Hi everyone. I'm a writer who is trying to write a character going through cold turkey heroin detox in a strange environment. I have done some research into what detox entails, but I have some very specific questions relating to the situation my character is in. Would anybody be willing to share your experiences and answer some questions? I'd be most appreciative.
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Writer Looking for Info on Heroin Detox Process
- Thread starter AgnesCat
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speedballs_over
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Hi - You've come to a good place for your research. You'll find a lot of what you're looking for is already here. Look into the recovery forums, the mega threads on heroin and other opioids (fentanyl is a hot topic these days - unfortunately) in Other Drugs forum (here), the sticky post at the top of this forum, "Should I try Heroin...", is likely going to give you hours of reading and note taking.
Poke around and you'll find more than enough to fill a few volumes, imo. I'm not sure you'll get too many people who want to type out their story here, but if you wish PM me and I'll give you some personal, no bullshit history of the slide into addiction, I did not start with pills. I started with heroin and have been in treatment with methadone (four years) then buprenorphine (Subutex / Suboxone) (another decade) but still relapse occasionally - just this past week in the east of the US where some fentanyl laced stuff, and some pure fentanyl dope - no heroin - nearly killed me several times. I've been fighting this a long time.
I am an IV user, typical in many respects although typical is not a good term for those suffering addiction - we come from every segment of society.
Have a poke around the various forums and you'll find there's already more than you need right here.
Welcome to Bluelight and best of wishes with you're writing. I'm sure you'd find people competent and willing to look over sections of your work for accuracy, etc... if you desire.
Try not to post questions - your ? above is fine and a good one and helped me give you this advice - I mean more specific detailed questions about experiences until you've searched this forum in full for answers to those questions - most plausible questions and myths are discussed several times over.
One thing many of us heroin users dislike intensely is the writing of authors who misrepresent heroin use, abuse, recovery from addiction, etc... b/c they haven't done exactly what you are asking - so I applaud you for coming here. I'm referring to the "Pulp Fiction" type of bullshit that is just plain wrong in it's portrayal of many things - from heroin acquisition, what heroin typically looks like and an OD and reversal thereof. Perhaps that was good entertainment for those who haven't been there, but it's terrible for those of us who have to see it portrayed as it was there.
An author who writes eloquently and informed about heroin is Dr. Carl Hart, though he focuses on the drug war and incarceration more than use. There's a good book I stumbled across years ago that discusses real cases and some unique U.S: approaches to treatment in the late 1940s - 60s, "The Narcotic Farm". It's an interesting, informative read.
Kicking dope is a unique experience for many but there are common threads to it.
Visit a needle exchange if you can and talk to the people that run it to see if you can help out a bit for a while and you'll learn more than you could on most forums.
edit: fix grammar and add info.Last edited:
Sertürner
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Same thing as speedballs, I don't want to post my full story but I'll be more than happy to share it with you via PM. Been through treatment 7 times, was on sub maintenance, finally off all opioids except kratom. Just ask and you shall receive here on BL!I'm not trying to get you to try not to research this, but you'll never understand without going through it and I hope you don't. There's many factors to it including the physical symptoms, but it's really the anxiety of the ever building withdrawals and just wanting it to end once it begins can be the worst. The endless thought loops of self reassurance, observations in the moment, and expression of fear about the situation. The constant reminders especially jokes or opioid references in media that it can all just go away... Even after hours of waiting by ingesting possibly even just 1 pill.
It's not something easy for anyone... Not those with chronic pain and not those just getting "high."speedballs_over
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Agreed, "Pulp Fiction" on the whole is a very good flick.
tacodue makes a very good set of points. It is something one has to endure to know, and it is different for everyone.
The current media obsession with the opioid epidemic in the U.S. is a sore spot for many of us. Constant reminders of use and being high (the "good times"), shaming images and statements, patronizing the afflicted, bias in the medical community and so much more. We suffer as it is, the media coverage is atrocious and if your goal OP is to correct that I applaud your desire. Success will be elusive.
I'm not going to get into the epidemiology here - whether the situation today is actually a crises of unparalleled proportions is for another day.
The best writers convey well the pain others describe and that they observe but I suppose that's only as good as the descriptions and interpretations thereof.
The New York Times currently has a photo journalist's work published as a slide show "covering" the addiction period of the lives of two women from one town in West Virginia. It left me feeling pissed off - one photo journalist cannot possibly document the cycle of addiction and the images were nothing new and not at all what my situation was like, nor that of many others I know.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/us/west-virginia-opioids.html
I didn't start with an injury or a prescription. Purdue Pharma is not responsible for my addiction in the least, it began in the early/mid days of Oxycontin, before street sales were all that common and prices were low. I used them orally for awhile to try to end my IV habit but failed, of course.
The "epidemic" at the time was methamphetamine
I restate my suggestion to spend time at a needle exchange to get some real exposure - that is as close as I'd suggest one get. You'll need staff sign-off and a good while to earn the trust of most clients but I found it an enlightening experience even after my active (every day) addiction was well controlled. I'd never been homeless and most clients there were and had been for some time. Others were people with every day jobs on their way to work picking up supplies to get them through another day of earning money to stay well.
I still relapse and am lucky to have survived the past week. I have no idea where I'll be at tomorrow with my use but am fortunate to have treatment available and on hand. Taking that medication is the difficult part when picking up bags is easier and faster than getting a burger at the McDonalds down the street from my dealer's place.
That's the life I live 14 years after I started treatment with the best evidence based treatment the U.S. has to offer.
There is no cure. There is no end for many. The longing, the shame, the guilt, the pain, the loss of opportunity... it's all so much.
I can't write my own story - it's too painful - I want to. Not for others. For myself. The story has been told by thousands. Though so much is bullshit it's a difficult subject to break through on with something new, unique and worth the time for others to read.
I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm simply attempting to echo tacodue above, a real solid contributor here, and trying to add to what I believe he is getting at - you have to have been there and we do not wish it on anyone - you'd have to be a sociopath to want someone else to go through it. Not that I take your post as looking for someone to start using just so you can write about it!
The guy who first shot me up was an opportunist extraordinaire. Motherfucker got out of the game long before I did and became a "counselor" at a rehab.
Speedballs,
Thank you so much for your very detailed and informative reply. I will check out Dr. Carl Hart's books and also see if there is a needle exchange in my area. It never would have occurred to me to do such a thing but it's a great idea.
I would love to hear what of your story you're willing to share, and so will PM you tomorrow. I have done some looking around the forum but will definitely do more.
Again, many thanks!I had a chance to read all the replies so far. Just a little about me, so you'll know where I'm coming from:
1) I've never really used a drug in my life, except for a few hits of other people's joints, which had absolutely zero effect on me. I do have my own addictions, though, which I've tried (unsuccessfully) my whole life to kick. I'm NOT comparing them to a serious drug habit, but I do believe that addictions often come from inner pain, and then the cycle of trying to kick them and not being able to just adds shame to the inner pain, basically leading to a vicious cycle of pain. So I can relate to that at least.
2) I started writing this character four years ago and at the time she was NOT a drug addict. That just came to me one day and I felt compelled to add that to her story. It only recently occurred to me the reason I may be doing this. See #3.
3) I lost my little brother eight years ago. His death certificate reads that he died of a heart attack but that the secondary cause was opioid drug use. He had some really terrible things happen to him and our cousin introduced him to the delights of prescription opioids. He mixed these with copious amounts of alcohol on a regular basis. Before he ever took the first pill, his doctor told him that he was pre-diabetic and on the road to a heart attack thanks to overweight and stress. The result of this plus drugs and alcohol was his death at 35.
4) My intention in writing my book was never really to portray addiction one way or another. I am very much interested in portraying all things I write about as accurately as possible. Also, I am tired of all the Mary Sue (and whatever the male version of that is called) main characters in books who are super heroes that can do everything. I want to write someone flawed, who in her pain turned to comfort the only place she could find it. I want to write about her addiction and recovery, and I want to portray it as accurately as I can within the genre that I'm writing.
5) I realize that I could never fully understand the horror of addiction or withdrawal without experiencing it firsthand. But there are millions of works of fiction written by people who have never experienced what they write about, be it Arctic exploration or time travel or being a researcher in a jungle. Ever since I started writing about my character's addiction, I realized that I am somewhat hamstrung by my ignorance. I even tried to return her to the way she was, a non-addict, but I couldn't - - it just became a part of her character and she doesn't exist without it. So I feel I have to continue writing this, even though it is frankly quite hard for me. However, I don't want to just talk out of my ass. I'd like to inform myself and portray my character as accurately as possible.
And, of course, I have no interest in getting people to talk about illegal activities. To be clear, I am most interested in learning about cold turkey withdrawal than anything else. I do have some questions about other things, but what brought me to this forum was wanting very specific information about the withdrawal process.
Sorry for such a long post. I will come back tomorrow and do PM's and read the forum some more.Tl:Dr yet, but pulp fiction is nothing compared to requim for a dream, trainspotting, and the other common ones as far as being a media representation of opioid use. Trainspotting is a bit more metaphorical in it's representation, but really does good in showing the struggle while requim shows how a dependency and things out of ones control can destroy ones life. There's other out there too
Edit: "I can't write my own story - it's too painful - I want to. Not for others. For myself. The story has been told by thousands. Though so much is bullshit it's a difficult subject to break through on with something new, unique and worth the time for others to read." QFT as speedballz hit it on the nose with what I was thinking with my statement. Especially the part of a bag being easier to score than a burger at McDonald's.... I wonder if you live close speed. Anyways back to reading posts.
Also their suggestion to visit a needle exchange is on point.
Edit 2: You'll definitely want to look into how other drugs affect people differently as well as how the addiction differs especially with things lacking a physical craving. Spun is a pretty hard to watch movie about meth use, but is still great. Blueberry (a film involving Ayahuasca use) is an amazing piece not because of its very accurate representation of the experience, but for tying a person's life experience and what they are going through and thinking during the trip is very well done. Fear and loathing is always a classic, but is more about the binge weekend use while maintaining lifestyle. SLC punks is a good one too even though the "LSD" sheet in the sock getting wet trip was total bullshit there is something one could learn about the drug use culture watching it even though there isn't much drug use. There's also Enter The Void, which shows how one gets into use and the reprecussions of living in that lifestyle along with a trippy simulation of being reborn via the Tibetin reincarnation beliefs..... Movies are just one very skewed viewpoint though. I highly recommend discussing it with those in the field, currently dependent, those related, and those recovered to learn the most you canLast edited:Pulp is genius.... Resivoir dogs too... I highly recommend the Hateful Eight and The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus. I watched both last time I took a dose of 25 someone gave me and a cap of 4-aco-dmt as I've never truly combined a psilocybin type compounds with LSD only the parent compound DMT, which as everyone should know they potentiate one another greatly.... Anyways to say the least it was a good powerful trip besides the fact my dog had a small harmless seizure to freak me the fuck out when I couldn't tell if her head was truly bulging or if I was just tripping. Anyways the later is my favorite and is the true last movie performance by Heath Ledger. If you thought his role in the joker was intense you haven't seen nothing. The movie is genius and takes watching a second time to truly understand the story (lol)* behind it.
Anyways sorry for derailing the thread. Back on topic
*You'll get it if you understand the movie
kleinerkiffer
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I think this is more suited for Drug culture
OD -> DC
LucidSDreamr
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stomache pain that is so bad i've gone to the emergency room in an ambulance for it. the worst pain i have ever experienced by far (and i've had back surgery). needless to say i relapsed at the emergency room on dilaudid b/c the doctor and nurses got sick of listening to my screaming for 2 hours straight that they gave me some.
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"Trainspotting" had just about the best exposition of "the Life" I've ever seen in a film. Even though the film was set in a specific place/era (Scotland during the 1980s), the themes & subcultural details are highly recognizable to just about anyone with experience in a present day opiate-abusing subculture (issues related to money, family, fake friends in the drug world & hypocritical friends outside it, the justice system, polydrug abuse, "existential pain", etc.)
Ironically it's the most famous part of the film (the baby on the ceiling) which rang the most false to me...still a fun scene tho
Thanks so much for all the replies. I'm happy that you guys give Trainspotting high marks as it's one of the books I've read (I've seen the movie, too) in my research, and just a really fascinating story overall.
I apologize for not getting back here sooner. I do admit that this is a part of my book I'm bad about procrastinating on, but I do want to do it justice.
I have a specific question I'd like to throw out. How soon do the symptoms of dopesickness come on, and what is the progression like? What would a person feel, and when (as in time after last dose).
In my research, it seems like the answer would not be so cut and dried, but would vary depending on the level of the person's addiction and other factors. So in that case, my question segues into another: What could addiction look like for a 19 year old female of light build around 5'3" tall? She has been addicted two or three years, has alienated her family and friends, and has resorted to prostitution to pay for her habit. What is a realistic level of use for her (how much heroin would she use, how much $ would she spend) and a realistic timeline of onset of withdrawal symptoms?
Thanks in advance.
P.S. I looked online, and needle exchanges are not legal in my state.
LucidSDreamr
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100 to 300 dollars per day.
6 hrs to 24 hrs dependending whether its real heroin or fentanyl.
whos there
Bluelighter
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^pretty much this, location plays a factor too but its definitely in that range. personally im uncomfortable (chills, tears yawning restless) 12 hours after my last dose (heroin) and miserable fullblown withdrawal by the 24 hour mark. even with comfort meds its a far cry from comfortable.
the struggle is real for everyone regardless of substance, addiction is fucking crazy. just the other day i was tripping on acid, depressed as shit cuz i cant stop using. before i even came down fully i was on a mission to get high the next morning, and it wasnt lost on me that i was using drugs to figure out a way out of using drugs. i couldnt figure it out so i kept doing what i do best. it was funny in the saddest kind of way
JessFR
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I have a specific question I'd like to throw out. How soon do the symptoms of dopesickness come on, and what is the progression like? What would a person feel, and when (as in time after last dose).
In my research, it seems like the answer would not be so cut and dried, but would vary depending on the level of the person's addiction and other factors. So in that case, my question segues into another: What could addiction look like for a 19 year old female of light build around 5'3" tall? She has been addicted two or three years, has alienated her family and friends, and has resorted to prostitution to pay for her habit. What is a realistic level of use for her (how much heroin would she use, how much $ would she spend) and a realistic timeline of onset of withdrawal symptoms?
Thanks in advance.
P.S. I looked online, and needle exchanges are not legal in my state.
Progression of withdrawal depends on the specific opioid drug in question, but I can tell you what it's like for heroin.
Progression into withdrawal is very fast. In my experience it never seemed like any time at all between being high and beginning to feel sick.
I spent a year doing nothing but panhandling, and even less reputable stuff for heroin, so I can tell you what it was like for me.
As I said, for me I'd generally have a shot of heroin in the morning at about 6-7am and then go out with a friend of mine to try and make money. Generally I'd feel pretty good until about 1-3pm. Then things would start getting bad fast. In the winter I'd notice that the first symptom of withdrawal for me was suddenly noticing that I was starting to feel really REALLY cold. Heroin makes you feel warm and comfortable, so when you start getting sick it's pretty common to start feeling super cold.
Then my eyes would water and my nose would start running. All this would start happening very fast after I stopped feeling high, rarely much later than 3pm.
Apart from the cold, at first its pretty tolerable. But by around say, 7pm I'd start feeling pretty sick. Finding it impossible to get comfortable. Not so sick I was on the floor throwing up sick. But definitely unfun and uncomfortable.
For me restless leg syndrome was the worst symptom. You can Google it but while it's called restless leg syndrome, for withdrawal it's more restless everything syndrome. It feels like you just can't stay still. Everything feels uncomfortable. Moving helps slightly, but not much.
Usually by 7-9pm I'd have enough money to have another shot. Most IV heroin addicts would probably have more like 3 or 4 shots throughout the day, but I generally had 2 big ones. One morning one night. Maybe a third in the middle of the day if I had enough money.
If you don't get heroin or some other opioid though, withdrawal progresses very quickly. Feeling achey, throwing up, it's just... Fucking... Awful.
Sometimes you read and some doctors will tell you that withdrawal is like a bad case of the flu. Personally I think that's bullshit. You don't get restless leg syndrome from the flu which means you can't sit still and can't get any rest. You don't get insomnia from the flu.
Withdrawel makes it nearly impossible to sleep and rest.
And knowing you're gonna be in Withdrawel if you don't do something to get money, and fast. Fucks with your mind. It's super easy to start telling yourself that getting money is your first priority. And any harm you do to others to get it can be made up for later.
You don't prostitute yourself until you see literally no other choices. In my experience, it's often not (and wasn't for me) that you ever decide to prostitute yourself. It tends to happen because somewhere along the line, the option of trading sex for drugs, or sex for money for drugs gets presented to you, and once you've done it the first time, it's so so much easier to do it again the next time.
When you're in Withdrawel, often you'll feel like you'll do almost anything to make it stop. And the temptation of there being something you can do that will mean you can go and get high inside of an hour can be overpowering.
How much money you spend is going to vary considerably. For me it'd have been well over a couple hundred dollars a day. Basically as much money as I could make.
Every minute, of every day, in service to heroin. You don't pawn all your stuff or steal from friends and family because you don't care about hurting them. You do it because Withdrawel causes you to lie to yourself that you can fix it later. Heroin acts fast, and causes withdrawal fast after the high ends. Which does an insidiously excellent job of training your mind to feel overwhelming panic and dread at the thought of not being able to get more heroin.
Heroin addiction takes over every part of your life through a million small steps and a million small rationalizations. Until one day you wake up and realize, this is your life now. Heroin being the first thing on your mind after you wake up, being the goal of every action taken throughout the day, all day, every day.
Not everyone's experience with heroin addiction is going to be the same. But there are similarities, and this is what it was like for me in a situation similar to what you described for your character.
EDIT: Just a quick comment about the movie trainspotting. While it certainly gets some things right (though I'd say requiem for a dream is better), one thing it gets wrong is describing what heroin feels like. It's nothing like an orgasm. It's more like a much better version of waking up in a nice warm bed half asleep without a worry in the world. A strong sensation of being warm, safe, and just good.
But addiction not because the high is that great, but because the withdrawal is THAT HORRIBLE. Heroin does feel good, but it's withdrawal that makes addicts do the shitty things addicts do.Last edited:
