Bluelight

Thread: Using Viagra with MDMA to facilitate erections in Males

Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. Collapse Details
    Using Viagra with MDMA to facilitate erections in Males 
    #1
    Using Viagra with MDMA to facilitate erections in Males
    Jan. 18, 2004


    I have seen many references to mixing MDMA and Viagra, and many warnings accompanying them. Unfortunately, most of the warnings that I have seen seem to be parroting what someone else has "heard" as opposed to referencing any concrete scientific data.

    This is a mix that I have used on several occasions without any ill effects. But it is not something that someone should do casually. These two drugs can be taken safely together as long as one understands the medical issues that must be taken into account. In saying that, I would like to point out that I am NOT a medical doctor. And I strongly recommend that anyone thinking about mixing MDMA and Viagra first read scientifically authoritative research material available and draw their own conclusions. I would also recommend, if possible, that you speak with your doctor first and make him or her aware of your intention to start using Viagra.


    Viagra (Sildenafil citrate)
    started out as a drug product designed to reduce blood pressure. It is a vaso-dilator, meaning that it expands (relaxes) blood vessels. It is unique in that its vaso-dilator properties have the side effect of producing erections in men. Viagra does NOT produce sexual stimulation, and anyone who claims that it makes them "horny" is simply responding to a placebo effect (i.e., it can produce erections independent of sexual stimulation).

    Women should not take Viagra. There does not seem to be a positive sexual benefit from Viagra for women. At least, a woman should first speak to her doctor before attempting to take Viagra. (Currently there are other drugs under study for use by women for increased sexual function. Your doctor can provide more information about such drug studies and availability.)


    MDMA
    tends to prevent erection in a percentage of males. I do not know what the exact percentages are (there is no statistical data available for this that I am aware of). However, from the reports that I have read, it appears that erectile inhibition is experienced by the majority of males while taking MDMA. I have a feeling that this occurs as a result of MDMA's interaction with the serotonin receptors, and specifically with the 5HT1a, 5-HT1b, 5-HT1c and 5-HT2 receptor sites (5HT1a has specifically been suggested as the reason why patients taking SSRI anti-depressants experience erectile inhibition). I do not have any hard scientific data to back this up with respect to MDMA (again, I don't think that any studies of this kind exists), it is just a guess on my part.

    Something else of note, with respect to the 5HT1a serotonin receptor, is that it is also involved in the ejaculation response. Inhibition of this receptor can result in delayed ejaculation (which, again, occurs in some male patients taking SSRIs).


    Why does Viagra produce erections in males also taking MDMA?
    It appears that MDMA disables the erection mechanism by turning off the "switches" in the brain which are required to produce erections. Viagra bypasses this mechanism by directly producing smooth muscle relaxation in the corpus cavernosum and allowing inflow of blood into the penis (see: Viagra Drug Pharmacology - RxList.com). This is effectively what the brain does during sexual excitation, except Viagra performs this action independently of any brain activity being incorporated.


    Ejaculation / Orgasm

    During the MDMA Experince
    It should be noted that, although Viagra can produce erections in males taking MDMA, it will NOT aid in achieving an ejaculation / orgasm. In fact, this mix tends to produce a condition where sexual stimulation is possible, erection is possible, but ejaculation can not occur. Depending on your goals this can be either a positive effect or a negative one. On the one hand, this mix makes it possible for a male to have uninterrupted sexual intercourse for a very long period of time. On the other hand, orgasm is not possible until after the full effects of the MDMA have subsided (i.e., when the specific 5HT receptors are "freed up" to allow for the normal brain/erection/ejaculation process to occur).

    So, if one desires long periods of sexual activity then this is an ideal combination. Or, if one wishes to achieve an orgasm, this can be a very frustrating mix.

    Possible Post MDMA Side Effect
    An interesting side effect that I have noticed is that delayed ejaculation can continue for a day or two after an MDMA experience. It is by no means as pronounced as during the MDMA experience itself. But there appears to be additional "staying power" during sex than normal. I suspect that this has something to do with the 5HT receptors "reorienting" themselves after the MDMA experience has concluded, and that this process requires several days for the receptors to return to baseline. I have absolutely no idea what percentage of males experience this post-rolling effect.


    Health and Safety Issues

    Determining the Correct Dosage
    There is nothing "safe" about popping an E with a Viagra. Doing so "casually" is pretty stupid. For one thing it has been surmised that both Viagra and MDMA utilize the same metabolising enzyme P450-3A4 (see: Ecstasy and Viagra - Ecstasy.org). And this may result in a larger amount of Viagra being utilized then when no MDMA is present. As a result, it is important to take less Viagra then would normally be required.

    The correct way to determine the your dosage of Viagra is to use small amounts during multiple MDMA experiences, and increase the dose slowly for each experience until the correct amount for your system is attained. Once you have found the right dosage to produce an erection DO NOT increase the dose beyond that point.

    Let me say this again:

    1) TAKE MDMA + A SMALL DOSE OF VIAGRA.

    2) DO NOT INCREASE YOUR VIAGRA DOSE ANY FURTHER FOR THIS ROLL.

    3) MARK DOWN THE VIAGRA DOSAGE AND TRY A SLIGHTLY LARGER VIAGRA DOSE THE NEXT TIME THAT YOU ROLL.

    4) ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE A SATISFACTORY ERECTION DO NOT INCREASE THE DOSE OF VIAGRA ANY FURTHER.

    5) AT THAT POINT YOU HAVE FOUND YOUR MAGIC DOSAGE.

    Becoming familiar with Viagra's Effects
    It is probably wise to first try taking Viagra separately before attempting to incorporate it into the MDMA experience. This will allow you to better understand how Viagra effects your body, and give you a better idea of what to expect when mixing it with MDMA. Remember that Viagra is primarily a blood pressure medication, so you will notice that you fell somewhat different under its effects.


    Dose Management

    Dose increments
    Ultimately, the dosage which you will require for your body is largely dependent on your health and your age. It is best to initially start off with a dose of around 10 to 25 mgs. of Viagra, and then add an additional 10 to 25 mgs. for each roll until you have found your ideal dosage.

    Viagra is available in both 50 and 100 mg. tablets. Because of this, to obtain a smaller dose increment it is necessary to divide tablets into smaller parts. This can be done with a pill splitter, a razor blade, or even a sharp knife. When using a razor blade or knife, be especially careful not to cut yourself.

    Stagger your doses
    Do not take the MDMA and Viagra at exactly the same time. Take the Viagra first, wait 30 minutes and then take the MDMA. If you take both drugs at the same time you may experience a light headnesses, or feel that your heart is beginning to race. This is a temporary effect and it will pass in under one half hour. Just sit down and relax.

    Under some situations, it may not be convenient to take the Viagra first, and you may want to wait until later on after you have taken your first dose of MDMA. This is alright. but remember that it can take a while for the Viagra to work (anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour or so). The important thing is not which drug you take first, but rather, taking them in different time frames. This allows your system to metabilize them separately, and reduces any uncomfortable side effects.


    Other Health Issues that you should keep in mind are:

    HEART
    if you have a heart condition you should first discuss using Viagra with your doctor. Taking either Viagra or MDMA alone can put those with a cardiovascular condition at serious risk. Combining the two may further elevate the risk factor in those with known cardiovascular problems.

    At the very least, if you have been diagnosed with a known heart condition, discuss this first with your doctor before attempting to use either Viagra or MDMA.

    Priapism
    this is a condition were an erection continues for an extended period of time. And can result in the penis being starved of oxygen due to the restricted blood flow. I have personally taken up to 100 mgs of Viagra and have had no problems whatsoever. However, everyone's body is different and will react differently to Viagra.

    If you have taken the right amount for your body, you should find that your erection will come and go. For example, if you stop having sex to go to the bathroom, your erection will/should soften a bit and will allow fresh blood to flow into your penis (also allowing for urination to occur). If you find that you have a rock hard erection that does not soften at all, then you may have taken too much Viagra.

    But if you find that you have a rock hard erection that lasts longer than a few hours (without breaks), you may need to seek medical attention.

    Nitrate Inhalants (Poppers) or Protease Inhibitors (AIDS drug therapy)
    NEVER NEVER NEVER use Viagra with "poppers." They both effect blood flow and together can produce hypotension (abnormally low blood pressure). There are also interactions which can occur with some AIDS medications. For more information see: VIAGRA Warning re "Poppers" and Notice re Protease Inhibitors - James, John S.

    Dancing
    Keep in mind that you are taking a drug which effects your body's thermal regulation (MDMA) and blood pressure (Viagra). This is not a good combination for lots of dancing (the addition of reduced blood pressure could make you feel light headed, or have other unpleasant physical side effects). Granted, sexual activity can physically be very much like dancing. The key is to help your body regulate your heat (i.e., keep yourself cooled off). Take breaks every hour or so, drink power drinks (but don't over do the liquids), let your body cool itself off. The idea is to have fun, not to beat the world record for hanging at the edge of orgasm.

    So have fun! And keep cool.

    Viagra and "other" drugs
    I have no experience in using Viagra in combination with other mind altering drugs. This report should not be used as a guideline for any use of Viagra outside of the Viagra + MDMA combination.

    Lubricants
    When mixing MDMA and Viagra, it is possible to have continued sexual intercourse for many hours. This also means that it is possible to have sex longer than your natural lubricants can keep up. So be sure to have additional lubricant on hand.

    The commercially available water based lubricants work very well, and wash off easily with water. You may need to periodically "refresh" water based lubricants with a little water or add additional lubricant. A spray bottle of water (using a light mist) can work just fine for this.

    There are also commercial silicone based sexual lubricants which do not dry out (i.e., spill a few drops of them on the carpet and those droplets will still remain "wet" 10 years later). These will wash out using soap and water. They also have the added benefit of providing lubrication even under water. So if you feel so inclined to have sex in a pool, this is the type of lubricant to use.

    In general, I prefer water based lubricants because clean up is so much easier.

    Solo Sex
    Using MDMA and Viagra together does not only apply to having sex with partners. It can also be used when being sexual with one's self. Just remember to use lubricants to prevent soreness the following day.

    Sex Toys
    Sex toys can also be a lot of fun, both by one's self and with a partner. Today, there are more varieties of sex toys available than ever before. From realistic flesh like dildos to full lifelike synthetic RealDoll sex surrogates, sex toys can greatly enhance your sex play. Again, just remember to use lubricants when using them.

    Safe Sex
    Remember to bring condoms with you and use them, unless you are having sex in a closed relationship where you both are 100% sure that you have no STDs. Remember that the nicest people in the world can still spread STDs. Be responsible to yourself and to everyone else (both for STD protection and to prevent unwanted pregnencies), use protection.


    Summary
    Viagra and MDMA can be mixed with harm reduction in mind. However, doing so requires intelligent forethought on the part of the user. What I have provided here is an outline of my opinions and experiences. I am NOT a medial doctor, and it is NOT intended that my report alone be the sole basis of anyone's decision to use Viagra and MDMA together. Read further information from reliable sources, and speak to your medical doctor, if possible. Most important KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE YOU DO IT.


    References:
    Sildenafil (Viagra) & MDMA (Ecstasy) - Erowid / April 2003

    Oral Sgents in the Management of Erectile Dysfunction - J.P. Mulhall and I. Goldstein

    Viagra Drug Pharmacology - RxList.com

    Ecstasy and Viagra - Ecstasy.org

    VIAGRA Warning re "Poppers" and Notice re Protease Inhibitors - James, John S.

    Viagra & Priapism - PubMed Search - NIH

    Neural activation following sexual behavior in the male and female rat brain - PubMed Search - NIH

    Involvement of 5-HT1C-receptors in drug-induced penile erections in rats - PubMed Search - NIH

    DRUG INDUCED SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION - Thea Moore - Pharm.D., Department of Pharmacy, W.M.M.H.C. University of Missouri-Kansas City


    ========================

    Republication notice: I hereby grant permission to use and/or publish this document (in any form) without my expressed permission. The only restriction that I place on republishing this document is that any modifications or additions must accompany a notice stating that said modifications or additions were made, and were not part of the original document.



    EDIT: Jan. 18, 2004
    Update due to this link disappearing:
    Viagra Drug Pharmacology / Sildenafil Citrate - PharmacyNetworkGroup.com

    Replaced it with this:
    Viagra Drug Pharmacology - RxList.com
    Last edited by Brian Oblivion; 19-01-2004 at 00:21.
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,536
    Biran Oblivion, thats a damn fine post for your first post on Bluelight! Well done! I hope you become a regular poster if thats anything to go by.

    Would you have any problems with that being possibly incorporated into an FAQ or two we've got here? Its by far the best, and most elaborate info I've seen about MDMA/Viagra combo. At the moment we've just got
    "F. Viagra
    Due both to some of the temporary side effects of MDMA and the (sometimes) increased sex drive felt by some people, MDMA and Viagra seems to be a logical combination to many. However, this combination puts a tremendous strain on the heart, and may lead to serious problems (read: heart attack)."
    which isn't close to being enough info I think.

    You'd be credited in the FAQ course
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    Hi AN,

    It would be an honor to have it included in the FAQ. I would like to hold off for a couple of days as I keep making refinements to it. I just added the section on dancing since your post. And I am trying to flesh out any other issues that come to mind.

    Also, a "peer review" would be a good thing to do before going into the FAQ. And this can simply be the result of forum member feedback in this thread.

    Again, thanks very much. It's a real honor.
    Last edited by Brian Oblivion; 11-09-2003 at 19:30.
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    Bluelighter nowonmai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    5,471
    'Long live the new flesh'
    Great post mate...
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    Talking
    Hi nowonmai,

    Thanks!

    I was wondering if anyone would pick up on the nickname
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    Added additional sections dealing with dose staggering, Safe Sex, Solo Sex and the use of erotic appliances.
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    I think I am pretty close to being finished with this paper. There are a couple of 5HT receptors that I want to add which are similar to the 5HT1a recptor, which I want to make mention of in the next day or so.

    If anyone has any other suggestions or feedback about the paper I would really appreciate hearing from you. If not, I think it is almost ready to be added to the FAQ.

    I am planning on including permission for people to use and post the paper elsewhere. A kind of invited "fair use" opened copyright.

    Thanks
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    I think the report is ready now for the FAQ if that is still of interest.

    Thanks!
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    Bluelighter superbabydoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Melb. Australia
    Posts
    4,452
    Nice work! I was wondering, have you ever been able to check your blood pressure while doing this combination? I would be interested to see how much the Viagra drops blood pressure, and whether this could be a concern for some people. Given that MDMA increases your blood pressure, hopefully there would be some cancelling out of this effect by Viagra. You mentioned feeling some dizziness, which I guess is caused by the drop in BP. Could this be bad enough to make someone faint?

    Re: people with cardiac conditions, I would go further than saying "talk to your Dr" and point out that "both MDMA and Viagra on their own are potentially dangerous", so to be on the safe side they should probably stay away from both drugs. People with cardiovascular problems in particular would be at risk.

    Anyhow, a great post
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    I read this thread expecting another "I can't get hard on ecstasy, can I just use viagra?" type question, but instead was faced with an excellent and informative post. Top work
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    Hi superbabydoc,

    Thank you.

    Regarding blood pressure, that is an interesting question (and an excellent idea). I've unfortunately never been in a position to check my blood pressure while using this combination. It would probably be best to first take a blood pressure reading before taking either drug, then a second reading after one of the drugs has taken effect, and then a third reading after the second drug has taken effect.

    I'll try to arrange to do this sometime and let you know the results. Maybe, some of the other members of the board who try this combination, could also get a set of blood pressure readings, as well. It would be good to see how this effects a range of people.


    The sense of dizziness that I have experienced was only slight, and I took it as more as an indication that I needed to slow down a bit until I stabilized. There was also a slight "racing heart" feeling. Neither felt threatening, but I am sure that if someone was not aware of what was going on that these symptoms could alarm or frighten them.

    Originally posted by superbabydoc
    Re: people with cardiac conditions, I would go further than saying "talk to your Dr" and point out that "both MDMA and Viagra on their own are potentially dangerous", so to be on the safe side they should probably stay away from both drugs. People with cardiovascular problems in particular would be at risk.
    I'll admit that I was somewhat vague here because I am unsure of the ramifications of taking Viagra with a heart condition. I would imagine that, depending on the condition, in some cases it would be harmless, and in others could be life threatening.

    I agree, it should carry a stronger warning. I'll add a more direct warning to caution folks with heart conditions against taking either drug. (Thanks very much for pointing this out!)


    I really appreciate your feedback! I was becoming concerned when no one was asking questions or commenting on the content. Having the report reviewed by someone qualified to find any weaknesses in it makes me feel a lot better about releasing it to the public.

    Thanks very much!
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    Hi bigmick,

    I felt the need to write this after seeing so much confusion and conflicting reports about the mix (most based more on rumors and legends than any scientific data).

    Hopefully, this can provide a starting point for anyone trying to get a clear idea of its use and safety concerns.

    Thanks very much!
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Cialis (tadalafil) is metabolised mainly by CYP3A4 just like viagra (sildenafil). Tadalafil doesn't inhibt CYP2D6. So its safe.
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    I am Brian Oblivion, but I now have a different user name.

    I have been rather interested in Cialis and plan to repeat the same series of steps I did with Viagra.

    flux21,

    I know exactly what you are talking about regarding an "engorged-with-blood type reaction." I have found this occurs occasionally rather than during each MDMA/Viagra experience.

    I am very glad to hear that you have experienced less side effects from taking Cialis. Although I haven't had the experience of having nose congestion from Viagra, I do sometimes feel like I am on a plane (where the cabin pressure is changed).

    Something else that I have wondered about regarding Cialis is its use in combination with methamphetamine. The short effect period of Viagra is not much of a problem with MDMA since MDMA is also relatively short. Whereas, with methamphetamine it is possible to go on indefinitely, and Viagra's limited effect period becomes something of a nuisance.

    There are also definite marked differences in MDMA induced ED and methamphetamine induced ED. Methamphetamine ED appears to be far more sensative to arousal levels, one's focus of attention, and overall ideation. And sometimes viagra does not work, while at other times including Viagra is entirely unnecessary.

    Developing a working model for MDMA was not all that difficult, but I am having a hell of a time doing the same with meth.



    BilZ0r,

    Thanks for that information.
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •