Syrian Rue for kratom withdrawals

[cosmic._.ape]

So I got hooked again, have been consuming over 20 grams of kratom a day for the last year. A problem with the post forced me to make an emergency tappering. I didnt have any meds but unlimited amounts of cannabis (i grow it on my orchard) and a syrian rue extract 25:1 HCL.
I had never tried harmalas before.

I put a small amount (20mg) inside my glass pipe bulb, it melted popped, the vapor is not that bad... but it is caustic and i have been having lots of flems and mucus in my lungs since.
The other way i have been consuming it is by putting a small amount, like twice as much as i put in the pipe, like 40 or 50 mg under my tongue. It is caustic and it made me some ulcers, but it is totally worth it.

Smoke it the effect last 20 or 30 minutes. Sublinguali it lasts about 2 hours. During the time it lasts, it gives a great relief from withdrawals, though. It takes away the restlessness, it melts it away. That horrible resless limbs and trunk... the worst torture from kratom withdrawal, goes away while the effect of the peganum harmala (syrian rue) lasts.
Plus, it lifts the mood, counteracting the dark cloud in the mind that kratom withdrawal brings, that depression.
Just before smoking the extract the first time, i was already in withdrawal, cranky, demotivated, antisocial... syrian rue reversed all that.
Without it, I dont think I could have slept at all for the first 2 days. Thanks to the rue, I could sleep 2 naps of 2 hours each every night.

THe cannabis also helped, of course, but I know by I experience that even if I eat as much excellent quality cannabis extract as I can, even if I eat it until I start feeling a bit nauseous (yes, cannabis is anti emetic but only if you dont over do it) it still wont be enough to completely take the restlessness away. Combined with the syrian rue it is enough though.

I am waiting to received agmatine. I read it is amazingly useful to tapper opiates.

 

[Xorkoth]

That's really interesting. I did try ground up syrian rue when I was withdrawing from opiates once, and I didn't notice it help much but I was being cautious and may have just not had enough. As for agmatine, it helps me generally feel better but it's hard for me to believe it would help that much with opiate withdrawal. I take it every morning as part of my general health stack. Good stuff. Let us know if it helps.

 

[spacejunk]

interesting - i too have taken small amounts of syrian rue in the past for opiate WD, but i onlt had the seeds, not an extract.

i found it was quite effective too - it took some of the edge off the nervous twitching, restlessness and spasms

i think the reason i never explored it too much more was out of concern about the safety of the stuff.
typically when i'm in acute opiate withdrawal, i take numerous drugs that can potentially help ease the discomfort - from GABAergics to arylyclohexamines and any number of other things, and i have no idea if any of those are dangerous in combination with peganum harmala.

perhaps syrian rue could be more effective than a lot of those other drugs anyway? i'd be interested in any other experiences that people have had with it.

i'm also wondering if there is a way you can make your extract safer so that you are not causing harm vaping it or taking it sublingually.

this could be an interesting thread - thanks for starting it, and good luck with the detox. keep up the good work

 

[cosmic._.ape]

Thanks a lot for the encouragement. I am not the first one to report this. Actually, I decided to do it just becasue I read others having success with it:

"I'm really baffled that there seems to be a complete lack of first hand accounts on the merits of utilizing harmalas to manage acute opioid withdrawal symptoms. I first discovered it's powers when I was dependent on kratom a few years ago. I was experimenting with microdoses of powdered banisteriopsis caapi vine, and to my suprise found myself sometimes "forgetting" my kratom doses which I'd normally be brutally reminded of by a running nose, aches and chills. The effects of kratom was not in any way potentiated by the vine, but the delay of the doses would not put me in WD as expected. This benefit of the caapi was duely noted, but no further experiments where undertaken at that time. However, just a quick google search revieled that the attenuating effect of harmalas on opioid (morphine in particular) withdrawal symptomes in rodents were thouroghly documented. Just a quick pick, there is a lot more:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001429990500676X
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320503006477

Fast forward to today, I've used peganum harmala seeds to quickly taper out and withdrawing from a small (about 30 mg/day) 6 month old methadone habit. I use about 5 grams spread out a day (I've made capsules of the ground seeds, about 500 mg per cap) and I'm happy to say it helps alot. No insomnia, no restless legs (or arms!), no temperature fluctations or sweats! It is not as effective on anxiety or overall mood as pregabalin, but still, absolutely no lack of sleep and the complete absence of "restless arms" and other shitty pains when withdrawing from methadone is huge for me! It's been 2 weeks since I dropped the last dose of methadone. I'm completely broke and can't afford any other comfort meds, but I have in my possession more than 1.5 kg of Peganum harmala seeds so I will not run out anytime soon

I experience no psychoactivity from the amount of seed I'm consuming, I just pop the capsules spread out during the day, as soon as I'm beginning to feel cold, achy or restless another capsule halts the WD:s in it's tracks. My P.H seed dose is limited by a bit of upset stomach, but that is about the only side effect I experience.

Anyway, I only wanted to share this because as mentioned earler, I've never ever seen any personal accounts of this, and given it's percieved effectiveness, documented efficiancy, availability and price, it is absolutely baffeling it isn't raved about on forums like this. If I were to rate it it would fall just abit behind pregabalin in efficiancy, but it is quite available, non-addictive and practically free.

I quit using the seeds back in February with out any discomfort. Still a bit plauged by PAWS and my stomach is still not 100%, but I'm happy to say I got off that methadone habit with practically no physical discomfort. I'm happy someone else also got to experience this, it is truly one of the most miracularly effective wd tools in my opinion." http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-718694.html

 

[Mycophile]

I'd try it but I take Lexapro and I'm pretty sure you can't combine Syrian Rue with SSRIs.

Am I correct about that?

Does anything else work for Kratom WD?

 

[Xorkoth]

That's correct, definitely no syrian rue with MAOIs.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

The harmala alkaloids ARE MAOIs, well not all of them, but the widely known ones, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine, harmine, etc. You mean don't consume SSRIs whilst using an MAOI.

The harmala alkaloids with MAOI properties are RIMA type MAOIs (reversible inhibitors, like moclobemide, meaning dietary tyramine and similar sympathomimetics don't have quite the same lethality as they could on an irreversible MAO(a)I like the hydrazines, as it can displace the MAOI in order to allow metabolism of dietary amines, at least, allowing one not to have to plan for a very strict diet, due to being competitive inhibitors, unlike most clinical MAOI drugs, with the primary exception of moclobemide.

But taking an SSRI or other serotonergic agents with an MAOI is asking for it.

 

[Xorkoth]

I meant to say no SSRIs with MAOIsl. Damn alcohol.

 

[cosmic._.ape]

it was very useful but I wish I had more syrian rue extract... I guess 5grams of that extract would have been enough for 5 days, taking 300 mg morning, 300 afternoon and 400 nights.

I spent 5 days with PAWS, sleeping badly, 4 or 5 hour a night, due to restlessness... this despite oral administration of cannabis and agmatine (i have been taking agmatine since last tuesday). Then last friday at last I received my order of kratom... just the day before the seller has told me he already sent a replacement because he assumed the original parcel was lost... GREAT... free kratom on the way

I took my usual dose on friday. Then, on saturday i bought some nigella sativa seeds, black cumin... and it works as expected! I heated up 2 table spoons of seeds for a couple of minutes, I crush them to a powder in a pestle and mortar, drunk them with some water... in 45 minutes and warm calming sensation started in the centre of my beings. Great. Since saturday I have been takin half as much kratom as I used to take before the forced emergency tappering and getting more effects than them.

I currently takin 10grams kratom per day and I plan to continue like until after christmas. After christmas I will start trying a few different herbal suplements and continue this tappering. I have already ordered Ashwagandha (10%whitanides), terminalia arjuna (arjuna), Scutellaria baicalensis (Chinese Skullcap), Anacyclus pyrethrum (Akarkara), Epimedium and tongkat.

After research i know different combinations of those herbs have been used to increase cognitive, physical function and well being. I will carry on taking the nigella seeds. Next herb i try will be ashwaghanda, then arjuna and everyweek i will introduce a new herb on my diet, lets see if they make this tappering easy.

2 weeks ago I was taking 20 grams of kratom per day. Now I am taking just 10. In 6 weeks I will resume the tappering, maybe earlier than that.

 

[Xorkoth]

Nice, I'm glad you've found a way to make it work. Just be careful not to take more than you have decided to take at all, because it will set you back.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Good idea on the Nigella. It's been studied and shown to decrease the withdrawal effects of opioids, and to potentiate opioids. Possibly acting as an enkephalinase inhibitor, although not totally sure on that.

Would suggest though, rather than aqueous processing, to use an edible oil, because the seeds are very oily, and the active constituents might well be terpenoids, or other lipophilic compounds (maybe treat it like oral weed, and make cakes or something. Bet it tastes pretty good in something like home-baked muffins too)