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Are the profound, life-changing experiences people claim from psychedelics overblown?

weirdfish

weirdfish

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Dec 8, 2012
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United Kingdom
Brief background. I am not an experienced drug user. I have smoked weed heavily for the last four years. I started rolling in September and every time has been magical since then (six times). I drink often and enjoy it greatly though it's my least favourite drug of those I've tried. I have had just one psychedelic experience so far, though I'm open to more (with caution).

My experience with psychedelics is limited to 25i-NBOMe. I took a 600µg tab and had a great time. Music sounded amazing, all my senses were enhanced, it was like experiencing everything for the first time again. What I absolutely did not experience was any level of life changing, profound or spiritual experience. Quite the opposite in fact, I felt like my mind was numbed and I felt a total lack of intelligence. I attempted to pack a bag full of supplies for the evening whilst tripping and it took me about forty minutes. It felt amazing, but not in an intellectual sense at all. Meanwhile my best friends were going on and on about losing their ego and reaching a deeper understanding of life as if they were experiencing something truly life-changing. I couldn't help but find it absolutely ridiculous. I felt like 25i turned my brain to mush, and whilst it was fun, I got absolutely nothing out of it in the long term, contrary to my expectations.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? I was excited to try psychedelics both for the short-term mental effects and the potential long term effects on my quality of life, but I was left feeling rather empty. I suppose the question I'm asking is, do you think people approach psychedelic experiences so convinced that something really life-changing is about to happen that they convince themselves that it really has? I'm still hopeful for the benefits of psychedelics in terms of my long-term situation but my first experience rather suggested that it's just another drug that turns your brain to mush for a while before leaving you in rather the same position you started. This isn't necessarily a bad thing from my point of view, but I'm interested to hear some other opinions on the matter. Once again I'm not an experienced drug user compared to lots of you, just a beginner looking for some answers :)

thanks
 
I have only tried 25i. I definitely want to try LSD and mushrooms as soon as possible, though anecdotal evidence from friends suggests the experience from shrooms compared to 25i is overall fairly similar. I am however, extremely skeptical of such information, and I definitely want to find out for myself before making my mind up about anything.
 
Your friends nattering on all around you may have been what turned your mind to mush. Try taking it alone next time, with a favorite movie to watch or album to listen to etc. Give yourself space to think about things.
 
^agreed, but also I wouldn't go for 25i again. To me it seems like it's a very 'plastic' trip, I call it psychedelic confetti sometimes because it's usually just pretty colors unless you take a really high dose which could mean risking your life.

even pretty much any 2c I find to be more introspective than 25i, maybe even some stimulants.

and to answer your question: No, I don't think that the profundity of psychedelics is blown out of proportion most of the time. I think there's often an urge to tell people about an amazing trip, which might end up with it getting blown out of proportion sometimes.

my first trip, one eighth of an ounce of dried psilocybin mushrooms, changed my life. for sure. It changed my value system/priorities, my brain chemistry, my philosophical outlook, It inspired me for months and generally made me a way better, happier person.

then there's the breakthrough experience, that's a different animal entirely.
 
Psychedelics help dissolve the ego, allowing a person to view certain things (such as their beliefs or aspects of their life) from a different view point..

Imo, though, psychedelics have just as much chance of altering your beliefs by making you think you have worked something out.. but it'd be something you already knew anyway or something really obvious.. partly due to a dissolved ego, warped thoughts and that "eureka!" feeling. People bang on about how psychedelics taught them so much, when i've asked: like what? It'll be something really obvious, something that is probably wrong or "learning" something they already knew.

For example.. It's very common for people on psychedelics to "see" (not visually) things that aren't there and for those things to make perfect sense (when in reality, they don't).. This happens a lot while tripping. Random things could seem connected in some way when they aren't, things like that.

Because of the dissolved ego, warped views and that eureka feeling, i think psychedelics are just as likely to "confirm" any thoughts you may have (as long as they made somewhat logical sense (while tripping!), and they weren't TOO far removed from your sober mind) - which would sometimes be negative; more-so if it wasn't for psychedelics euphoric properties or their tendency to push people to a slightly more positive mind set (whether that be during the peak, comedown or hours / days after the experience.

I'm not saying psychedelics don't have potential to better a persons life or anything, cos of course they do.. but they also have potential to make someone's life worse.
 
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The most profound and impact having experiences I've had were from mushrooms, DMT, and LSD; especially mushrooms. Tryptamines once cured me of an OCD like phobia of disease when I wasn't even looking for a cure and LSD has given me insights in situations I otherwise might not have had. DMT also forced me to face certain things I vaquely felt before in very clear ways, making way for a neccisairy change in lifestyle. I kind of get the idea tryptamines are more likely to give such mental effects but I'm not very experienced with psychedelic phens, only 2c-b and the poster that mentioned psychedelic confetti; 2c-b is also kind of like that.
 
nbomes are great for visual effects and good times with friends but not so much for introspection.
 
Two questions will answer this for you:

1) Are people able to have profound life changing experiences?

2) Which is most conductive to those experiences, going round in circles in your daily routine or when breaking new ground in the extremes of consciousness, where most of your ego defenses and coping strategies are down?

Nope, profound life changing experiences on psychedelics are NOT overblown, but most profound experiences you have on psychedelics wont be life changing to an important degree.
 
Since I've never gone the route of taking heroic doses, I've found psychedelics have profoundly changed my life in incremental, at times unnoticeable ways. I echo the sentiment upthread that tryptamines are in general stronger change agents than phenethylamines, however if you are on the verge of a breakthrough or breakdown a phen can be enough.

It is not an easy journey though. The way it worked for me was a long bout of frequent but moderate LSD use precipitated a crises of depersonalization/long-lasting ego death when sober. I felt very crazy and i lost my coping mechanisms for handling the people and situations around me. Losing my ego made day to day living, especially social interactions and patterns my ego had helped form, emotionally excruciating. I had to radically change my ingrained ways of dealing with the world in order to relieve my emotional pain. I could no longer tolerate things I had easily done before. I ended up sloughing off a lot of unhelpful things. LSD alone will not change your life. What it did for me was deconstruct my cozy personal mythology and leave me empty handed. This was very dark at times, and i never experienced a "bad trip" until i hit the point of personality disillusionment. Then it was up to me to rebuild myself as a more self-realized person. Psychedelics were no help at that point as their job was done-- they had successfully broken down the walls of my false self.

There are a lot of different ways to grow from that point. Some people already have the resources within them. For me, I turned to intense study of the I Ching and used it as a guide to reconstructing myself. I need a moderate amount of ego to get by in my life. We can't all be holy madmen. I need to work a job, interact on the street, and generally get by in consensus reality. I tried to rebuild my ego in a more conscious manner and tried to construct it from more flexible, permeable thoughts. But that is work I'm doing myself and its not easy and some days are better than others.

If you're going into a psychedelic experience with the intention of profoundly changing your life, brace yourself because it can happen but it's not a quick fix. It's more like the gift if a kick in the brain that will turn walls into doorways and truth into lies. Being confronted with the truth that anything is possible -- really fully understanding that -- puts you in a place you have to find a way to reconcile on your own.
 
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I think it's best to not go into a psychedelic experience with any expectation of anything beyond fun. I mean if you take rather large doses you can pretty much count on something effecting you deeply at least, but I mostly went into it for fun and if something seemingly deeper or more meaningful came so be it. I mostly wasn't looking for that (at least at first), but there were plenty of times it came anyhow.
 
You might be onto something with your question "Are the profound, life-changing experiences people claim from psychedelics overblown?"

Examples of lsd users like Kary Mullis (seems a bit crazy in interviews), and Steve Jobs show how, even if there are definite changes in thinking due to the use of psychedelics, the changes may not have been positive in the long run. (the latter name is mentioned in reference to the anti-consumer, anti-environmental practices of Apple, despite the 'life-changing' experiences with LSD that Jobs claims he had)

McKenna's words like "you don't need to spend 25 years in an ashram..." are often not helpful for understanding the experience in my opinoion, and instead serve as an anthem blindly.

On the other hand, you took 25i, which seemed to be especially lacking in insightful changes to thought in my limited knowledge of the chemical. A more traditional like LSD has an incredible ability to supranaturalize thought.
 
My experiences with classical psyches (LSD and mushrooms, no NBOMe's) is a mixed bag. The seeming depth and profundity of your thoughts and conclusions while on them, the connection-prone mind-state, the innate desire to discover the secrets of existence and your place(if any) in the cosmos, and the psych-induced "seeing the trees for the forest", extended out to a cosmic level, can all feel immensely important, and can lead you to grapple with very deep, and ultimately unsolvable, issues. The unsolvability in fact can lead to a wind-up of looping thoughts and set off a fear survival response, whilst simultaneously knowing you are not about to die.

I also think they can cause a "haywire" type effect that there is no point in trying to think your way through. End it with benzos or AP's. There is a persistent new-agey, hippy idea that you "have stuff you MUST work through" if you have a difficult or bad trip. I disagree. The only reason to take psyches after such experiences is to perhaps attempt to get over the pavlovian association your mind and body now have with the psychedelic mind-state and survival originated fear response.

All in all, I think they are interesting and valuable(especially for research into the nature of consciousness), but on an individual level, not essential for your own self-awareness journey, due to their inherent unpredictability.

I've discovered dissociatives in the past several years, and find them much more predictable, superior in the validity of insight, and all-around much more manageable. But they also have a somewhat hard to detect negative side, and must be treated with care and responsibility
 
I've introduced several people to NBOMEs and the first thing I try to explain is that it lacks some of the spiritual feelings that seem to happen on things like LSD/Mushrooms.

I don't believe you'll understand the 'Life changing, profound' experiences from 25I. I'm sure it's explainable through scientific means, having to do with brain receptors and whatnot. Try some LSD or Mushrooms if you can. Experiment with dose as well.
 
Nbomes *(nbomes them drybones) are nothing like LSD or mushrooms. Particularly nothing like mushrooms. Totally different experience.

Mushrooms can change some peoples life but I feel there's an awful lot of misreporting by people who feel under pressure to tell their friends "Yeah, dude I underwent complete ego death and met God and he gave me an anal probe". I don't think one dose of mushrooms changes anyone life except for a few days. The week after when you're going to work in the pissing rain at 5am the mushrooms can't help you then. Regular use of mushrooms definatley does something to your brain chemistry to improve depression - that's about the most powerful life-changing thing I've found about them.
 
Ismene said:
I don't think one dose of mushrooms changes anyone life except for a few days. The week after when you're going to work in the pissing rain at 5am the mushrooms can't help you then. Regular use of mushrooms definatley does something to your brain chemistry to improve depression - that's about the most powerful life-changing thing I've found about them.
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If mushrooms taught you that is pointless to worry about things that you can't control (such as rain at 5am), then I would say that one dose of mushrooms can change your life forever.

To answer OP, No they are not, in any way, shape, or form.

I have had some of my most introspective, enlightening experiences on 25i, so its really about how you go into it. Its all about the dissolving of your ego, and every psychedelic does that.
 
The only phenethylamines i've really had profound experiences on are 2c-e & 25e-NBOMe. For some reason the halogenated ones feel more superficial. Don't get me wrong, i've enjoyed 25i, 25c, 2c-b/c/i but the alkylated ones seem to take me deeper. As do tryptamines & LSD. Granted i have had a couple really amazing otherworldly concert experiences on 2c-b (possibly my fave concert drug) and good times on the various halogenated 2c's & 25's (tried C, E, & I so far), but they just didn't quite do the same thing that the others i mentioned do to my consciousness, as reliably anyway. I did have one particularly revelatory experience on 2c-i & MDMA, but all my other 2c-i experiences have been a little lackluster, probably my least favorite 2c. 25i did feel deeper than it's PEA counterpart, and it did feel deeper than 25c, but still nothing like 25e etc.
 
Do some reading first. 25i specifically is one of the weakest psychedelics introspection wise. Even compared to 2C-B or 2C-C, I is nothing. Take something more introspective like LSD or a tryptamine. Don't classify all psychedelics off of you taking one of the weakest ones in that regard.
 
lol.

I was waiting for Ismene's work in the rain at 5am comment, for the umpteenth time..

I could say that one particular DMT experience 3 years ago forever changed my perspective on everything, it was essentially the ending point of my psychedelic use because I found my answer through the absence of an answer.

It's an experience, which can be glamorized and idolized but what's present right now is you, and that's all there ever is.. I mean fuck, realizing you are the answer to your question is both liberating and frustrating at the same time. Your now free to be you because your aware that you don't actually exist beyond your own ability to imagine yourself, but with that comes to crushing realization that you are responsible for everything in your life, because everything begins with you.

I think that's where people begin to change the most; when their forced to integrate this understanding into there life, determining value in the mundane, creating meaning through there interactions and developing purpose through personal will.

I feel psychedelics offer the catalyst for change, but really it's you who makes the choice to change; not the psychedelic.

"There are no answers, only choices"
 
Yes, they are overblown. I've done LSD maybe 100-150 times and never had a "life changing" experience. In general, "life changing" experiences from psychedelics are for people who are weak minded (dumbass religious people, for example)
 
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