• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Speed/Meth tolerance prevention/reduction [long]

Im sure somone here can give me some insight....

I was wondering about Wellbutrin's effects along with taking Adderall....
because in my situation, I am perscribed both. I take (only) 150mg of Wellbutrin everyday, and 20mg of Adderall maybe 2 days a week...this is because I developed tolerance so quickly.

Heres my question though....Because Wellbutrin and Adderall both work on norpinephrine and dopamine, and have similar effects, does taking Wellbutrin make tolerance WORSE in the long run for Adderall? (Basically, Im asking does it make the effects of Adderall 'alone' dimish greater?)
 
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I think in theory Welbutrin alone would decrease tolerance to Adderall. Though taken together and with a steady state of the drug (Wellbutrin), I'd have to say the increase in your body's noradrenaline would likely bind with a higher affinity, or even push out the Adderall somehow.

But even this is dose dependant, as large dose of Strattera taken abruptly can sky rocket your tweak, where as (from my personal experience) a steady state level of Strattera will greatly deaden the experience.

According to:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2005.03598.x

And based on my personal experiences/feelings, Strattera, (a NARI) is certainly lowering my tolerance to amphetamines; albeit not very fast.
 
^^^
wellbutrin definatly increases tolerance to other dopaminergic drugs.

if tolerance is really down regulation of receptor sites and down regulation occurs because of excess dopamine, then why would you think that a drug that increases dopamine like wellbutrin would lower tolerance?

read the thread pls
 
tiger-bunny said:
^^^
wellbutrin definatly increases tolerance to other dopaminergic drugs.

if tolerance is really down regulation of receptor sites and down regulation occurs because of excess dopamine, then why would you think that a drug that increases dopamine like wellbutrin would lower tolerance?

read the thread pls


Yea, because Im prescribed 20mg Adderall which I take maybe 3 times a week. And Wellbutrin XL 150mg. I take that every other day that Im not the Adderall.

Ever since my doctor added Wellbutrin, Ive noticed that Adderall doesnt work as effectively when I do take it. Even though I dont take both the same day. I guess its because Wellbutrin is still technically in my system a day or two later...

Do you u agree/see what Im saying, Tiger-Bunny?
 
However, its also worth noting that Wellbutrin is strictly a Dopamine/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. It does not have any releasing component to it - - as Adderall/amphetamines do....
Wellbutrin only prevents the reuptake.
 
ya i see what your saying, the whole thing is that by increasing the ammount of dopamine at the receptor sites, either by releasing it or by blocking reuptake, you will cause down regulation of the dopamine receptors. it occurs over time, so it makes sense that your adderal would become less effective more quickly since your doctor added wellbutrin. the more often the dopamine levels are raised, the faster tolerance will build.
 
down regulation does not occur because of the mechanism that meth or any other amphetamine uses, it occurs because there is excess dopamine at the receptor sites, it really dosnt matter how the dopamine gets there.
 
I can't really comment on Dopamine receptor down-regulation from amphetamine use, which is why I retracted my post. Seems though you read it and responded in the few minutes it took me to delete it.

Though because amphetamines don't really bind to Dopamine receptors, the tolerance to amphetamines is likely more related to Adrenergic receptor density.

So, I see your point, and it seems quite valid in terms of Dopamine receptor density. But I wonder how much that really matters in the grand scheme of Adrenal down-regulation. Seeing as, there is some evidence that claims excess noradrenaline from NET inhibition up-regulates Adrenergic receptors.

tiger-bunny said:
^^^
wellbutrin definatly increases tolerance to other dopaminergic drugs.

if tolerance is really down regulation of receptor sites and down regulation occurs because of excess dopamine, then why would you think that a drug that increases dopamine like wellbutrin would lower tolerance?

read the thread pls

But yeah, seriously, maybe because it has the ability to up-regulate adrenal receptors?
 
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to be honest, i know little about tolerance when it comes to adrenaline.
i would be suprised to find out that something could cause upregulation without reducing the ammount of adrenaline though, as that would be quite counter intuitive to my understanding of how and why down regulation occurs.
 
ok, so does any of this really work? haha, i read it all and it's so much to take in. any suggested combo of otc products? thanks.
 
Is this pharmacology of this questionable?

It seems that this thread has generated some interest and discussion on other sites. Of particular interest was the following post:

This is the first that I have heard that NMDA receptors play any rols in amphetamine's pharmacology. If I remember correctly, amphetamine doesn't even work via ion-channels, but through a protein-kinase enzyme that phosphorylates an intracellular portion of the dopamine transport protein, inducing reverse uptake.

Now, I suppose that the author may be referring to the action that dopamine has on the postsynaptic neuron, but blocking the NMDA receptor is not going to fix that, because this would reduce activity in that neuron, which is the opposite of what you're trying to do by using amphetamines.

Also, I do not know if magnesium is an NMDA antagonist in high doses, but NMDA antagonists produce some very noticeable effects...NMDA antagonism is responsible for the effects of the dissociative anaesthetics: ketamine, PCP, and dextromethorphan. Dissociative anaesthesia is a fairly intense form of hallucination in which the subject feels as though his mind has been dissociated from his body, similar to an out of body experience.

One interesting side-note, though, is that NMDA antagonists appear to help with Alzheimer's disease, although I'm not sure how. They are sometimes prescribed along with cholinesterase inhibitors (which slow the breakdown of acetylcholine, a chemical involved in memory) to slow the progression of the disease.

From: http://www.addforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9575.html

Any comments about what this author is suggesting regarding NMDA receptors not playing any role in amphetamine pharmacology - and that using an NMDA antagonist would in fact reduce activity in the neuron?

Forgive my very basic understanding at this stage but is it because the suggested methods in this thread are appropriate partial NMDA antagonists, rather than full NMDA antagonists?

Cheers

Alex
 
the magnesium i just got came from my local GNC store.
its 250mg complex form. its magnesium as magnesium oxide and magnesium
gluconate. other ingredients is cellulose,titanium dioxide,vegetable acetoglycerides.

will this work fine? i cant seems to find magnesium glycinate and carbonate:)
 
eu4ia said:
will this work fine? i cant seems to find magnesium glycinate and carbonate:)

Pretty sure magnesium glycinate is the same as chelated magnesium.
 
DaG said:
...And sorry for the length of the post - but I just wanted to write down everything I researched during last few days (I skipped PubMed abstracts).
Take care.

Sorry for the length of the post, you just wanted to write down everything you researched the last few days? Don't you mean to say, "And sorry for the length of the post - but i just wanted to type until I crashed and died of exhaustion from all the ampthetamines that I'm currently twacked the fuck out my of skull in that "ampheta-goodness"..." ? :! 88) 8o %) :D =D :|:( ....:\ LOL..(if you get what I mean with the specific ordering of the faces, along with the grin ABOUT the series of faces i wrote there...it's a "mysterious encrpyted messages"! heh, joking. It's an illustration of each stage of the meth high. I forgot the regular smilie face though :) . Oh and i forgot the mad/raged one too :X . I should just stop there ,because if I keep it up, I'll have to write about typing about each of the faces that you can put up.

Anyways, THANK YOU for the very in depth, thorough, organized, and informative post. This is without a doubt one of "those posts" to KEEP on this site (up on the sticky-posts or something) for the whole lifespan of this site. And to think I actually thought I was helping myself/"protecting my bones", when I would take calcium suppliment vitamins when i was a tweaker back in the day. God i feel so fucking stupid. Well more like "jesus christ I'm so glad and lucky that I wasn't on meth (daily) any longer then that HORRIBLE "run" of 14 months on that SHIT
I'm also glad you put that little bit about taking magnesium..aside from even using amphetamines. I don't use that crap anymore. I've been non-completely-fucking-delirious, aka sober, for about 5 years! But I have "dabbled" with it..just a handful of times during these last 5 years. That's like once a year. And each time I did it (I'm nowadays completely fucking finished even thinking about that bullshit...well aside from the occasional thought about how terrible and destructive it is)....<Mind you I've generally been talking from a point of view to if the user in question was a TWEAKER aka "a daily user"(more like a "every hour"...or even more, depending on method of ingestion.)..And yeah my own personal biased against the drug is all over the place in this post (duh)...but that doesn't make anything necesarily untrue, (once again) IMO. Oh, and I'm also talking about the negetive effects, usage, etc, from a very "broad"/"general" point of view.
What do I personally think then? I think it's actually "completely safe"(as safe as safe can be), in my book. BUT on when you know your source and use it responsibly and in moderation. You know, just a fun day/night(/the next day since you didn't sleep :) ...kiiding, it's best if you actually get sleep every single time..otherwise you run more of a risk of becomming addicted and being dubbed a tweaker rat fink fuck...a little sniveling weasle....a snake in the grass....strait up psychotic/fucking insaine. Moderation is of course ALWAYS the key; with every drug. But especially ones that are so extremely addictive as meth/ampthetamines/stimulants are...being on my "top 3" list of "overall worst drugs for you to do", meth/ampthetamines are tied in 2nd place with crack...."oddly" enough with Datura(and OTC drugs of the like...or any deleriant) at the top #1 spot. There's a difference between tripping and being in a state a pure delerium...where you don't even know if you are tripping, even though your dead grandmother is crawling up your leg, she looks 100% real, and you can feel her crawling up you, you can smell her...it's all "real"...people have reported (like a group of people that all took datura together...and more then just one group of people have "done this") passing around an imaginary joint and getting high off it..accept in reality there was no joint or anything even in their hands in the first place....or if there was/happens to be anything in one's hands, it would be more along the lines of "dude when I woke up the next day and the trip was over, I was in the bathroom and noticed that the bar of soap in teh shower had a big bite mark taken out of it." (>>>>>sober trip sitter: "That's because you thought the soap was a block of cheddar cheese..and you actually thought you were tasting and seeing/smelling cheese." In my language/way of speaking/thinking, REAL tripping is when you take any psychedelic...deleriants, albiet technically yes they may be psychedelic (the effects), it just does not belong in family by any means....fuck that shit..but again this is all my opinion. Don't be fooled though..i know what i'm talking about here. If you wanna go huff a can of gas or something, be my guest, but don't type into your steven hawkings'-llike computer (when you are practically a vegtable), that you weren't warned. :\ :|
Anyways I'm going to wrap this post up here now...I've spent like over 30minutes typing it out....probably even longer then that...and I don't even use meth! Oh, AND I'm really stoned! Ha. I just can't get enough fo myself at times. I'm going to shut the fuck up now. lol. As long as this post helps at least even just one single random non-member of BL that was just browsing this site once because they accidently stumbled upon it when searching for something about meth, somehow found this post, read it, and it helped them out (however the hell) in a positive way...then I'm satisfied. :)
Peace out
-DM
*EDIT* - there's nothing really wrong imo (safety wise and in general) with using quality meth/amps/stims in moderation (accurately dosing each time as well) as a tool. You know like if you have an essay you have to write up that is due the next day in the morning, so you pull an "all-nighter" by doing just the right amount of meth(stim), and not getting TOO much of the euphoric effects or getting too "speedy", so that you could actually concentrate...Another situational example is if one simple liked to use it in moderation, for fun, every now and then. And of course it also depends on route of administration...but (for the trazillionth time) this is all my own personal opinion. While we're on the personal opinion boat, I'd like to again mention how shitty meth is, and that it is literally like a poison. Except you feel good the whole time you're dying....lol, right..l.like you could ever feel good the whole time you used meth/amp. Even the most hardcore users that shoot up multiple times daily eventually end up in rehab because even then end up hating it and thinking, in their case being (in a way) forced to hate it and think it sucks...afterall, humans generally are more into things that please them vs. things that drive them insaine, hurt them physically, emotionally, financially, socially, ........god and that's if you don't end up dying from the shit and/or the lifestyle that inevitably ends up commingly along with it.
Jesus christ that was just supposed to be a short like edit message. Oh yeah, I forgot, I took a single serving packing of caffine pillls this morning to help me study since i couldnt sleep after i woke up at around 4 in the morning anyways...and if there is a person who really doesnt "tolerate"/like/put up with caffiene and it's shitty side effects, that person would be me. However drinking the occasional cup of tea is much different, nice and smooth because of the other alkaloids in the tea...plus i get tea with specifically low levels of NATURAL caffiene. I have to smoke my brains out with pot to override any side effects from these caffiene pills and feel more relaxed...luckily i also got a script for ativan. :)
OK, FINALLY...."Peace man"(or you can all go f#ck yourselvs) :p jk...bluelighters unite! Oh yeah when you go and buy lighters at the store, ALWAYS make sure to get a blue one in support of being a bluelighter...every 80cents go to the starving children...the other 20 percent of each dollar goes to our christian organization..i mean, we gotta pay for these commercials, the employees (even though they are supposed to be "rightious"aka christian VOLENTTEERS ..in the name of jesus of course), along with getting filthy rich off a stunt like this. Anything to make a buck you know? Religions weren't just made for spiritual salvation. Didn't you know that? Idiot. :\
 
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^you could always NOT read it if NOT using the tab key bothers you that much. idiot.
 
it doesn't bother me, it makes it hard to read, which I actually wanted to do. indentations are there because the average human mind has a short attention span, and without blank spaces in between the words, nobody would be able to read hundreds of word after word without respite.

chill out man i wasn't criticizing you, could you please indent your shit next time?
 
DexterMeth said:
^you could always NOT read it if NOT using the tab key bothers you that much. idiot.

How about a little civility? The point of posting a thread is for other people to read it. "Don't read it if you don't like it" isn't some great catch-all for defending poorly written or formatted posts.

There's no reason to be a dick- it wasn't as if he was rude about it.
 
Common (or not, as the case may be) sense sez: In order for posts to a community to be useful in a contributory sense, they must be easily accessible and interpretible. Wall 'o' text syndrome is counterproductive toward this cause ;p !
 
whats a brand name or type of magnesium supplement i could go purchase from my local drugstore. only magnesium supps at my house are laxatives
 
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