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Opioids Just found out I got cross-tolerance. Can anyone help?

zagor11

zagor11

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
178
10 months ago I switched cold turkey from 18 mg suboxone to 30 mg oxycodone. Besides depression and anxiety, even today, I never got high or significant pain relief. Today I am at 300 mg. 2 weeks ago I tried to wean off my oxy. I took 60 mg down and it went smooth but when I was getting ready to start the second week the depression hit me so hard. I have pre-existing depression and it was strong enough to make me stop my tapering.

Someone said to switch to methadone but I am scared because methadone is known for higher death rates and I am on 8 mg of klonopin per day since 15 years ago. Also I do not know a thing about methadone.

So my question is can cross-tolerance be stopped? What should I do to get these drugs out of my body? Thanks for any help
 
Have you tried kratom? That is my first suggestion. I have used it to get off both subs and oxy with success, however I usually get left with a kratom addiction, which to me, is harm reduction.

Are you back up to 300 mg of oxy? That is a hefty daily dose, but kratom will help! Also, can you get ahold of gabapentin? Also useful. Same goes for CBD-rich cannabis.

I think you will find amazing advice in the Sober Living section of BL. Perhaps a mod can move this there?
 
Kratom to stop cross-tolerance or to help taper oxy? I used kratom and it doesn't help much. Only green strain helps a bit with depression but overall it is nothing.
 
KraziKat said:
Have you tried kratom? That is my first suggestion. I have used it to get off both subs and oxy with success, however I usually get left with a kratom addiction, which to me, is harm reduction.

Are you back up to 300 mg of oxy? That is a hefty daily dose, but kratom will help! Also, can you get ahold of gabapentin? Also useful. Same goes for CBD-rich cannabis.

I think you will find amazing advice in the Sober Living section of BL. Perhaps a mod can move this there?
Click to expand...

KraziKat long time no see here in OD!
 
What exactly do you mean with cross tolerance? Either I don't understand what you're saying due to english being not my first language or you might have confused cross tolerance with something else
 
kleinerkiffer said:
What exactly do you mean with cross tolerance? Either I don't understand what you're saying due to english being not my first language or you might have confused cross tolerance with something else
Click to expand...

No this post is just confusing. How much are you taking daily OP? 30mg or 300mg oxycodone?
Cross-tolerance cannot be avoided, it is what it is. If you want the drugs out of you faster you could do a quick taper, but it is uncomfortable and a slow taper is preferred.
 
@kleinerkiffer My English is also a second language. I was on oxycodone and oxycontin much higher doses than I am right now so I switched to suboxone mid last year. Then because I had to. Then in Feb 2018 my doctor put me on 30 mg oxycodone again and we slowly worked our way up hoping to get some significant pain relied and I was hoping to get high but insted I got crippling depression. Someone told since I quit suboxone so sudden it caused cross-tolerance and now that's why I can't get high. Cross-tolerance means that suboxone never left my receptors. Well screw the high I wish I could wean off but the depression is so hard I can't do anything. Weaning off to sub AGAIN may be useless. I am looking into methadone but cannot find enough info. I am on 4 mg klonopin and the doctor says its too much to get methadone with it.
 
Its 300. Slow taper feeds my depression and just isn't working. I don't see how I could get the drugs out of me faster too cuz its a high dose. Maybe methadone despite klonopin usage.
 
There is no way to make the drug leave your system faster, you will have to let your body clear it out at it's own rate. What you are describing is not cross-tolerance. I'm a little out of it right now so I cant find the right words to describe it correctly but I will give an example. Your tolerance to oxy means that you will have a tolerance to other opioids. Your oxy tolerance will affect your morphine/hydro/heroin tolerance as well it crosses over into those drugs. You cant take 50mg hydro with a 300mg oxy tolerance and expect it to feel new even if you have never taken hydro before.
As for the Suboxone, what happened was that the bupe was still occupying your receptors causing you not to feel the complete dose of the the other opioid you took. This is not cross-tolerance (although bupe is very potent and will increase tolerance if taken consistently), it is the work of a partial agonist blocking your full agonist, and will go away when the bupe has left your system.
 
Mr.Deeds said:
As for the Suboxone, what happened was that the bupe was still occupying your receptors causing you not to feel the complete dose of the the other opioid you took. This is not cross-tolerance (although bupe is very potent and will increase tolerance if taken consistently), it is the work of a partial agonist blocking your full agonist, and will go away when the bupe has left your system.
Click to expand...
But if I understand the OP correctly he stopped the buprenorphine in Febuary 2018 so the bupe should be long gone
Now to get this right:
You took oxycodone for a long time even exceeding 300 mg/day
Then your doctor switched you to buprenorphine (imo not the brightest idea as bupe is only a partial agonist and you had a massive tolerance)
Now your doctor put you on oxycodone again in febuary 2018 going from 30 mg/day up to what you take now, 300 mg/day
But right now tappering the oxycodone leads to massive depression and because of that you consider switching to another opioid
Did I get that right?
 
^^^ that sounds right to me!

Nice job Mr. Deeds!
I was trying to help zagor11 but I couldn't figure out what was happening.
I have no experience with suboxone.
Thank you for your assistance here.
❤️
 
Heheh! I'm glad I am not the only one confused on this situation.

Strike my last post!

We need more information.
 
Mr.Deeds said:
it is the work of a partial agonist blocking your full agonist, and will go away when the bupe has left your system.
Click to expand...
In this case the partial agonist acts as a competetive antagonist, is that the word you were looking for?
 
kleinerkiffer said:
In this case the partial agonist acts as a competetive antagonist, is that the word you were looking for?
Click to expand...

Yes thank you kiffer! I was a little out of it last night and couldn't find the right words for the life of me.
Also I didnt know the OP had stopped subs 10 months ago, I misread that first sentence. It's definitely possible that the bupe just won't touch a 300mg oxy habit.
 
zagor11 said:
10 months ago I switched cold turkey from 18 mg suboxone to 30 mg oxycodone. Besides depression and anxiety, even today, I never got high or significant pain relief. Today I am at 300 mg. 2 weeks ago I tried to wean off my oxy. I took 60 mg down and it went smooth but when I was getting ready to start the second week the depression hit me so hard. I have pre-existing depression and it was strong enough to make me stop my tapering.

Someone said to switch to methadone but I am scared because methadone is known for higher death rates and I am on 8 mg of klonopin per day since 15 years ago. Also I do not know a thing about methadone.

So my question is can cross-tolerance be stopped? What should I do to get these drugs out of my body? Thanks for any help
Click to expand...

No cross tolerance can not be stopped without completely discontinuing the opioids or lowering your dose. You should tapper to get those drugs out of your body. Having Buprenorphine compete with another opioid is not cross tolerance. It sometimes is called the blocking effect.
 
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kleinerkiffer said:
But if I understand the OP correctly he stopped the buprenorphine in Febuary 2018 so the bupe should be long gone
Now to get this right:
You took oxycodone for a long time even exceeding 300 mg/day
Then your doctor switched you to buprenorphine (imo not the brightest idea as bupe is only a partial agonist and you had a massive tolerance)
Now your doctor put you on oxycodone again in febuary 2018 going from 30 mg/day up to what you take now, 300 mg/day
But right now tappering the oxycodone leads to massive depression and because of that you consider switching to another opioid
Did I get that right?
Click to expand...

@kleinerkiffer That is exactly it. Now add that oxycodone does nothing for me. No high and mild pain relief. In February 2018 I jumped from 18 mg sub to 30 mg oxy. I think oxycodone is blocking my antidepressants. Also when I tried to wean off I got a massive depression. I am still in battle with it. Looks like tapering is out of question. I don't know if suboxone or methadone would help any for depression. I fear methadone because I am on 4mg klonopin. My doctor the onw who switched me to oxy is total nuts and I don't trust him.
 
Which antidepressants do you take?
Iirc your switch to bupe didn't work as your COWS score didn't get high enough even though you waited around 2 days?
 
Hi Deeds!! Nice to see you as well! Yes, been kinda laying low round these parts, and lo and behold still shuffling my feet with using and non using, pretty much depending on the day. Trying to be better!

With regard to OP, I would use kratom to try and taper off the oxy. Or at least lower your dose. It can be done.
 
kleinerkiffer said:
Which antidepressants do you take?
Iirc your switch to bupe didn't work as your COWS score didn't get high enough even though you waited around 2 days?
Click to expand...

That's right. It feels as if there is bupe in my body. I was under impression that if you get cross tolerance for a certain drug it stays with you a long time but apparently I was wrong although I have read that it can happen. Since I switched from sub to oxy I feel as if I am taking still suboxone in every freaking way. The no high helps with withdrawal but not when depression hammers me.

I am taking Lexapro and just quit Lithium because I started it a month ago and thought maybe it has something to do with this crazy depression that never hit me before so acute and so strong in my life. It came on top of my regular depression. Also within the last 2 years I tried 1 anti-psychotic for depression, zoloft, paxil and couple more older ones. My depression became regular since I got in touch with drugs. Before then it was very manageable.

@KraziKat It's not the matter of withdrawal at this point for me but rather get depression under control.
 
What you should do is wean down slowly on the klonopin. Also,oxycodone isn't as strong as bupe. I would also recommend methadone, but they'll never give it to you while you're taking 8mg klonopin.
 
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