Heroin Is heroin any more addictive than prescription pain pills?

[laCster]

It depends on how you use your heroin, but more often than not heroin is more addictive because it is commonly injected, it crosses the blood brain barrier extremely quickly, and morphine is known to the opiate with the most side effects including euphoria,

 

[motherofearth]

Heroin's potency varies widely, unless you have a consistent connection. In any case, heroin is usually more potent than most prescribed meds. I've read it is typically three times as potent as morphine.

In my personal experience, I abused morphine at a consistent rate for several years and did not experience too much heightening of tolerance and didn't get sick. When I started substituting heroin it became very easy to abuse the drug through highly efficacious ROAs, IV use being the culmination of this.

I know you mentioned the price aspect, OP, but the amount of opiate you are getting for your dollar is so steep it will jack up your tolerance quickly and soon heroin will be your only contender. Massive amounts, too.

 

[BlueHues]

Judging potency by weight is problematic in my opinion since these drugs produce different effects altogether....And what do we mean by "potency"? are we talking about euphoria or strictly something that knocks you on your ass?

You can't really compare temazepam to alprazolam...alprazolam is much more potent by weight, but what does that really say?

I will say, the most potent amphetamine, hands down, is meth....by weight, duration, euphoria...the whole 9 yards....

I guess certain fentanyl analogues would have to be considered the most "potent" opiates, but again, how do we define "potency"?

 

[Mass08]

I think potency is measured by how much a standard amount of each opiate activates the opiate receptors. I.E. how much activation comes from 50mg morphine vs 50mg oxymorphone vs 50mg fentanyl ect etc

 

[BlueHues]

^well that would be by weight then....

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Taking its being cheaper out of the equation, is (insufflated) H any more likely to cause addiction than the abuse of painkillers? I'm very sporadic with my opiate use and actually never buy any myself as a general rule -- my friends just hook me up because I'm fun to get high with or whatever. Just wondering if accepting bumps of H is any more likely to destroy my resolve and beg my friends to hook me up with their dealers than eating pills. I've taken two tastes recently and I guess it's incrementally more enjoyable than oxycodone but I don't really understand the additional stigma placed upon it in relation to prescription opiates. Some of my friends who rail pills and think nothing of it are looking at me like some sort of leper now.

To answer your specific question, yes I really do think snorting heroin is more likely to cause addiction than taking opioid pills orally. It also has additional dangers - you never know the purity or what's in it, (I have had heroin cut with some scary things), and it has a lower margin or error than many prescription opioids in terms of the window between high and overdosed. And because of the additional illegality, social stigma, etc, there are additional problems as well. Heroin is very sneaky, just because you tried it a couple times and didn't find it that much better than oxy does not mean you won't get addicted. I also think the temptation to go from snorting heroin to injecting it is much greater than the temptation to go from swallowing pills to injecting pills. And I think in the long-term heroin is usually more expensive, as you are more likely to raise your tolerance. I know of plenty of people who switched from pills to heroin because it was "cheaper" and every one found their use became much more expensive in the long-term, so I do not think that's a good enough reason to switch.

 

[down508]

^well that would be by weight then....

I did about 5 seconds of research and found this: "In the field of pharmacology, potency is a measure of drug activity expressed in terms of the amount required to produce an effect of given intensity"

so I think it's safe to assume when someone talks about how potent a drug is they are referring to how many mg (or ug) of a certain drug is required to produce any number of effects. potency can be based on heart rate, euphoria, analgesia, or pretty much any effect. usually in this context it's the effects users are looking for (euphoria, anxiolyisis, relaxation, ease of withdrawal) in relation to dose by weight. although some people might use it to describe the quality of the effects, I don't think potency is the best word for that.

as for amphetamines, if you count substituted amphetamines there are plenty that are more potent, although the effects are different. most people don't take meth for it's hallucenagenic properties. some examples of substituted amphetamines more potent than meth are DOM, DOB, DOC, but like I said those have very different effects than Meth, so it would be difficult to measure their potency against eachother using the above definition, especially because taking the same dose of DOB as a strong meth high would most likely prove fatal.

 

[BlueHues]

^Yeah, I was kind of talking about "normal" amphetamines...Good post though, I understand what you're getting at...A lot of these drugs come in specific doasge units, so that's how they get compared a lot of the time...In practice, "potency" seems to be more measured by, "How high can I get for X amount of money?" than anything else....And using this measurement, I'd say heroin wins....

But the OP specifically stated that price wasn't an issue....As it stands, there seems to be too many variables to give a definitive answer to the question:

"what opiates/oids give the worst withdrawal?"

 

[down508]

for withdrawal in my experience methadone takes the cake. I've only withdrawn from oxy, heroin, and methadone (for opioids at least). oxy withdrawal was nasty but felt more mental, heroin withdrawal felt more physical and overall shittier. I went to a 6 day detox after doing heroin for a couple months and after those 6 days on a methadone taper I was worse than when I went in. 3 days after getting out my pupils were MDMA size, although the symptoms such as diarhea and nausea weren't there. I was a complete wreck mentally, this is the only time in my life where I had so much anxiety I actually spent a couple hours on a mental health phone line. it was comparable to benzo withdrawal, but I felt like it made me feel even more desperate. I'm on 8mg suboxone a day and been on it for 18 months, my DR said next month we should start cutting down. I'm prescribed 16mg a day so I won't really have to cut down for another month or two. but I'll find out soon enough what suboxone withdrawls are like. I forgot my meds one day and at the 24 hour mark I got horrible RLS. hopefully we'll do it slow.

 

[Lady Codone]

With opiates, it all comes down to personal taste...and price. Heroin is a lot cheaper than, say, high-dose OxyContin. Many pill addicts switch for that reason alone. I've heard pill users say they prefer Oxy or Opana over heroin any day. Also, since heroin is usually IV'ed, that makes it instantly more addictive than something of equal potency taken orally/snorted.

From what I've read, heroin is very heavy, sedating and euphoric with a "rush" that's stronger than other opiates. Some folks dig it while others prefer the stimulating high of Oxy or something milder like codeine. Different strokes.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

When it comes to addiction, I always immediately think of two things:

1) The subjective element.
Cannabis, for me, is a highly addictive drug subjectively, because I constantly want to consume it. Enjoyment of the drug leads most people to become addicted to drugs they personally like most.

2) The objective element.
When studies are done on this, key factors are usually the quickness of onset and degree of euphoria, tied in with pharmacokinetics. Addictiviness also includes the ease or difficulty of withdrawal.


I love LSD. It comes on fast in large liquid doses. The euphoria is second to none. However, I never have any trouble staying away from it for long times, nor do I experience withdrawal symptoms - I don't count it as particularly addictive.
Many people prefer oxymorphone to heroin for its effects, but I think the majority find heroin and morphine the most euphoric, pleasant opioids. A study showed that addicts, when given oxycodone, hydromorphone, fentanyl, morphine and heroin, showed a strong preference for heroin and morphine, stating they are much more susceptible to addiction and producing euphoria.
Withdrawal from any short-acting full agonist is probably going to be fairly similar. I would say that for most people, heroin is more addictive, but some prefer different effects and find oxymorphone or oxycodone more satisfying.

With regard to withdrawal, the long-lasting ones take the cake. Kicking the habit for 3-5 days is a week-long helicopter tour of Hell, but I've heard kicking buprenorphine is like summer camp with Beelzebub's Hitler Youth. Kicking methadone is almost impossible.

Tramadol is also nasty to kick - the opioid withdrawals, though mild, last well over a week and the antidepressants take even longer.

 

[dankhead88]

God, I used to think my roxicodone/oxycontin habit was bad. Shit, heroin was a whole new ballgame for me. Then Roxis and heroin was a different ballgame AGAIN!. Really, it's IV that got me.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Some people just aren't the type to ever do heroin.. so, though it is more addicting in a lot of ways.. if it's just something you would never do, than it's obviously not more addicting for you. The problem with pills... is that many middle and upper class suburbanites get hooked on them, thinking that since they are from a doctor and not "heroin" with all the stigma attached to it.. that they'll be fine. So, that thought and that attitude makes them more addicting for a lot of people than H. They view H as something poor homeless people do and think they are above it with their bottle of oxy.. only to find out that after a few years, they have the same disease and the same psychical dependence as that poor homeless guy shooting smack in the gutter.

 

[Nakedbreakfast]

The price is a factor, but there is just something unique about h that makes it different than prescriptions.

 

[chrisalt]

Taking its being cheaper out of the equation, is (insufflated) H any more likely to cause addiction than the abuse of painkillers? I'm very sporadic with my opiate use and actually never buy any myself as a general rule -- my friends just hook me up because I'm fun to get high with or whatever. Just wondering if accepting bumps of H is any more likely to destroy my resolve and beg my friends to hook me up with their dealers than eating pills. I've taken two tastes recently and I guess it's incrementally more enjoyable than oxycodone but I don't really understand the additional stigma placed upon it in relation to prescription opiates. Some of my friends who rail pills and think nothing of it are looking at me like some sort of leper now.

Stick to pills if you have to use opiates at all. With H you dont know how pure it is, how stong etc etc.

Pills are much safer because you know exactly what you are getting.

 

[Znegative]

IMO heroin is in general the most addictive opiate I've tried. However, you have to take into account that 1)it's the firstopiateI used, and 2)I inject it. I also live on theEast Coast, and while I mean no offense to those who use tar, I just found that type of heroin so disgusting that if that was all that was available in the whole United States, I would much prefer pills.

The thing about heroin is that as an opiate, its the 'perfect storm' lol. Unlike oxycodone it gives a great rush when injected, and unlike Dilaudid it provides an actual, long lasting period of euphoria. I suppose the closest pharmaceutical opiate to rival dope would be IV oxymorphone, which I would definitely choose instead given the opportunity, though I still feel its not as euphoric as dope (but the rush is better).

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

The thing about heroin is that as an opiate, its the 'perfect storm' lol. Unlike oxycodone it gives a great rush when injected, and unlike Dilaudid it provides an actual, long lasting period of euphoria. I suppose the closest pharmaceutical opiate to rival dope would be IV oxymorphone, which I would definitely choose instead given the opportunity, though I still feel its not as euphoric as dope (but the rush is better).

Agreed. Definitely.

 

[etard7007]

It all depends on the opiate.

It is not possible to lump all "prescription opiates" into one category and compare them all against heroin. The fact is, there are a WIDE range of prescription opiates... almost every imaginable semi-synthetically produced, as well as fully synthetic (aka fentanyl), opiate that can possibly be created from the poppy has been formulated by pharmaceutical companies for pain management use.

Heroin is not used in hospitals or prescribed for pain mostly because of its stigma - people equate heroin with "bad, dirty hard drugs." But the fact of the matter is, heroin is an opiate just like any other, a semi-synthetically derived opiate from morphine - technically known as diacetyl-morphine. There are actually some countries which use diacetylmorphine for medical purposes, pain relief in hospitals. The only truly derived opiates (not synthetic in any way) from the poppy are morphine and codeine, which are modified to create all other semi-synthetics by pharm companies (don't blast me, of course there are many many more active chemicals in the poppy, these are just the MAIN, mostly concentrated, ones).

Anyway, to answer your question. It depends on which pain killer you are comparing to heroin. Both oxycodone and hydrocodone are semi-synthetic opiates derived from codeine. These are NOT more addictive than heroin. I would presume its safe to say that heroin will be much more habit forming than either of the two... ESPECIALLY hydrocodone, which only comes in formulations with tylenol in it, so snorting/IV is pretty much out of the question, as well as swallowing enough without destroying your liver before becoming addicted to it faster than heroin. That isnt to say hydrocodone isnt addictive, many people become addicted to it - it just isnt as addictive or reinforcing as heroin. Oxycodone, on the other hand, can be extremely addictive - even with the stupid OP formulation, one can still get just plain old generic 30mg oxycodone by itself... which can be IVed and snorted - there isnt really a rush to speak of when IVed, just a quick onset, but one cannot deny that it feels DAMN good and hits those pleasure centers in the brain quite nicely... and then wears off damn quick, causing the desire for another shot... aka addiction.

Even though it depends on the person, it is safe to say that heroin is MUCH more euphoric than oxycodone and thus can cause addiction much more easily. When IVed, 100% would say heroin will grab your ass so fast you wont know what hit you - compared to oxycodone.... Even when smoked/snorted, I'd say it would be still be easier to become addicted to heroin than oxycodone taken orally or snorted. But again, it depends on the person - BOTH with get you physically dependent pretty damn fast for sure though.


NOW, here is where it gets tricky. This is exactly why I said you cant lump all prescription opiates together and pit them against heroin...

The two semi-synthetic opiates that are derived from morphine are SO reinforcing and pleasurable that I would go so far as to say that they are more addictive than heroin. I'm talking about hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and oxymorphone (Opana).

Don't concern yourself with hydromorphone if you are not talking about IV opiate use - Dilaudid is pretty useless orally/snorted in terms of getting high. However, IV hydromorphone is probably one of the most pleasurable feeling any drug can give any person on this planet - it literally is a train wreck of a rush - it feels like a train of feathers is crashing through your body, thats how I describe it at least hah... its so pleasurable that its almost crippling and you have to sit down, and anything you ever thought of as euphoria is NOT EUPHORIA when compared to a dilaudid rush.... but then its GONE so fast... no legs to the high whatsoever - you are in heaven for 2 minutes and then maybe 5 minutes of a lingering feeling and then NOTHING, baseline. This extremely reinforcing feeling, coupled with its awfully short half life will have you screaming for another hit. this is so sure to cause addiction, even more so than heroin I would say... because heroin offers the user a rush, followed by hours of a nod/high... and of course, heroin smoked/snorted lasts quite a while.

Thus, I've got to say, personally, dilaudid (hydromorphone), a prescribed pain pill, is more addictive than heroin.

Now, onto oxymorphone (Opana) - This is the king of all opiates - its also derived from morphine. As I stated earlier, heroin comes from morphine also... that's why the pain killers that are synthesized from morphine are basically the only ones that can be compared with heroin in terms of addictive qualities. They are all addictive, and oxycodone sure as hell is addictive, but in general, those that come from morphine are sure to suck you down a hole of addiction faster.

Anyway, oxymorphone is the opiate that spiraled me into addiction... it is so unbelievably pleasurable and addictive I can't even explain in words. I was in horrific pain, so my case might be different... I rationalized a lot of my opiate use because of my pain, so I can't speak of how addictive it is from a "non-pain-user's" perspective, someone who only uses it for the high. But, when snorted, oxymorphone will have you nodding so hard from a low dose that you'll drool on yourself... wonderful euphoria. I IVed my instant release and snorted the extended release pills - so if you arent an IV user, I can definitely say that snorted oxymorphone feels just as good if not better than snorted/smoked heroin - thus, it is just as if not more addictive.

I myself began IV the moment I found myself in chronic pain with a nerve damaged, paralyzed arm (thank god its gone now!) ---

I have to say, oxymorphone IVed is probably the most euphoric of all opiates, HANDS DOWN. Not only is the rush the most pleasurable thing you will ever experience, but it has legs and will have you in a daze/nod for hours, much like then length of heroin, completely different than hydromorphone... the rush from oxymorph is much calmer than hydromorph, but its more pleasant... its hard to explain, but dilaudid is like a punch in the face of pleasure, while oxymorphone is like a massage of pleasure haha... Anyway, my point is, oxymorphone, when IVed, has a this slow warm rush up your body, crawling up your spine until it bursts in your head, washing pleasure all over your brain, sending you into a daze of bliss for a few hours.

In my opinion, oxymorphone feels 10x better than any heroin you could ever get your hands on - even straight from the lab, uncut heroin, couldnt compare to the feeling of oxymorphone... once again, this is an opinion!!! It is also, mg to mg, stronger than heroin - also, withdrawals come on sooner from oxymorphone than heroin - not to mention the withdrawals slightly more intense in my experience. All of these factors, make oxymorphone more reinforcing and thus I believe more addictive than heroin..... you find yourself enjoying the high more, needing to do it more often because withdrawal comes on faster, so you keep doing it, and of course addiction forms.

But with that said, both oxymorphone and heroin are SO pleasurable, its almost stupid to compare them - if you do enough of both of them, you will get your ass dependent/addicted to them.


Anyway, my point has been to show that heroin is not necessarily worse than all other opiates just because pharmaceutical companies make them and doctors say its okay to prescribe them. Opiates are opiates, and I believe that if heroin didn't have the stigma that it does in today's society, that there would be hospitals which would administer diacetylmorphine to patients in pain after car wrecks, etc. The sheer fact that oxymorphone is widely accepted by doctors says something, it is just as, if not more, addictive than heroin, yet it is totally acceptable in the medical community. I was in pain and they THREW tons of oxymorphone at me, more and more whenever i needed it - i mean, i was in HORRIFIC pain, but i was so addicted to it... so addicted. then when I would do heroin because I didnt have any of my opana, i would say "eh, this is alright, that that great."

So no, you are not some sort of leper, or nasty because you smoked heroin... if all they do is snort pills, that does not make them better than you. Opiates are opiates, and those kids who think you are fucked up for doing heroin are IGNORANT - how can they snort some addictive opiate as they tell you that heroin is bad?! Abusing all opiates is dangerous... they are all addictive. so tell them to fuck off!

thats my 2 cents... hope it was helpful.

Peace.

 

[Hiltoniano]

I agree with almost everything above. Having tried every opiate listed, i would say oxymorphone is the only opiate that feels better than heroin, and though I only snort, I have confirmed this with many of my IV using friends.

 

[BlueHues]

^Could be true, but the only times I've ever had oxymorphone was when I had a huge heroin habit, so I wasn't that impressed....expensive and hard to find as well....I wonder how much less than high dosage oxys its prescribed...I've pretty much always done heroin...I only did pills a handful of times before I started heroin