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Do you like the progression of rc lysergamides?

white55

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
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723
This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot for some time now.

Before AL-LAD and LSZ were released to the general public rc lysergamides weren't though to be realistic.

AL-LAD became very popular and the first batch ran out relatively quickly. LSZ on the other hand never became nearly as popular. It is still at least decent (especially because it was mainly aimed at the UK rc scene which didn't have a large selection of excellent psychedelics) but also quite bland and caused bad body load at higher doses in many people. Despite the huge potecy on paper it was quite weak irl. The first batch was still around when the second batch of AL-LAD appeared almost a year later (in the summer afaik).

Both were banned in the UK by January next year along with some that weren't even available.

AL-LAD continued to be sold elsewhere and more was made regularly. LSZ was sold while it was available but once it ran out it was not made again. Probability due to the low popularity and relatively hard synthesis.

As these two moved out of the UK a third UK legal lysergamide appeared. 1p-lsd. The effects are extremely close to lsd, the blotters were dosed quite accurately, the price wasn't too high and it was mostly legal. It soon became the most popular lysergamide.

After that ald-52, eth-lad and 1p-eth-lad were released. All 3 were excellent. 1a, 1p and lsd were almost identical but many people prefered one of them (ald-52 for me). Eth-lad and 1p-eth-lad were extremely good too. Both in sensory effects and mental depth. Imo they were just as deep as 1a/1p/lsd but the headspace was different. Sensory effects are very stronger than with r1 subs too. They were the most potent lysergamides yet and also had a steep dose response curve. Unfortunately eth-lad/1p-eth-lad produce extremely unpleasant body load in some people. So they never were as popular as the r1 subs. The synthesis was the hardest too with some batches failing with no obvious reason. This meant that they weren't that popular the producers. 1p-eth-lad and eth-lad were basically the same, 1p-eth-lad was made for the UK market because eth-lad was banned before it became available.

The vendor that was the first to make rc lysergamides available to the general public privately tested many more. I can say more than this.

Around the same time another vendor started making ald-52 and 1p-lsd.

So far so good right.

Sadly the first vendor decided to phase out r6 subs and ald-52. This didn't happen overnight but eventually al-lad started to become more and more rare. It was followed by eth-lad and 1p-eth-lad (this one stopped being made quickly after it's introduction and was never made in large amounts). All 3 r6 subs are at the time of writing still available but not as common as they used to be. Despite saying that ald-52 wouldn't be made any more another batch was made recently.

The other vendor never seriously considered making any r6 subs and isn't around anymore.

The first vendor recently released 1b-lsd which is another r1 sub. I haven't tried it but according to most reports it is either very similar to other r1 subs or slightly worse. Potency is a bit lower to. It is aimed at people living in countries where 1a/1p are illegal and at lysergamide fans who want to try as many as they can. Others are imo better off with 1a/1p.

They have released MIPLA too, but since it is an isomer of lsd they are planning to switch to 1p-mipla which should be very similar and better from a legal standpoint. I've not tried this one either but might try 1p-mipla (mipla is illegal here and the effects don't seem worth the minimal risk). According to reports this one is pretty mild and weak.

What I don't understand is why would they focus on 1p and not 1a subs. Obviously I'm biased but I prefer 1a. Are 1p versions much cheaper to make? Do they sell much better? I know about a vendor selling ald-52 and 1p-lsd and 1p-lsd sold much better. After I suggested they use either 1a and 1p lsd or ald-52 and pld-52 (they went with 1a 1p)sales became very similar.

However my biggest complaint is the abandonment of r6 subs which are imo the most magical. The reasons I've heard are either that r6 subs have bad yields or that making them requires working with controlled substances which requires a lab with the proper licenses (and I imagine such labs aren't very thrilled to work in the rc busines).

Could a possible workaround be to make r6 subs of mipla/ecypla /lsb/lsp/..?

Would anyone else love to see many more r6 subs become available?
 
I think that we are very fortunate right now because lysergamides haven't been as easily available since 1968 (when LSD was made illegal).

I've participated in the RC scene and tried most of the molecules you've mentioned even though I've had access to pure clean LSD, and I enjoy them just as much as the classic molecule.

That being said I'd sure like r6 subs as well as r1, but have no practical understanding of what actually drives production ratios. One of the commonly cited reasons are that some substitutions need LSD as a precursor so that yields are diminished. It's possible that great minds may eventually design a synthesis that circumvents this in the future. The real chemists here at Bluelight might be able to be more current on this aspect.
 
You're absolutely right that before AL-LAD, lysergamide RCs seemed like a pipe dream. I remember when AL-LAD made an appearance, I about shit my pants, it was SO exciting! I love AL-LAD, I still have a good bit, and I have even more ETH-LAD and ALD-52. I ordered a few LSZ blotters but they never arrived and they were sold out by the time it came to reship. I've been extremely happy with the lysergamides, it's such an exciting time we live in. I want to get some MIPLA too, just for the sake of trying it. Also, don't forget LSM... it seems that one is the most different, but unfortunately also carries a heavy bodyload and a much higher dose. The effects seem to be compared to LSAs.

To me, ALD-52 is as good as LSD and in some ways slightly better because it's unfailingly smoother (LSD seems more dopaminergic at higher doses which is a good and bad thing). To me they're interchangeable. 1p-LSD isn't quite as good and I haven't tried 1b-LSD (nor will I unless I happen upon it as a gift or something). LSD/ALD is my favorite of the lysergamides I've tried. Followed probably by AL-LAD because that one is quite distinct and unique. But they're all top-tier psychedelics. I really wish someone would make PRO-LAD. I believe there are actually quite a lot of lyseragmides possible so perhaps with better synthing techniques, or because someone just loves psychedelics and wants to make new things available, we'll get to try more in the future. :)
 
You're absolutely right that before AL-LAD, lysergamide RCs seemed like a pipe dream. I remember when AL-LAD made an appearance, I about shit my pants, it was SO exciting! I love AL-LAD, I still have a good bit, and I have even more ETH-LAD and ALD-52. I ordered a few LSZ blotters but they never arrived and they were sold out by the time it came to reship. I've been extremely happy with the lysergamides, it's such an exciting time we live in. I want to get some MIPLA too, just for the sake of trying it. Also, don't forget LSM... it seems that one is the most different, but unfortunately also carries a heavy bodyload and a much higher dose. The effects seem to be compared to LSAs.

To me, ALD-52 is as good as LSD and in some ways slightly better because it's unfailingly smoother (LSD seems more dopaminergic at higher doses which is a good and bad thing). To me they're interchangeable. 1p-LSD isn't quite as good and I haven't tried 1b-LSD (nor will I unless I happen upon it as a gift or something). LSD/ALD is my favorite of the lysergamides I've tried. Followed probably by AL-LAD because that one is quite distinct and unique. But they're all top-tier psychedelics. I really wish someone would make PRO-LAD. I believe there are actually quite a lot of lyseragmides possible so perhaps with better synthing techniques, or because someone just loves psychedelics and wants to make new things available, we'll get to try more in the future. :)
I love the RC scene we're undergoing. Having had a good L supply, its great to compare and contrast. Found 1a to be identical to L, while 1p had more of a "speedy" feeling to it. And AL/ETH are great for the novelty. They. Seem to have their own auras about them. After becoming familiar with these experiences I wrote my Lysergamide Blind Test, I'm actually in the process of doing the test a second time to see if I can replicate results. Dang ole' tolerance ;)
 
That being said I'd sure like r6 subs as well as r1, but have no practical understanding of what actually drives production ratios. One of the commonly cited reasons are that some substitutions need LSD as a precursor so that yields are diminished. It's possible that great minds may eventually design a synthesis that circumvents this in the future. The real chemists here at Bluelight might be able to be more current on this aspect.

Afaik the R6 subs are problematic for two reasons.

Yields are pretty bad, especially with eth-lad... some synths even failed for no apparent reason.

And the synths used involve controlled substances which means cooperation of a licensed lab is required and such labs aren't exactly lining up to get involved in rc production. The one they had before doesn't work with them anymore so they would need to find a new one, break the law or find different synth.

R1 subs have high yields and can be made in house.

This is the explanation I got from one of the people behind the source of rc lysergamides.

You're absolutely right that before AL-LAD, lysergamide RCs seemed like a pipe dream. I remember when AL-LAD made an appearance, I about shit my pants, it was SO exciting! I love AL-LAD, I still have a good bit, and I have even more ETH-LAD and ALD-52. I ordered a few LSZ blotters but they never arrived and they were sold out by the time it came to reship. I've been extremely happy with the lysergamides, it's such an exciting time we live in. I want to get some MIPLA too, just for the sake of trying it. Also, don't forget LSM... it seems that one is the most different, but unfortunately also carries a heavy bodyload and a much higher dose. The effects seem to be compared to LSAs.


To me, ALD-52 is as good as LSD and in some ways slightly better because it's unfailingly smoother (LSD seems more dopaminergic at higher doses which is a good and bad thing). To me they're interchangeable. 1p-LSD isn't quite as good and I haven't tried 1b-LSD (nor will I unless I happen upon it as a gift or something). LSD/ALD is my favorite of the lysergamides I've tried. Followed probably by AL-LAD because that one is quite distinct and unique. But they're all top-tier psychedelics. I really wish someone would make PRO-LAD. I believe there are actually quite a lot of lyseragmides possible so perhaps with better synthing techniques, or because someone just loves psychedelics and wants to make new things available, we'll get to try more in the future.
I bought a lot of al-lad blotters as soon as the second synth was done. Sadly I don't have any left. Did the same with 1p-eth-lad (chose 1p because I got a better price). Ran out of that too, but still have some eth-lad bought later. For ald-52 I preferred the other source while that was still an option. Never really cared much about 1p-lsd but I admit the difference between ald-52, 1p-lsd and lsd is minor at best. Tbh you didn't miss out much by not trying LSZ unless you are a collector and would like to try all of them. I'm sure you can still find a blotter or two somewhere if you try hard enough. Personally mipla doesn't sound like a huge winner to me and since it is illegal here I'll wait for 1p-mipla and hope to get it at a good price. You're right I left out LSM. I'm not a fan of stuff with lots of bodyload (although I don't get it from other lysergamides including high dose eth-lad) tbh.... maybe if I got a free sample?

For me the R1 subs go ald-52 > lsd > 1p-lsd but the difference is minor. And eth-lad is the best of all especially combined with ald-52.

There are a lot of potential R6 subs, pro-lad is just a small taste. Hopefully we will start seeing them eventually.


I've participated in the RC scene and tried most of the molecules you've mentioned even though I've had access to pure clean LSD, and I enjoy them just as much as the classic molecule.
A huge advantage of rc lysergamides is that anyone can buy a few high quality blotters online but not everyone has access to good lsd.
 
Is AL-LAD still around? It was my first breakthrough experience with psychedelics and highest dose I've taken I guess, I took ~450?g and smoked a lot of cannabis.
 
Man thanks for writing this white55, and for others' contributions as well. This is a great recap of a big chapter in the RC story. I hope it features prominently in the archive for posterity so that this story lives on.

The R6 subs are definitely the most interesting. It's too bad they're so tricky because I too would have loved to test PRO-LAD. Rumours had it that it's inferior to ETH-LAD and LAD, but I still have so much curiosity for it, would love to give it a spin.

I think the R2 and R3 subs like MIPLA, LSZ, and LSM deserve more of a chance from us explorers. I've not tried LSM, but both MIPLA and LSZ feel very promising. Perhaps we just need to understand their character better. I think they could be real overlooked gems. As an example, 5-MeO-DMT was overlooked by many people I reckon, but lately has been surging in popularity.

The R1 subs are mostly cool from a practical standpoint IMO, in terms of getting acids to the masses and ducking around restrictions. They don't seem distinct enough from LSD to be really considered brand new drugs. But LSD is the king, so...

I assumed that the 1P subs were easier to make, or more stable, or higher yields than the 1A subs, but that's just my assumption.

The vendor that was the first to make rc lysergamides available to the general public privately tested many more. I can[sic] say more than this.

Tantalizing. I wish you could say more!



Here's to a future where lysergamides and psychedelics of all kinds are freed from the shackles of prohibition!
 
I showed the person responsible for making them this thread maybe he'll answer.
 
Starting from LSD as a precursor, Shulgin achieved a yield of roughly 38 percent for AL-LAD and ETH-LAD, and just 31 percent for PRO-LAD.

The main issue with making the R6-substituted lysergamides is that replacing the methyl group involves three reaction steps, compared to just one for acylating the R1 position.

This means there is unfortunately relatively little commercial incentive for labs to produce an R6 sub compared to either an R1 sub, or just plain old LSD-25.
 
Shouldn't there always be a demand for R6 sub homologues or LSZ type ones that just can't be satisfied by just making more R1 acyl pro-drugs?

I can live with ALD-52 and it actually does have pleasant kinetics, but I find 1P-LSD to already just be a step backward from acid and have little hope for longer R1 amides except maybe for microdosing.

It's a shame that for different reasons, you run into a dead end so quickly because of synth difficulty / economical reasons and the low tolerance the structure has for meaningful changes (apparently because the dialkylamide has a very peculiar latching effect on some serotonergic receptors and the window is narrow for optimizing this, a la one of the LSZ stereoisomers). Screwing with it too much seems to either drop potency too much or do weird and nasty things like in the case of LSM apparently although i haven't tried it.

It seems like fun to try and come up with other candidates in new and clever ways like LSZ. (But that's something for the fantasy molecular design thread in Neuroscience & Pharmacology which seems like a goldmine in terms of ideas for novel compounds)

It sucks that even ETH-LAD was apparently not deemed economically viable in the long term, although it is still around - not sure if it is still being made. I realize it may be even worse for AL-LAD and maybe i should have stocked up on that one although i still have a little crystal somewhere.

Hopefully they will make IP-LAD, regardless. Just make a smaller batch and increase the price accordingly. I'm sure it will get eaten by the curious and dedicated :p

Also hopefully there will be a new renaissance when bioreactor methods become available to do reactions more easily via engineered yeasts or whatever - ideally making the end-product..

edit: LSZ felt like one of the most crystal clear lysergamides and a bit laser-y whereas with ETH-LAD often I get lo-fi and blur effects but they can be especially beautiful like bokeh can be. I can live with LSZ becoming unavailable, but ETH-LAD and AL-LAD would be an absolute shame to disappear. AL-LAD is so gentle, elegant, goofy and beautiful (although you can still get utterly lost on it).. and ETH-LAD relatively consistently gives me a sort of controlled psycholytic and psychosis-like break while also facilitating a state of unity. Positive desintegration at it's finest!

1P-ETH-LAD and stuff, even if it is easy to do the acylation, seems like one of the most pointless and counterproductive things IMO although not sure if there are places in the world where it would actually be legal where ETH-LAD is not. I don't need all the different 1-amides of the R6 homologues or of LSZ... Am i blas? to dismiss 1-acyl analogues of the others like that?

ETH-LSZ is probably too much to ask isn't it.. lol ;)

I still wonder what makes the fluoro-ETH-LAD synth so tricky and whether it can't be optimized? I had started to look into the synth of a fluoroalkyl radiolabeled analogue of flumazenil and whether it might have an answer but I guess they do that reaction earlier in the process.
Supermarkets do have products they have no margin on but there are other forms of incentive. Or if not, maybe they feel a responsibility to enrich the world as much as possible.

Anyway, I don't even think these lysergamides are legal where I live, technically - or at least the law is a bit ambiguous about the 1-acyls. I guess at least you can make an argument in hypothetical court based on that, but I'm not sure if I would bet my livelihood on it, you know..

I pray that these remain available in general like they deserve to be...
 
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I don't think it's still being made, nor is AL-LAD. Al-LAD has sold out a lot quicker because I think it was more popular. There's still a lot more ETH-LAD that is unsold.

Yeah I'm hoping some enterprising lovers of psychedelics will keep synthing more of them periodically, knowing that other drug nerds will eat 'em up. :)
 
In my experience Al-lad and 1p-lsd both very lack dopaminergic properties of lsd (pleasant and euphory part)

Al-lad was also shorter in duration

1p-lsd exagerate confusing part of lsd a lot, also it seems longer lasting comparison to all.

ald-52 both times I tried it was very weak for visuals and others.

al-lad however was very intresting and even if it lacks euphoric part and shorter in duration it have something special in it.

From all L I would choose lsd and al-lad.

Other was a bit disapointing, especialy "Cali sunshine" aka ald-52 even at higher dosages.
 
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They have slower/weaker pharmacology / pharmacokinetics and a part of the effect does involve downstream dopaminergic effects but it's a bit more complex than that.

I highly doubt that ALD-52 has an actual tendency to be less visual than something like 1P-LSD. The longer the 1-position group gets the slower and smoother but milder the effects normally become and that seems to be true for a lot of other ester pro-drugs too unless it helps them to pass the BBB.
 
Shouldn't there always be a demand for R6 sub homologues or LSZ type ones that just can't be satisfied by just making more R1 acyl pro-drugs?

I can live with ALD-52 and it actually does have pleasant kinetics, but I find 1P-LSD to already just be a step backward from acid and have little hope for longer R1 amides except maybe for microdosing.

It's a shame that for different reasons, you run into a dead end so quickly because of synth difficulty / economical reasons and the low tolerance the structure has for meaningful changes (apparently because the dialkylamide has a very peculiar latching effect on some serotonergic receptors and the window is narrow for optimizing this, a la one of the LSZ stereoisomers). Screwing with it too much seems to either drop potency too much or do weird and nasty things like in the case of LSM apparently although i haven't tried it.

It seems like fun to try and come up with other candidates in new and clever ways like LSZ. (But that's something for the fantasy molecular design thread in Neuroscience & Pharmacology which seems like a goldmine in terms of ideas for novel compounds)

It sucks that even ETH-LAD was apparently not deemed economically viable in the long term, although it is still around - not sure if it is still being made. I realize it may be even worse for AL-LAD and maybe i should have stocked up on that one although i still have a little crystal somewhere.

Hopefully they will make IP-LAD, regardless. Just make a smaller batch and increase the price accordingly. I'm sure it will get eaten by the curious and dedicated :p

Also hopefully there will be a new renaissance when bioreactor methods become available to do reactions more easily via engineered yeasts or whatever - ideally making the end-product..

edit: LSZ felt like one of the most crystal clear lysergamides and a bit laser-y whereas with ETH-LAD often I get lo-fi and blur effects but they can be especially beautiful like bokeh can be. I can live with LSZ becoming unavailable, but ETH-LAD and AL-LAD would be an absolute shame to disappear. AL-LAD is so gentle, elegant, goofy and beautiful (although you can still get utterly lost on it).. and ETH-LAD relatively consistently gives me a sort of controlled psycholytic and psychosis-like break while also facilitating a state of unity. Positive desintegration at it's finest!

1P-ETH-LAD and stuff, even if it is easy to do the acylation, seems like one of the most pointless and counterproductive things IMO although not sure if there are places in the world where it would actually be legal where ETH-LAD is not. I don't need all the different 1-amides of the R6 homologues or of LSZ... Am i blas? to dismiss 1-acyl analogues of the others like that?

ETH-LSZ is probably too much to ask isn't it.. lol ;)

I still wonder what makes the fluoro-ETH-LAD synth so tricky and whether it can't be optimized? I had started to look into the synth of a fluoroalkyl radiolabeled analogue of flumazenil and whether it might have an answer but I guess they do that reaction earlier in the process.
Supermarkets do have products they have no margin on but there are other forms of incentive. Or if not, maybe they feel a responsibility to enrich the world as much as possible.

Anyway, I don't even think these lysergamides are legal where I live, technically - or at least the law is a bit ambiguous about the 1-acyls. I guess at least you can make an argument in hypothetical court based on that, but I'm not sure if I would bet my livelihood on it, you know..

I pray that these remain available in general like they deserve to be...

Not sure about lsz since that was never really popular but R6 subs definitely.

Imo ald-52 is the best currently publicly available r1 sub (lsd included), 1p is a bit worse. Not sure why they decided to continue making 1p-lsd and not 1a-lsd.

There's actually many potential lysergamides, some likely very good. But your right by the economic limit.

Lsz was afaik only optimal in mice an not in humans.

Afaik neither eth nor al lad are being made any more. But just recently a custom synth of ald-52 was made for a certain vendor who then decided not to buy it and it is now for sale in bulk

However both eth and al lad can still be found for now if you want them.

Yeah, I told them the same thing, if the R6 subs are more expensive to make just price them higher. People will still buy them and it's not like price is a huge problem with psychedelics since you can't trip often anyway.

Just imagine a universal replicator for your home - tea, earl gray hot and 200g of 2fluoroethlad :)

1p-eth-lad was made as a fuck you to the UK government. Eth-lad was banned, 1p-lsd wasn't and a hybrid wasn't either. Personally I'd like more 1a versions of all sorts of lysergamides.

ETH-LSZ... eh if I were rich I'd just make every possible permutation and buy off the right politicians so no bans... free sample packs for bl... 10g each maybe?

Everything except LSZ and MIPLA (isomer of lsd) is legal here .
 
Shouldn't there always be a demand for R6 sub homologues or LSZ type ones that just can't be satisfied by just making more R1 acyl pro-drugs?

I mean, there *should* be a demand, but I kind of doubt that the target demographic of "drug nerds wanting to explore as many different psychedelics as possible" is anywhere near as large as the demographic of "people who will pay three times the normal price for plain old LSD-25, as long as you tell them it is quadruple-dipped golden needlefluff acid laced with mescaline recrystallized from Jerry Garcia's kidney stones"
 
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