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When will Testosterone levels return to pre-opiate use levels?

Dr Pepper

Dr Pepper

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I'm not currently on high dose opiates, only about 30mg oxycodone per day; I just recently had major hip surgery which unfortunately was not very successful and I might need another surgery.

Anyways, opioids suppress testosterone, estradiol, dht, etc; this is a well known fact.

Many people seem to opt for TRT to restore these levels since they do not want to get off of the opioids.

I, however, would like to get off of the opiates; i used to be a heroin addict and at the time I was having ED issues and other symptoms of low T during that time.

My levels recently, when using opiates sporadically, were around 400ng/ml. Bear in mind, I am 22 years old. I also underwent HCV treatment with interferon (successful) a couple years back which messed with my test levels as is a common effect of combination antiviral therapy for Hep C.
My levels used to test above 600ng/ml before my addiciton. This was when i was 18, and shouldn't have even peaked in test production (which normally occurs around 25 years old from my knowledge)

Regardless, When off opiates for a month I had tested a bit over 500 ng/ml, which i can live with. But i wonder if they will keep increasing over time, since it likely took a couple years for them to become so suppressed with opiates.



My question, now, is if and when testosterone levels will return to normal after chronic opiate use?
In occasions where opiate use was very high doseage as well as long term, such as long term chronic pain patients, will there ever be a rebound? Seems like everyone just jumps on testosterone instead of allowing their body to attempt to restart production.

I realize there isn't much in the way of studies; i was hoping for anecdotal evidence but a study would be very interesting testing levels of addicts while on their DOC, then after being off for lets say 1, 3, 6 months. Without replacement therapy for either opiates or for testosterone. Simply let the body restore its production. Anybody care to chime in?
 
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In theory you'd epxect to see testoosterone levels raise back up as soon as you discontinued the drug. But of course there are other factors at work, like the changes in excercise/diet associated with a full blown opiate addiction, and the simple fact that testosterone levels peak in the mid-20s and then decline with age.

In one study measuring hormonal status one
month after cessation of heroin use, testosterone levels
returned to normal
Click to expand...
http://www.inflexxion.com/uploadedFiles/Publications/Publications/Katz_2005_painmgt.pdf

There is also a ref i could not find the fulltext for, "Finch et al 2000", saying morphine-induced test depletion was reversed upon discontinuation of the drug.

By the way, test levels of anywhere from 300 to 1200 ng/ml are considered "normal".
 
sekio said:
In theory you'd epxect to see testoosterone levels raise back up as soon as you discontinued the drug. But of course there are other factors at work, like the changes in excercise/diet associated with a full blown opiate addiction, and the simple fact that testosterone levels peak in the mid-20s and then decline with age.


http://www.inflexxion.com/uploadedFiles/Publications/Publications/Katz_2005_painmgt.pdf

There is also a ref i could not find the fulltext for, "Finch et al 2000", saying morphine-induced test depletion was reversed upon discontinuation of the drug.

By the way, test levels of anywhere from 300 to 1200 ng/ml are considered "normal".
Click to expand...

Thats the thing. Maybe these guys had a test level of 700ng/ml before opioid use. Then they were down to under 100ng/ml on heroin. Now they get off and maybe get back to the normal range (above 300ng/ml), but this is less than half their actual pre-opiate levels, even though it is in the "normal" range for men. But lets say for a 25 year old man, 350ng/ml should not be considered "normal".
Thanks for the input!
 
Perhaps you do not realise what "returned to normal" means; it means that testosterone levels returned to whatever they were before.
Remeber, everyone's biochemistry is different. Testosterone levels also vary depending on the time of day, like other steroid horomones. If you want to convince your doctor to put you on testosterone, it's your choice. But I personally would not feel it necessary if you had levels of 400-500 ng/ml.
 
I'd probably be better to use something like clomiphene citrate, one of the drugs athletes use to restore their natural test production. There has also been some research done using it in low dosage for about six months. On average, this doubled test levels in subjects. Side effects? Zero. Of course long-term safety is not established, as it is with TRT.

To be honest, being on the low end of the spectrum when 22 years old means it's probably lower then is good for you. Diet, stress and sleep are also important factors.
 
at what point does opiate use practically impact testosterone levels? would something like 5 g of kratom brewed as tea (or 5 mg hydrocodone if available) one to four times every two weeks be noticeable in that regard? (that is, dosing anywhere from once every two weeks to twice a week, but usually once a week)
 
It seems to me the only people who should be concerned are daily, every day, or multiple-times-a-day opioid users, esp. those on mainrenance programs and chronic pain patients.
 
hollywood_cole said:
at what point does opiate use practically impact testosterone levels? would something like 5 g of kratom brewed as tea (or 5 mg hydrocodone if available) one to four times every two weeks be noticeable in that regard? (that is, dosing anywhere from once every two weeks to twice a week, but usually once a week)
Click to expand...

It would suppress test levels slightly about 2 hrs after consumption, and there would be a slight rebound effect after it leaves the body and LH rebounds.
Most likely not noticeable, but over a long period of time, it could only stand to lower your levels.

sekio said:
Perhaps you do not realise what "returned to normal" means; it means that testosterone levels returned to whatever they were before.
Remeber, everyone's biochemistry is different. Testosterone levels also vary depending on the time of day, like other steroid horomones. If you want to convince your doctor to put you on testosterone, it's your choice. But I personally would not feel it necessary if you had levels of 400-500 ng/ml.
Click to expand...

No, getting on test is the last thing I want. Maybe when i'm 50.. I know my body is more than capable of producing.
Return to normal, I believe, means return to the normal range. Unfortunately the citation "Plasma testosterone levels during chronic heroin use and protracted astinence. A study of Hong Kong addicts." Is only available in text, and its from 1975.

How would they have the pre-levels of addicts? I doubt they would. All that is said is that levels returned to 'normal' which is defined as 300-1200ng/ml or whatever. But that doesn't mean pre-opiate levels. Unless "normal" means not significantly different that a control group. Unfortunately the study is not available online.
 
How would they have the pre-levels of addicts
Click to expand...

In the case of rats, they simply measure T levels before introducing opioids. In the case of humans, usually T is checked as part of routine blood tests, so if you have ever had blood drawn before it is likely they'll have some data point for you. (And of course, you can do the statistical thing where you see what people of similar age, ethnicity and build who don't use opiates have)

Ostensibly you could try supplementation with things like DHEA (steroid precursor to testosterone/estrogen), or if that isn't legal in your jurisdiction, cholesterol (a further upstream precursor - without cholesterol your body cannot make steroid horomones, but I would not eat "straight" cholesterol, try to get it from natural sources like egg yolk, cheese, and meats). Also ensure to get lots of good, non-drugged sleep. Resistance training can also help. Magnesium, zinc, vitamin D are also important, if you are deficient in those it will impair T production/levels. Avoid anti-androgenic/estrogenic compounds like spearmint, soy, excessive amounts of nuts/seeds, and licorice, too. Losing some weight, if you can stand to lose some, is also a good way to raise T levels.
 
I'm not sure about the mechanism by which opiates suppress LH and FSH but when it comes to the use of AAS or drugs like finasteride you're pretty much screwed if your levels don't get back to what they were before in a few months. The state of the art in HPTA restarts involve clomid and hcg. Unfortunately only a very small percentage of people will maintain the increase in T levels after getting off the clomid. Nobody seems to know exactly why they body decides that this lower level is now the one to maintain. Probably involves some epigenetic changes which are unlikely to be reversed by simply playing around with hormone levels.
If you are so concerned about your T levels not recovering I would give a couple of months of clomid a shot maybe followed by a little aromasin after making sure that you are secondary hypogonadal. Don't have high hopes though - I've tried this a couple of times and my hormones always returned to their lower levels within a month. Also clomid has significant psychological side effects (severe depression, mood swings - basically PMS in a pill) so you can't take it on a whim.
I think you should not pay too much attention to the exact value of total testosterone unless its below normal or you're having low T symptoms regardless of what it was before. My total T levels are half of what they were (but still in the normal range) but I'm a lot more aggressive and stereotypically masculine than I was before and am also holding on to 50lbs more muscle. Too many variable at play here like ratios of estrogen / testosterone / dht, upregulation of androgen receptors etc.
 
I just had my t level checked. it's normal, after using opiates daily for more than 5 years (I didn't use anything for a 6 month period in that stretch, but you could fill that in with another stretch and still be well over 5.
 
Maintenance on subutex for 8 years with iv heroin and cocaine use for 15 years sporadically crushed my hormones...I'm 31, with test levels at 179..my LH was < 1..prolactin > 60..4x the avg high...and fsh was fkked up too...long term everyday opiate use especially with subutex and methadone crushes at least 25% of the hormones of people on it...secondary hypogonadism...its your brain that's fkked up, the loop from your brain to your nuts is jacked up from the opiated messing with your endocrine system, pituitary gland, and testosterone receptors..at least it's good to know its not primary hypogonadism and your balls still work...fkk**...OPIAD...opiate induced androgen deficiency--completely understudied and most doctors even endocrinologist in my experience don't know shit about it..go see someone well versed in opiates and testosterone -- but ill warn u they're very hard to find and be prepared to shell out the cash $$$...good luck my fellow low testosterone people...as I've finally gotten clean (5 weeks in and I can feel it rebounding slow but surely)' but it took locking myself up for a month to get here...I highly advise people never to get on bupenorphine or methadone as you'll most likely be trapped for life or you'll just go back to herion as its a much shorter w/d process..more power packed in its punch but just one round as opposed to a full 12 round bout with a friggin synthetic maintenance med...people, save yourself the agony..don't touch methadone or suboxone or be prepared to stay on it for lzzzzifffee...
 
^ I see a lot of reports of people coming off long-term bupe therapy and am just curious if there are any studies that definitively show a resulting decrease in testosterone? I ask because I know Reckitt Benckiser claims that there is not a decrease in testosterone from Suboxone use...
 
I had my T level checked a few months ago- it was still within the normal limits. I was a little surprised, but I can't argue with the results.
 
Hammilton said:
I had my T level checked a few months ago- it was still within the normal limits. I was a little surprised, but I can't argue with the results.
Click to expand...

Normal could be anywhere from 300-1200, if you're at 301 and young, its not so great..

im getting my levels tested today. currently on 4mgish suboxone daily.. chronic pain has ran its gamut since the OP and i ended up going through the whole opiate addiction thing again..
 
Dr Pepper said:
My question, now, is if and when testosterone levels will return to normal after chronic opiate use?
In occasions where opiate use was very high doseage as well as long term, such as long term chronic pain patients, will there ever be a rebound? Seems like everyone just jumps on testosterone instead of allowing their body to attempt to restart production.

I realize there isn't much in the way of studies; i was hoping for anecdotal evidence but a study would be very interesting testing levels of addicts while on their DOC, then after being off for lets say 1, 3, 6 months. Without replacement therapy for either opiates or for testosterone. Simply let the body restore its production. Anybody care to chime in?
Click to expand...

Highly subjective ok, but during the time is was taking recommended dosages of ashwhaganda extract along side my Kratom. There were many indications my testosteron were higher then my resting levels even without opiods. Sexdrive was through the roof. Now I get back on how I will feel in a few days, day 3 without Kratom. Currently not taking any Ashwhaganda so I will see how the testosterone levels will behave.
 
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^Thats all speculative without bloodwork though.

My test was 200 recently on suboxone. Got off it and on clomid, went up to 900. Then used a bunch of heroin for 2 months, now i started on clomid again, have no idea where i stand now..
 
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