altar) - these are normally good things.... , frequencies that make you feel specific emotions, etc (the one time i talked about this being used to make people feel bad or dark emotions)...

I am telling you guys, yes, i am crazy, but this shit happens.

Do you not agree that its also a SIDE effect or one of its strongest effects that it puts you in an hypersuggestive or impressionable state? I am sure this is how manson convinced those girls to murder... and on a less sinister note, i think this happens accidently all the time when one person gets access to psychdelics and starts sharing them they are regarded as people's personal shaman and stuff - i saw another poster mention this in this thread and i also think some members of this forum are treated this way... not that its a bad thing per say...

but can you answer me, have you seen THAT happen? the small little groups of people with the personal shamans?

 

[neal cassady]

surprised not to see anyone mention Ya Ho Wha in this thread -
anyone into psych music might know of Ya Ho Wha's contribution to free form freakouts and avant garde rock.
they put out a bunch of real great material in the 70s
& apparently started one of the first 'organic' restaurants in CA.

in short, they were a cult that formed in the late 60s and early 70s,
and really took that whole idea to a new level.

new documentary was released by Father Yod/Drag City recently.
Source Family - Youtube Trailer

also, the whole history of the Theosophical Society (late 1800's)
and how that relates to the formation of 1960's ideals and 'new age' thinking,
and thus systematically branched out into dozens of lifestyles surrounding the metaphysical and 'occult'

 

[webbykevin]

well I personally don't think the thread should have been moved as this was about psychedelics putting one into a hyperimpressionable state and there being people who can manipulate this thus PD-HR.

I think it should have been moved to mental health myself, get yourself some professional psychiatric help.

Be careful out there kids! don't blindly follow shit, don't overuse LSD, and take everything with a grain of salt.

Oh, perhaps I was wrong, with such a deep and well founded scientific argument like that who can disagree.

 

[EarthBounded]

Its not a terrible thread, it just had nothing to do with psychedelic science, it had to do with drug culture / music culture / spiritual culture, psychedelics were becoming a fraction of the topic.

Who know maybe I will jump in now and discuss energy work etc..

MGS You da man I wasn't trying to disrespect ya just thought it turned into something that belonged elsewhere, like DC.

 

[gremlin moon]

I am on an electronic music forum and I linked to this thread. Coincidentally, one of the posters was the decorator at that particular event and knows about Magicduck's experience. From post #66 on.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...2-ultimate-goa-trance-technique-thread-3.html

 

[DJRolling]

sorry dude, the constant talking about "brain wave frequencies" really is killing it for me. that's not a thing man. it was only thought to work by putting DIFFERENT frequencies in each ear, causing your brain waves to change to synchronize them. this (in theory, it doesn't work at all) only works with headphones or some other way to make sure one ear hears one thing, the other ear hears another, and they don't hear the sound going into each other. you cannot alter brain waves or thought patterns with sound, it does not work.

 

[electrodevo]

I am on an electronic music forum and I linked to this thread. Coincidentally, one of the posters was the decorator at that particular event and knows about Magicduck's experience. From post #66 on.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...2-ultimate-goa-trance-technique-thread-3.html

Heh. Psykovsky, eh? I have only a couple of tracks of his on my MP3 dumping ground... really, not too heavy on the insane horror. But one of the tracks is very fast tempo with a lot of synced zipping type sounds and psych pads and sample loops, ending with "let's loop Joy Division's "Love Will Tear Us Apart" and see what fucked up effects we can throw at it" (Psykovsky loves pitch shifting in this track). Weird, but it's more "ah, boys and their toys."

As far as the OP's point on imprinting and whatnot, I cannot answer that question. Tripping is more personal to me. But naturally, I'm an introvert by nature.

 

[Magickduck]

Actually I left before psykovsky played, it was sean psyonic's set that fucked my head up the evil bastard. but thats besides the point. i wonder who that was, lol

I guess cult really was a bad choice of words, as http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm
Neither the rainbow gathering nor the psy scene fits any of this. Some of the darkpsy fests may be darker gatherings with different intents, but I suppose they are not a cult.

 

[DJRolling]

Actually I left before psykovsky played, it was sean psyonic's set that fucked my head up the evil bastard. but thats besides the point. i wonder who that was, lol

I guess cult really was a bad choice of words, as http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm
Neither the rainbow gathering nor the psy scene fits any of this. Some of the darkpsy fests may be darker gatherings with different intents, but I suppose they are not a cult.

but I thought they wouldn't let you leave? just ask for this thread to be closed (and archived) already man. at least this has gotten me closer to regaining my "bluelighter" status =P

 

[Magickduck]

but I thought they wouldn't let you leave? just ask for this thread to be closed (and archived) already man. at least this has gotten me closer to regaining my "bluelighter" status =P

You obviously havn't read my posts as I have already explained that. They wouldn't let me leave as 1. I could not drive and 2. They wouldn't let me wander around by the river down the road (even though I had a sober person with me and was level headed enough to just calm myself down until daylight) I suppose I understand as they did not want to draw attention to themselves. So they were looking out for all of our best interests. Nevertheless, it fucked with my head. And this thread keeps getting drawn offtopic but I guess thats because the topic is not clear. Perhaps I should let this one die and eventually make a new thread in PD called Imprinting on Psychedelics and just discuss imprinting.

 

[DJRolling]

You obviously havn't read my posts as I have already explained that. They wouldn't let me leave as 1. I could not drive and 2. They wouldn't let me wander around by the river down the road (even though I had a sober person with me and was level headed enough to just calm myself down until daylight) I suppose I understand as they did not want to draw attention to themselves. So they were looking out for all of our best interests. Nevertheless, it fucked with my head. And this thread keeps getting drawn offtopic but I guess thats because the topic is not clear. Perhaps I should let this one die and eventually make a new thread in PD called Imprinting on Psychedelics and just discuss imprinting.

you just explained the reason why they didn't let you leave. I've read that. I quoted the post in which you said "I left before..." which implies you were allowed to leave. yet you just explained to us again that you were NOT permitted to leave, and listed reasons for that...

 

[Magickduck]

Oh, I guess to clarify even though the main point of this thread was not about that festival or that experiance I was not able to leave that night, I left the next day during daylight, psykovsky played on day 2.

further edit, when I spoke with one of the main organizers of the event she said a few times "we intended for all the darkness to dissipate by saturday afternoon and had healing and light in place for sunday" or something along those lines. not that they had any bad intentions, but friday was focused on darkness and saturday (which I left before) on light. I do not know if she means the music or the ritual (but psykovsky plays dark psy and he played saturday so i assume she meant the ritual..)... She explained to me some of the rittual behind it with the intentions of "ego-loss" and things of that nature, but all had good pure loving intentions, there were aparently 2 people involved in the ritual apsect of it (they aparently held a few plant medicine ceremonies to prepare for it) who were in a "sprititually abusive " realitionship whatever that means were kicked off the team but perhaps that could have caused it.... but other than that they intended nothing but love and light and she even went so far as to bury a crystal grid for protection in the ground all around the festiva so who knows, all in all, I had a bad trip, and that was not what this main thread was suppoesd to be about.

 

[DJRolling]

Oh, I guess to clarify even though the main point of this thread was not about that festival or that experiance I was not able to leave that night, I left the next day during daylight, psykovsky played on day 2.

thank you, please stop assuming no one is willing to read the entire thread before replying. "that was the next day" would have sufficed, not what could be copy pasted from 2 or 3 other posts about not being able to leave.

 

[Professer]

Has anyone else noticed the tendency of psychedelics to create little cults all over the fucking place? Either large groups of people which spread to small groups of people to single individuals who spread it even further. And there are all sorts of these - psytrance festivals, the rainbow gathering, etc... I cannot say that these are all a bad thing as the one thing they all seem to have in common is LOVE - however there are also things like the Waco cult or charles manson to think about.

I wouldn't relate these to cults at all -- and the rainbow gathering isn't psychedelic focused at all. Trust me I've been to some gatherings, they're not about drugs in the least bit. Sure many individuals have tried and/or appreciate psychs for what they are -- that's just the individual. The rainbow family isn't about drugs, and psytrance is a style of EDM is it not? Neither of these are a result of psychedelic use or related to them at all.

I think the entire basis of this thread is off-base.

 

[Magickduck]

I wouldn't relate these to cults at all -- and the rainbow gathering isn't psychedelic focused at all. Trust me I've been to some gatherings, they're not about drugs in the least bit. Sure many individuals have tried and/or appreciate psychs for what they are -- that's just the individual. The rainbow family isn't about drugs, and psytrance is a style of EDM is it not? Neither of these are a result of psychedelic use or related to them at all.

I think the entire basis of this thread is off-base.

psychedelic trance is most certainly based off of psychedelic use and the psychdelic experiance...


the rainbow gathering is focused on psychedelic ideals, and I think many would agree was the result of LSD. As in, without LSD, the rainbow family would not be.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Anyone who has spent time on a jam band lot, especially, the grateful dead lot (or furthur etc) probably had a run in with twelve tribes and their bus. I would consider them a "psychedelic" cult. they prey on "lost souls" on the lot. In other words they recruit people who are really lost in their life and most of the time use extreme amounts of psychedelics. I am not sure their inner workings and how/if they use psychedelics. But, psychedelics definitely play a huge role in their cult one way or another. They have hostels, delis and various business all over the world. You can read about them on google.

haha I've seen their bus at a phish show I stayed far away since they seemed like a cult to me and my suspicions were right. They ignored me since I was with friends, not a "lost soul", and not alone. I did not take any of their literature, talk to them, buy anything from them or their slave labor stores/companies, and I saw their bus and how way too "friendly" they seemed to be towards people and stayed far away.

I know people who consider Timothy Leary, Ram Dass, and others to be part of a psychedelic cult, and there was the brotherhood of eternal love.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Eternal_Love

If you want a more modern day version of psychedelic cults look at the McKenna brothers, the cults of Ayahuasca ceremonies in various countries, the temple of true inner light, the Native American "church", Ibogaine cults, the vegetal "church", and the Peyote way "church" of God.

 

[DrunkardsDream]

You know, the tone of the "psychedelics and delusion" post was one of annoyance. I just read that today. And now another one that has an "irked" vibe. It's all smacking me in the face.

Actually he/she is correct people who take way too many psychedelic drugs too often, are delusional.

 

[limonov]

I've stayed out of this thread for a while now because it was all fairly hysterical for a while...BUT-

There was a 'psychedelic cult' in Wellington (New Zealand) for many, many years called 'Centre Point' and led by a guy called Bert Potter. It didn't start as a psychedelic cult, it started as a '60s 'free love commune thing led by Bert Potter...Potter declared that sex was natural (much like the Children of God) and should be practiced by everyone- basically paedophilia was encouraged as 'healthy' and 'natural'. It wasn't a psychedelic cult per se, it was clearly a 'cult' type group started by a paedophile to give him access to children, however after a certain point in the 1980s Bert Potter started experimenting with drugs, which he had opposed during the initial hippy movement that centrepoint came out of.

LSD, MDMA & Ketamine were bought in huge amounts and centrepoint was heavily involved with the drug trade in the late '80s (I probably took drugs that originally came from centrepoint- which is kinda sickening). They even were manufacturing MDMA on their compound at one point. They also were definitely the first group to import huge amounts of ketamine to New Zealand. Drugs were used to control the members, as well as a way to groom children for abuse...the popularity of ketamine with Bert Potter should tell you everything you need to know about why he suddenly started advocating drug use.

Eventually Centrepoint was raided- in 1990 the compound was raided and large amounts of LSD and MDMA were found. Bert Potter still advocated against drug use publically, so just that was a major scandal. However that raid broke the wall of silence and allegations of serious abuse came out and like half a dozen people were convicted of paedophilic offences in 1991.

I remember the centrepoint people and retroactively, I know that I and a lot of people I know had dealings with the centrepoint people when they were dealing/manufacturing drugs. Wellington is a small place, it was impossible not to notice the massive influx of ketamine, MDMA & LSD. The centrepoint people would also turn up at various 'counter culture' events- as it happens I, as a satan worshipping boot-boy, threw a beer bottle at their van thing in 1985 at a motorcycle run in Lower Hutt...not having any time for their weird '60s peace and love bullshit.

So yeah, don't deny the possibility that- at the very least- psychedelics can be (ab)used by sociopathic individuals to control groups of people. It happens, it's happened all over the fucking world! Charles Manson anyone? Gordon Skinner- the guy who helped make/distribute the acid you took in the '90s- drugging his then girlfriend for months? Psychedelics are just chemicals- they can be used for good, they can be used for bad...just like most things. It's ridiculous to say otherwise when there are such well documented cases of psychedelics being used for all sorts of terrible reasons!

 

[Livinginthealps]

haha I've seen their bus at a phish show I stayed far away since they seemed like a cult to me and my suspicions were right. They ignored me since I was with friends, not a "lost soul", and not alone. I did not take any of their literature, talk to them, buy anything from them or their slave labor stores/companies, and I saw their bus and how way too "friendly" they seemed to be towards people and stayed far away.

I know people who consider Timothy Leary, Ram Dass, and others to be part of a psychedelic cult, and there was the brotherhood of eternal love.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Eternal_Love

If you want a more modern day version of psychedelic cults look at the McKenna brothers, the cults of Ayahuasca ceremonies in various countries, the temple of true inner light, the Native American "church", Ibogaine cults, the vegetal "church", and the Peyote way "church" of God.

Yes, they most definitely are a cult. Though, they hide behind many elaborate covers and schemes. From restaurants ,stores, to hostels all around the world. Talking with people who have been involved with them one way or another in the past (other than using their services) you will hear many different experiences. Not one told to me, has been positive. Though with that said, I do not know what their main intention is and I doubt it can be all* bad. But, you never know what they really are about until you are too deep. They are known to use mind games to take all your properties, money, businesses etc. They are led to believe, it will benefit all their brothers and sisters. In the end not many know where the money ends up. But, chances are it goes to fund all the dozens of establishments and businesses they have around the world.
I have heard a few varying perspectives on psychedelics and the twelve tribes. Though, one thing for sure is their desire to feed on lost souls who have no where to turn and are generally too high to make efficient decisions. 8(