conversion of ibotenic acid to muscimol

[markosheehan]

hello

I am trying to get rid of the ibotenic acid in amanitia muscaria and I am trying to find a feasible source for the enzyme glutamate decarboxylase. The patent below I have linked mentions rice bran. would this work or does anyone know a better source for glutamate decarboxylase?

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140004084

 

[markosheehan]

certain types of bacteria have it aswell but they are expensive to get and also I have read it is danegerous to work with them not in a lab

 

[sekio]

just heat the ibotenic acid, it loses co2 like THC-COOH to form muscimol

 

[markosheehan]

well from reading the patent it does seem heating removes that much ibotenic acid

"While drying of the fungal tissue has been reported to convert a portion of the ibotenic acid to muscimol, such conversion is incomplete and highly variable according to sample variation and conditions. Indeed, a relatively low conversion rate of only 30% is typical by merely drying fungal tissue, leaving an unacceptably high concentration of ibotenic acid, typically 180 to 1800 ppm.^3,4 A common ibotenic acid to muscimol ratio would be 3:2 in dried specimens⁴, such that the neurotoxin amounts far exceed the GABA analogue. Furthermore, ingesting the dried tissue, which contains the relatively indigestible mushroom cell wall component chitin, would result in adverse physiological effects."

also from looking at the subjective experiences of people injesting these dried mushrooms its clear there is a lot more than muscimol present. I mean the muscle jerking sugests some glutamate agonism is going on . Also I have spoke to people who have injested pure muscimol and they say its different to the mushrooms.

Do you know if using the bacteria Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp bulgaricus and just frementing the filtrate of muscimol and obotenic acid would work in a jar for a while?

 

[sekio]

Do you know if using the bacteria Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp bulgaricus and just frementing the filtrate of muscimol and obotenic acid would work in a jar for a while?

You'd probably make a gigantic mess. Fermentation is not very selective, and at the end point you'd have all sorts of other shit to remove (bacterial metabolites, dead cells, fermentation products like methyl/ethyl alcohol, acetic acid etc).

The best way I've seen to convert ibotenic acid to muscimol is by popping the mushrooms in an oven for a few hours on very low heat.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

My method is to dry them overnight on foil lined baking sheets in the oven, as low as the gas burner can go without going out, taking the time to turn the caps (the most ibotenic acid/muscimol is in the caps, I don't bother with the rest) so they don't sweat and get all soggy.

As for ingestion, tea is a more convenient method. I read a lot of vomiting when using them, but I never have when making tea, simmering them in hot water also adds further heating time, and hopefully, converts more ibotenic acid. I've never had any awful adverse symptoms using this way.