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Thread: Taking Action: Poly-Drug (Ab)Use

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    Taking Action: Poly-Drug (Ab)Use 
    #1
    Hey BL, usually do not post here however it is time for a change. I?m a 22 year old male and am currently struggling with poly-substance use issues.

    I am currently on MMT @150mg daily, However I continue to use a variety of substances including opi?s and benzodiazepines. I have quite the thirst for downers namely heroin and alprazolam.

    I cannot seem to piece a month of continuous sobriety together, My goal is to just consume cannabis and take my methadone as prescribed. But I would like some advice, feedback, just anything on my situation.

    I?ve been to rehab and IOP a few times each. I keep hearing that once I get on the right dose of done? that I will no longer get high. However I?m wary of going up.

    I would like to start going to meetings again, as I do enjoy 12-Step Programs and think it can be a positive thing. I just feel like I won?t be accepted because of past experiences with matienance meds and MMJ.

    I desperately do no want to use narcotics, pills, alcohol, stimulants. So if anyone has any advice on my situation I?m all ears.

    P.S. I?ve been sober before but going out sucks
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    #2
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    If you enjoy meetings and find them helpful, there's no reason you need to share with anyone your use of maintenance meds and cannabis unless it's causing you to be a broke, irresponsible fuckup and it doesn't sound as if that's the case.
    Struggling with addiction? Join us at Sober Living. We can help.
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    #3
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    ^^ Def agree with A, here. The key in recovery is to stop the things causing problems in your life...if something isn't, it prob. can stay. I never got why nicotine was "ok" (when cigs are killers!) but mj was not. I mean, I DO understand..the tobacco industry brings in a lot of money (and I wouldn't doubt they contributed financially to AA at one point, making their products "pushed" in sobriety groups, at least a while back) and most laws regarding drugs have racist beginnings (marijuana was brought in largely by mexicans in the early 1900's and mexicans were "stealing' jobs from white people..so what did they do? take the thing mexicans were known for having and making it illegal therefore allowing police to jail minorities legally..cocaine's illegality has a similar history). It's all about money don't let these people try and tell you it has anything to do with morality,

    I, too, am in MMT and smoke cannabis (and occasionally drink, but not so much lately), though I'm a bit lower on methadone, 80mg. 150mg is a pretty high amount of methadone, I don't think you need to get higher...well, maybe...are you still getting high off heroin or any other opiate? If so, you're not at the right dose bc you're supposed to not feel shit from the heroin if you are. Most people get full blocking effects at 60-80mg..I'd be VERY surprised if you felt anything off of your heroin at 150mg and, if you are, then you're def messing with some very very strong stuff. Once I got to 60mg, any dope I tried to get high off of was a waste of time and money. I want to get high again at times, too, but with my methadone dose I can't so I don't. Not an ideal reason to not use, but thats what works for me and keeps me from getting high for now while I get used to this "sober" life.

    Working out helps me A LOT. You won't believe the endorphin rush you can get from some good cardio, and it helps me feel better and have more energy while on MMT. Multivitamins help me feel good too.

    You can still get "highs" while on methadone, I just suggest the natural ones. Honestly, having my life together and having money for shit I actually want (and not only for things I need) has begun giving me a bit of a natural high too. I get it, I get bored, and I imagine that's a lot of your problem. Drugs always made my boredom go away so I've been trying to find things to fill my time so that I don't get that drug use-inducing boredom (or only have it temporarily). Try to get into some healthier hobbies if you can
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    #4
    Hey Lifee-

    By any chance, have you had your blood tested to see if you're an aborrent metabolizer? Meaning you process opiates quickly.

    I was on 120mgs of methadone a day and was still able to shoot dope and get high.

    I needed to split dose. If not, I was sick every day by 4pm. So you can take either half your dose, or a majority of it in the morning and the rest in the evening.

    It's just a thought.
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    #5
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    Oh yes, I forgot about this condition 10years, and that you have it. I always feared that I, too, would have this problem but I don't seem to.

    I never shot dope, but I snorted about 2-3g a day at the height of my addiction (though my tolerance was around a g a day when i jumped from sub to 'done) and 80mg blocked for me, but I know my experience doesn't speak for everyone.

    I'm sorry you had such a hard go with methadone, 10, that's gotta be frustrating, esp. with everyone saying "it works so well!". Do you have a similar problem with subs?
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    #6
    Bluelighter Rio Fantastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyhlove View Post
    ^^ Def agree with A, here. The key in recovery is to stop the things causing problems in your life...if something isn't, it prob. can stay. I never got why nicotine was "ok" (when cigs are killers!) but mj was not. I mean, I DO understand..the tobacco industry brings in a lot of money (and I wouldn't doubt they contributed financially to AA at one point, making their products "pushed" in sobriety groups, at least a while back) and most laws regarding drugs have racist beginnings (marijuana was brought in largely by mexicans in the early 1900's and mexicans were "stealing' jobs from white people..so what did they do? take the thing mexicans were known for having and making it illegal therefore allowing police to jail minorities legally..cocaine's illegality has a similar history). It's all about money don't let these people try and tell you it has anything to do with morality,

    I, too, am in MMT and smoke cannabis (and occasionally drink, but not so much lately), though I'm a bit lower on methadone, 80mg. 150mg is a pretty high amount of methadone, I don't think you need to get higher...well, maybe...are you still getting high off heroin or any other opiate? If so, you're not at the right dose bc you're supposed to not feel shit from the heroin if you are. Most people get full blocking effects at 60-80mg..I'd be VERY surprised if you felt anything off of your heroin at 150mg and, if you are, then you're def messing with some very very strong stuff. Once I got to 60mg, any dope I tried to get high off of was a waste of time and money. I want to get high again at times, too, but with my methadone dose I can't so I don't. Not an ideal reason to not use, but thats what works for me and keeps me from getting high for now while I get used to this "sober" life.

    Working out helps me A LOT. You won't believe the endorphin rush you can get from some good cardio, and it helps me feel better and have more energy while on MMT. Multivitamins help me feel good too.

    You can still get "highs" while on methadone, I just suggest the natural ones. Honestly, having my life together and having money for shit I actually want (and not only for things I need) has begun giving me a bit of a natural high too. I get it, I get bored, and I imagine that's a lot of your problem. Drugs always made my boredom go away so I've been trying to find things to fill my time so that I don't get that drug use-inducing boredom (or only have it temporarily). Try to get into some healthier hobbies if you can
    Regarding the AA/NA hypocrisy re: caffeine and nicotine - though I agree it seems to be a double standard and an intentional blind spot for them, I can see the logic in that caffeine and nicotine aren't particularly intoxicating and don't cause the kind of significant headspace change that can lead addicts to relapse in the same fashion that alcohol & weed could. However, this category could then be extended to other mild stimulants like modafinil, and then if modafinil is included then why not methylphenidate etc, so it's ridiculous and hypocritical to pretend caffeine and nicotine are exceptional but to illustrate their point - if you've just had a coffee and smoked a cigarette and someone asked if you were sober, how would you reply? Now imagine you've just smoked a bunch of weed and someone asked if you were sober, how would you reply then??
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rio Fantastic View Post
    Regarding the AA/NA hypocrisy re: caffeine and nicotine - though I agree it seems to be a double standard and an intentional blind spot for them, I can see the logic in that caffeine and nicotine aren't particularly intoxicating and don't cause the kind of significant headspace change that can lead addicts to relapse in the same fashion that alcohol & weed could. However, this category could then be extended to other mild stimulants like modafinil, and then if modafinil is included then why not methylphenidate etc, so it's ridiculous and hypocritical to pretend caffeine and nicotine are exceptional but to illustrate their point - if you've just had a coffee and smoked a cigarette and someone asked if you were sober, how would you reply? Now imagine you've just smoked a bunch of weed and someone asked if you were sober, how would you reply then??
    It's not about the head space these drugs create and has more to do with the pathways that are ingrained in the brain which cause addictive behaviors. Per years of research the medical community has found a higher correlation with nicotine and relapse for those in recovery compared with cannabinoids.

    Meanwhile loads of research is being uncovered which actually has proven CBD and even cannabis can lower the rate of cravings. While nicotine has literally zero benefit for people trying to get away from hard drugs or alcohol. The same could be true for heavy caffeine drinkers.

    Somwhow the 12 step community is locked into the idea that the head high cannabis causes is linked with relapse while ignoring the actual science of the addicted brain. A drug that taps into dopamine they way nicotine does that is used 3-24 times per day, causes cancer and heart disease is far more likely to lead to cravings for other similiar drugs.
    Last edited by Prescottdave; 07-11-2018 at 18:26.
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    #8
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    Well no one has ever accused NA/AA of being based in science. It's a self help group that masquerades as medical treatment.
    Addicted? Want to stop? We can help! Come to the sober living forum!
    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/forums/269-Sober-Living
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    #9
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    Truuuuue cj

    Rio, marijuana doesn't put me in a different "head space" anymore than nicotine does. It changes how I sense the world slightly, but so do my nicotine levels (such as, when they're low, the world pisses me the fuck off and I'm much more aggressive). I know everyone is different, but thc doesn't affect me that much really..and if I just smoked weed and didn't have anything else in my system. I'd probably say I was sober too (I know my definition of sober isn't the "official" definition, but if im not all fucked up I consider myself sober...even one beer=sober to me bc it doesn't affect me at all due to my tolerance). To me, smoking cigs makes me want to use more than weed does. Cigs and opes went hand in hand for me (which is why vaping has been so easy to pick up...not using dope makes me not care about cigs anymore). I could also see caffeine being a HUGE trigger to someone who was addicted to speedier drugs than we like, Rio. It all has to do with who's given (whether it be the govt or or AA in this case) the most money.

    Money is everything, Rio. Some guys I really like once said Cash Rules Everything Around Me CREAM GET THE MONEY Dolla Dolla Bill Y'all...
    Last edited by ladyhlove; 07-11-2018 at 23:04.
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    #10
    Bluelighter Rio Fantastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescottdave View Post
    It's not about the head space these drugs create and has more to do with the pathways that are ingrained in the brain which cause addictive behaviors. Per years of research the medical community has found a higher correlation with nicotine and relapse for those in recovery compared with cannabinoids.

    Meanwhile loads of research is being uncovered which actually has proven CBD and even cannabis can lower the rate of cravings. While nicotine has literally zero benefit for people trying to get away from hard drugs or alcohol. The same could be true for heavy caffeine drinkers.

    Somwhow the 12 step community is locked into the idea that the head high cannabis causes is linked with relapse while ignoring the actual science of the addicted brain. A drug that taps into dopamine they way nicotine does that is used 3-24 times per day, causes cancer and heart disease is far more likely to lead to cravings for other similiar drugs.
    Why do you think you enjoy cannabis? It, like all drugs of abuse affect the mesolimbic dopamine system. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I'd really like to see the studies that link nicotine to relapse and link weed to not relapsing.
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    #11
    Bluelighter Rio Fantastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyhlove View Post
    Truuuuue cj

    Rio, marijuana doesn't put me in a different "head space" anymore than nicotine does. It changes how I sense the world slightly, but so do my nicotine levels (such as, when they're low, the world pisses me the fuck off and I'm much more aggressive). I know everyone is different, but thc doesn't affect me that much really..and if I just smoked weed and didn't have anything else in my system. I'd probably say I was sober too (I know my definition of sober isn't the "official" definition, but if im not all fucked up I consider myself sober...even one beer=sober to me bc it doesn't affect me at all due to my tolerance). To me, smoking cigs makes me want to use more than weed does. Cigs and opes went hand in hand for me (which is why vaping has been so easy to pick up...not using dope makes me not care about cigs anymore). I could also see caffeine being a HUGE trigger to someone who was addicted to speedier drugs than we like, Rio. It all has to do with who's given (whether it be the govt or or AA in this case) the most money.

    Money is everything, Rio. Some guys I really like once said Cash Rules Everything Around Me CREAM GET THE MONEY Dolla Dolla Bill Y'all...
    Well, it's all subjective. Can you use weed to get into a state you would describe as "not sober"? Can you do the same with your vape?

    bear in mind I am not defending the "abstinent to everything but alcohol and weed" approach here. Many, many addicts can go on to use alcohol and weed recreationally and be totally fine and you are probably one of them, it just doesn't sit with me right when people try and pretend weed isn't a drug.
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