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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Thinking of trying kratom

nuttynutskin

Bluelighter
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
10,681
Thinking of trying kratom tomorrow... Need some advice. I know a little about it but not very much. I'll probably just get the powder from a convenience store or head shop but I have no idea about different strains, potency and how much to take.
 
Anyone know what a "safe" dosage is? I'm already at 6 grams a day. Also wondering if I should be worried about any hepatoxicity. My liver has been through a bit.
 
6 grams?

Just about to write that my first timer, headshop bought Kratom, when the aim was to nullify the pain from a dental procedure. The dosage I took 1/2 of the recommended dosage probably 2.5 grams had me floored from naussea.

But if your Kratom is about as good you have a better stomach for it then I back then. Watch out for that naussea though !

The liver issue is the risk you take, have an liver test before and after and report back.

What has your liver been through
NuttyNutskin?
 
I wanna see these studies about hepatotoxicity

There are a few case reports out there. Check out this for example https://livertox.niddk.nih.gov/Home/ReferenceCases/kratom

Literature reports about mitragynine toxicity in humans are rare, even if in recent years clinical cases are increasing. Only two papers reported cases of hepatotoxicity following kratom consumption; the first one was published by Kapp et al. in 2011 involving a 25-year-old man, the second one was described by Dorman et al. in 2015, involving a 58 year old man.

Although in both cases the available data were significantly suggestive of kratom induced hepatotoxicity, the authors of both studies due to the lack of scientific data on the toxicity of kratom in humans, were cautious in confirming unequivocally this association; in the first case the physicians could not directly correlate the onset of acute liver disease with the intake of kratom, taking into account that the effects of the substances contained in M. speciosa extract (alkaloids, saponins, flavonoids, etc.) have not yet been fully investigated making the correlation between the state of the liver and the intake of these preparations very difficult, whereas in the second case report, the authors defined idiosyncratic the onset of liver complications but evaluated as ?convincing? its association with the intake of kratom. However, it still remains to be established if the onset of liver complications could be attributable to kratom alkaloids, extract-production byproducts, or other contaminants
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849036/
 
Can anyone tell me is there much of a peak dosage? I've been taking it every day and it seems like my tolerance just keeps going higher.
 
Hey Nutty! The issue with Kratom (Mitragynine Speciosa [sp?]) is that it is currently unregulated. I know you're probably aware of most of this stuff, but we'll go through it anyway. We're dealing with plant material, so even if you are going through the same vendor from the same crop, you still can experience fluctuation in potency. If you're going through multiple suppliers, this issue is exacerbated. This makes it very difficult to tell someone what the "correct" dosage might be.

I feel for you Nutty and I want to be totally straight up. Mitragynine, which if I'm not mistaken is the primary psychoactive compound found in Kratom, is an Opioid agonist. So, this pretty much means all of the potentially negative shit that you might expect. You can become addicted, dependent and experience withdrawal. All experiences are relative, but I had a personal case in my PM's a couple months ago where a peer felt that his Kratom withdrawal was different, yet almost as severe as withdrawal from Oxycodone.

I have no judgement whatsoever, but I don't want people to make this mistake. I'd venture to say that the majority of Kratom users are unaware that it is in fact a full Opioid-agonist. Hence, you will sometimes see threads here or on Reddit for instance, that refer to Kratom as a "wonder drug" that helped them get "clean". "Clean" is relative and of little consequence to me personally. I am in favor of whatever makes one happy without harming those around them. Some folks will prefer getting their drugs in the mail as opposed to meeting a dealer. To each his own, but the reality of it is, you will experience withdrawal if you quit abruptly or you have issues with supply.

Nutty, I would definitely stop escalating the dosage if you can at all manage :( I don't want you to keep escalating and get to that point where you no longer receive any benefit from the drug aside from withdrawal symptom mitigation. This is pretty normal stuff and the problem is that folks can get their hands on a shit ton of this stuff for cheap. I am a compulsive drug user and I cannot keep Alcohol in my house and if drugs are begun, the drugs will be finished. This may not be you, but as a former Heroin addict, I could not handle a giant bag of Opioid under my roof.
 
Thanks for the response... That's interesting, I thought kratom was only a partial agonist for some reason. I know it's addictive, I was just wondering what a moderately high dosage would be considered I guess. According to Erowid 8-15 is a strong dosage so I guess I'm up there. I'll probably cap it off at 10 grams per day (5 grams twice a day). I don't really care if I'm a bit addicted at the moment because I was taken off my kpin and was forced to stop drinking at about the same time, but I don't want to go too high as far as dosage.
 
Anyone know what a "safe" dosage is? I'm already at 6 grams a day. Also wondering if I should be worried about any hepatoxicity. My liver has been through a bit.

It can't be too hepatoxic, as I have cirrhosis caused mostly from decades of hepC, helped along by drinking, taking megadoses of Tylenol in Vicodin and Oxycodone, and it hasn't hurt my liver. I did get rid of the hepC with the new treatment a couple of years ago, and no longer drink or take pills with Tylenol in them, but I've taken a substantial amount of kratom over the last couple of years and my tests are perfect. Because my liver's still cirrhotic, they test me every 6 months and they're better now than they've ever been.

I probably would try to hold the line at 10 grams or so, though, and take 'drug holidays' from it. I just ran out a couple of days ago (didn't order in time and used the last quicker than I should have) and expected severe withdrawals. Have been pleasantly surprised--one day of pretty "unwell" feelings and now, Day 2, just feel a little edgy. No real physical symptoms, although insomnia is my curse and I probably won't sleep tonight. But much easier than I was expecting. I have some coming but am going to try not taking it daily this time. It really helps to get me up and out the door. Fortunately it's been snowing here and I haven't had to go anywhere anyway.
 
Thanks for the response... Where in the PNW? I'm in Oregon and we've also been snowed in as well. lol
 
Using kratom to get "high" doesn't work for long; for me anyway.
I dose 2 gr throughout the day not exceeding 10 gr. Usage is mainly for pain management (eerrrrrhhhhnmmm- dietary fiber) and after 2 years this seems to still be effective. Too much is too much.
Tolerance builds (as with anything we want) quickly but dosing to get to point B may be a little unrealistic, IMO.
 
Can you explain what you mean? I seem to be able to stay at 10-11 grams per day.

I've heard both claims: some say tolerance builds fast others say they've been able to use the same dose for years without issue. Guess it's highly individual and might also depend on how and why the person is using kratom.

Fortunately I fall into the camp that doesn't experience much tolerance development. Once I find a good daily dosage it seems to continue to work indefinitely.
 
Can you explain what you mean? I seem to be able to stay at 10-11 grams per day.
By "point B" it was a ref to getting a great "buzz".
been on it for 2 years about and my dosage is 3 gr in the AM (two doses an hour apart) and 2 gr every so often. Been steady there. Works fine
If we feind for that opiate effect we may try to consume more to reach this effect (point B). This is (IMO) unrealistic as the more one uses seems the less return and thence the tolerance build and possible other unwanted outcome(s) (don't know what these neg effects may be as it's all fairly new in the west and I do not push the dose). If this is not the case... forget about it: My bad.
We are at the same dosage daily. :)
 
Oh ok, I get what you're saying. My tolerance went up pretty quickly from like 6mgs per day to the 10 or 11 now, but it seems to have plateaued I think.
 
..didn't get me high for that long and the re-dosing only works on an empty stomach i think. Unpractical compound for me.. wil not try again. Stomach issues i get from it also, little nausea at times. Even threw away what i has so i would not be tempted.. brr.
 
Yeah a little cereal or even some milk before ingesting can help. Won't effect the outcome, IMO.
To previous post my dosage stays the same as that dragon can only be controlled through cunning and power of mind. I dose for pain relief and anxiety. It works (well for me) and it has replaced death in my life (well... at least from a phram and/or pressed product).
I am not a great fan of ingesting much without food... except maybe pills but then if I am there I am not hungry anyway.
Kratom and food do well together, IMO (although maybe dose a little sooner but affects last longer) and I do not recommend anyone to ingest this (kratom) on an empty stomach. JMO
One
 
I tried Vietnamese Kratom for the first time for my back pain. It did not help at all and gave me a terrible headache and I felt terrible all over. I took a whole teaspoon 3 days ago. I just tried 1/2 teaspoon 30 minutes ago along with aspirin. I hope it works. I'm really trying to get off or cut down on my oxycodone. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Two hours later. Nauseous and shaky and no pain relief. No headaches because I took aspirin with it this time. I also took Pepto Bismal but it still made me sick at my stomach. I guess kratom, unfortunately, is not for me, unless maybe a different kind of kratom may work. Any suggestions?

Four hours later. Still shaky. Blood pressure high. Chest tight and feel like throat is closing, and depression setting in. No more kratom for me.

FWIW, I'm 65, and after my bad experience, would advise anyone my age or older, to start kratom with very small doses.
 
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