• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Methylpentynol any experience?

Limpet_Chicken

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
6,323
Anyone out there got much experience with those old-ass sedative-hypnotics based on tertiary alcohols featuring a triple bond, such as methylpentynol. Rather interested in this one, and if the terminal chloride is known (think something akin to the bastard child of methylpentynol and ethchlorvynol). Ethchlorvynol is another attractive target, but methylpentynol especially so due to the simplicity of structure, and the starting materials, MEK, sodium metal, anhydrous ammonia and acetylene...cheap to investigate on an experimental scale certainly), anyone know more about duration of action of this one?

Being a tert. alcohol, is it liable to be one of those hangers-on, as one sees with say, 2-methyl-2-butanol?
 
From a paper: (Schaffarzick, R. W., & Brown, B. J. (1952). The Anticonvulsant Activity and Toxicity of Methylparafynol (Dormison(R)) and Some Other Alcohols. Science, 116(3024), 663–665. doi:10.1126/science.116.3024.663)

NSFW:
yLAkKqt.png


So for anticonvulsant potency, phenobarbital >> 3-ethyl-3-pentanol > meparfynol = 2-me-2-butanol > t-butanol > 3-pentanol > 2-me-2,4-pentanediol >> ethanol.

This does beg the question, who's tried 3-et-3-pentanol?

Also, limpy, as simple as the synthesis of meparfynol would be, working with acetylides is a little bit hairy for me.
 
Well its the transition metal ones that are sketchy as shit. no? not the likes of sodium, lithium or calcium carbide? actually trying with CaC2 is something I have in mind, given it's commercially available, and less fuckaround by far than gassing acetylene into Na solvated with anhydrous NH3. It's the condensing the ammonia that's the bloody nuisance if you ask me. Although it does beg the question, given the initial conditions are rather similar to the Birch-Benkeser reduction tweakers everywhere know and love, if an ethereal suspension of Na, and gassing with dry ammonia wouldn't work.

Since it does indeed solvate alkali metals, at least it does Li, and yes, the Birch-B reduction works when conducted with only gaseous NH3 in an ethereal medium.
 
I think lithium and sodium acetylide are not much better than carbide - addition of water is acidic enough to result in a dangerous melange of free acetylene gas and heat. I think the isolated material is actually friction sensitive contact explosive, certainly transition metal acetylides are. And acetylene itself is not a happy camper as it wants to thermodynamically go downhill to stuff like benzene, in fact, even compressing the stuff is hazardous (agamassan-filled cylinders & special regulators).

Also, carbides do not undergo reactions like acetylides do, otherwise the synthesis would be adding chunks of CaC2 to MEK. In fact, I can envision carbides undergoing double reaction to make a symmetrical product - as each "half" of the carbide is deprotonated and can undergo nucleophilic addition.
6iqa2h3m.png


Also also, I don't think you need ammonia per se, as alkynes can be deprotonated in ethereal solvents too. Maybe add acetylene to hexyllithium solution then work with that?
 
Would probably work, although if I'm going to go for an alternative to ammonia, something like sodamide would be preferable for the deprotonation. Certainly preferable to alkyllithiums, The solvated alkali metal route definitely seems more practical.

lithium acetylide might just be a bit more stable than you think, at least, given the references to a similar carbothermic route as is used to produce CaC2, it specifically mentions it on wikipedia (granted not the best source, but better than none if you are going to use it to point you in the right direction at least), and it mentions heating to 2000 'C, something I very much doubt those transition metal acetylides would tolerate, both copper and silver acetylide are listed as decomposing rather than having a boiling point, and if deliberately made, it's generally with wet chem rather than anything high temperature, as this would cause explosion.
 
if you were using ch3Li as a methylating agent what would ensure that its going to add the methyl across the c=0 group?

whats to say it wont just add the methyl group to one of the carbons in the chain or even at the end of the chain?
 
It'd be far easier to deprotonate the ketonic functionality than an alkyl carbon, forming an intermediate enolate would it not?

In the case of a mixture of reaction products, there is always distillation. Although, I picked this one more as a test candidate, after happening to be doing the right reading at the right time, assuming everything goes to hell in a handbasket, what's to lose? some Li or Na, an order of dry ice, NaOH, ammonium sulfate fertilizer, MEK and one way or the other, acetylene. I'm thinking back to basics here, cheapo industrial-style inasfar as resources go, the aim being to make a process reproducible by others who aren't lucky enough to be able to order alkyllithium reagents etc. Nothing a resourceful scrounger couldn't hope to round up.

Why? partially for fun, and partially to make it more readily reproducible. Something like sodamide or lithium amide was suggested due to it's being far more readily procured by many than alkyllithiums, More amenable to the DIY spirit of the exercise. Hell, it'd be just funny if someone were to recycle their Birch reduction wastes for the lithium or sodium amide=D (sorry, its just a rather amusing mental image, of your prototypical redneck hick Bircher fiending not for scraps of meth but bits of leftover lithium or sodium amide to make something to come down with=D)
 
Also, carbides do not undergo reactions like acetylides do, otherwise the synthesis would be adding chunks of CaC2 to MEK. In fact, I can envision carbides undergoing double reaction to make a symmetrical product - as each "half" of the carbide is deprotonated and can undergo nucleophilic addition.

If this were an issue, TMS-acetylene would be a good solution, if one had access to it. The silane is quite easy to remove with base in methanol.
 
if you were using ch3Li as a methylating agent what would ensure that its going to add the methyl across the c=0 group?

whats to say it wont just add the methyl group to one of the carbons in the chain or even at the end of the chain?

that's just how alkyllithiums work. Same as grignards.
 
if you were using ch3Li as a methylating agent what would ensure that its going to add the methyl across the c=0 group?

whats to say it wont just add the methyl group to one of the carbons in the chain or even at the end of the chain?

Lithium has a very low electronegativity, meaning it easily gives up electrons. So when you stick a lithium atom on an alkyl carbon, that carbon is going to have a significantly higher electron density than normal.

Oxygen, on the other hand, is highly electronegative, and will thus draw away electrons from the carbon it is connected to, creating a partial positive charge. That carbon is thus going to be much more happy to accept electrons than the other carbons along the chain.

So you've got a carbon atom that's looking to offload its excess electron density (a nucleophile) and another carbon that's craving more electron density (an electrophile).

Consequently, the reaction between the alkyllithium and the carbonyl carbon is clearly by far the most energetically favorable one.

As sekio said, it's the same principle as a Grignard reagent: Pump a carbon atom full of electrons with an electropositive substituent, and watch it react with another carbon that is getting deprived of its electron density by a more electronegative substituent.
 
Even if some linear chain extension did take place as a side reaction, presumably nothing that couldn't be fixed either by vacuum distillation assuming there are no azeotropes, which for an old fashioned and short lived drug like this, probably weren't tested for extensively if at all; of course, or else fractional crystallization or column chromatography of the alcohol itself, derivatized as a solid carbamate fr.ex.

And cheap as chips, available starting materials are in any case, the aim, at least to come up with a synthesis reproducible by others, since unlike myself, there will be an awful lot of hobby chemists who have to fund and build their own lab, and whilst not all, some of their reagents and solvents need to be DIY'ed, etc., this, is why he needs first and foremost, to come up with something that can be done in a manner as facile as for example, the synthesis of chlormethiazole from thiamine (bisulfite cleavage, discarding the HIGHLY toxic convulsant nasty pyrimidine fragment, and washing thoroughly and repeatedly before proceeding with the chlorination, as well as vacuum distillation of chlormethiazole base, after the intermediate alcohol is halogenated with SOCl2, or, as he's been meaning to test out, PCl5, as well as use of the Appel reaction, triphenylphosphine/carbon tet as chlorine donor, since although he has a script for the stuff, although not here licensed for the indication, to control his seizures, which it does both well and fast as shit spews from the mouth of Donald Trump during one of his public diarrhea-exchanges, he has a rather enthusiastic liking either for chlormethiazole or bromethiazole, so finding alternate halogenating agents, like CCl4, CBr4, PCl5 and PBr5 to stand in for thionyl halides, which aren't the easiest of reagents to make, what with needing oleum or sulfur trioxide, and difficult to purchase, particularly thionyl bromide, as most places carry SOCl2, but much fewer also carry SOBr2, and I personally, have no shortage either of red phosphorus, of white, if I want it, in multi-kg quantities when speaking of red P, the more routes and procedures, the better, no?)

But for this particular drug, the methylpentynol, MeLi is out. Most clandestine chemists or tinkering hobbyists, even those who could safely handle an organolithium alkyl, would find it very difficult either to purchase or to make themselves. More so than grignards, for sure. How many, out of all the clandestine chemist professionals, and hobbyists put together, could, do you think, simply place an order for some MeLi as a calibrated solution? or if not, both make it themselves, and then keep what they have wrought, rather than have their MeLi burst into flames?

It is not, one can say with certainty, a reagent which lends itself to being scavenged from photo chemicals, fertilizers, pool treatments and removers of foot-fungus. Which, while he's more than happy to switch routes if something more practically facile and useful turns up after doing his best to get the Na or Li-acetylide based route up and running and OTC'ed so far back, it's hobnobbing with chlorobutanol, chloral hydrate and paraldehyde for next-door neighbours, for personal consumption if more expedient, he does need to find, as part of the point of the exercise, a viable route using alkali metal acetylide reagents for the ethynylation. since sodium metal, or lithium are not unobtanium-based reagents generally speaking, especially with the pyrometallurgical process Nurdrage came up with, using 1,4-dioxane to melt the fine dispersion of Na in a Na/MgO aggregate from a magnesiothermic reduction of NaOH or KOH etc. and coagulate the results into useful chunks of metals, with the dioxane itself of course being readily available, if one prepares it from scratch, starting with ethylene glycol and sulfuric acid. It's basically a thermitesque reaction, so not rocket science, but with the potential to bring alkali metal acetylides to the hungry, acetylide-starved masses using alkali metals solvated in anhydrous ammonia (if redneck hicks can make their NH3, since they can't ALL be stealing it off farmers, then so can bees who desire a honey to be supped from parts of the comb less well travelled, by way of oldarse wallbanger GABAergics that went the same way as the dinosaurs, Given it isn't actually OTC as such, but needs to be liquefied from the anhydrous gaseous ammonia using a dry ice/acetone bath after precooling using salted ice/glycol/methylated spirits/H2O mixture to spare on the dry ice, dry ice is orderable online freely enough for it to qualify as 'OTC' for the purposes of the establishment of a facile route to methylpentynol as an exercise in OTC-ing, for the use of others, and for the enjoyment of taking things right back to basics, and turning out something useful and hopefully pretty recreational from the likes of boxes of lawn fertilizer, caustic soda, tanks of acetylene or else generating it from calcium carbide (buyable, or makeable from quicklime and carbon at high temperatures) and H2O (if anybee has problems getting access to H2O, it's probably time for a career change, if they live long enough to do so=D), and sodium metal, MEK, MEK being buyable easily enough, inexpensive, whilst sodium metal if a given bee cannot purchase it, then it isn't unmakeable, and advantageously producible from the magnesiothermic reduction slag, once powdered under argon in a blender, before being added to a flask of dry 1,4-dioxane, or even electrolysis of one stripe or another, on hydroxide, chloride etc. if one has to endure the finnicky-ness of electrolytic routes to alkali metals, rather than a simple if slightly exotic thermite composition, grinding the slag and refluxing under dry dioxane..

And even if one can't order dry ice, it could be made by exhausting inverted CO2 fire extinguishers through fine cloth then compacting it into bricks with blunt force and a mold so as to prevent it's overrapid evaporation and ease the burden of effort the totally OTC-bound chemist must go to in order to condense their anhydrous ammonia, so it's OTC, if filed under OTC-intermediate effort and difficulty/high cost per unit if made with fire extinguishers.

Surely, you can see his reasoning behind the exercise in mind, can you not? both for the enjoyment of being able to achieve the synthesis of an improvement on alcohol as sedative-hypnotic, which compared to ethanol, it pretty much has to bee, let's face it, ethanol is a shite drug, what more can one expect from one that is governmentally sanctioned and profited from=D, starting from bare-bones materials such as any aspirant may achieve production of or obtaining thereof from really simple chemicals that even an american could hope to get OTC, hell, even an englishman such as myself!, Turning fertilizer, paint stripper, bog cleaner and antifreeze, some welding gases etc. into a proper alcohol worthy of consideration for consumption as a recreational, as a comedown-antidote for stimulant users, is part of it, but it's also the spirit of things, it's enjoyable to spend some days working in the back garden, generating the anhydrous NH3, etc., and enjoyable turning caveman-chemistry into actually functional, useful goods that shit on the likes of chloral or chlorobutanol (again, what doesn't!), with the knowledge that those of us who cannot buy OR make OR handle alkyllithium reagents even if they did get any, can still decide they want to try the alcohol in question, and actually go ahead and do so, using chloral hydrate-level resources and skill demands, or at worst, the kind of resources and skills required for a meth cook (not like generation of anhydrous liquid NH3 is new to clandestine chemistry, likewise it's going to have plenty folk already trained enough to handle the use of an alkali metal in liquid ammonia.)

It's just like cooking pizza from scratch, sure, if you've got 20 quid, you can ring for a takeout with all the toppings you want, but if all you have is pepperoni, cheeses, black olives and the flour to make dough, then you've got to make your own, in times of no money (pepperoni and black olives just happens to be the example because it's His favourite pizza=D), but even if one HAS the money to buy a pizza and have it delivered, sometimes, one goes and makes themself a pizza, rolling and kneading the dough themselves, not because they must, but because they like to cook, and they like to cook in more ways than opening a cardboard box and stuffing the result in a microwave for 2 minutes on high. Because they CAN. Because they can do so, and because they'll have fun doing it, without resorting to cheating, like for the spirit of the proposition in question, using alkyllithiums would. That'd be like buying ready-made pizza dough complete with a bag of mozzarella and a jar of pickled olives with pre-cut pepperoni slices, as opposed to making one's own dough, and letting it rise, then baking it.

Yes, in this case, the fundamentals, like NH3 must be made, rather than dial-a-takeout, but there are allowances to be made for the OTC-er, it doesn't have to be strictly speaking something one may just walk up to a shelf in a shop and pick up a tank of, rather, one starts with fertilizer and caustic base, drying over quicklime or more NaOH, and dry ice, ordered or made, that is fair game though, making non-OTCs simply from OTCs.

And hey, it means more chemistry to get one's hands dirty with, which is in LC's book, somewhat of a directly proportional analysis of the fun to be had, plotted into a graph curve. The more, and the more simple one can engineer things such as for others of a less spoilt lab supplies selection to pick from, who CAN'T just go 'oh I want some methyllithium', then the more of a contribution, IMO has been made towards helping drive the vile drug war with all of it's attendant evils and evil-doers, further towards endgame, where it is to bee eventually recognized by ALL as being unwinnable in terms of prohibition. And the more this aim is fostered, the better.

Sure, I might have the pick of my chemical suppliers, but I didn't always. I didn't in my preteen years when starting out as a chemist, so the OTC spirit remains a noble aim to me, and one dear to my heart, even if now, all I need do is contact one of my hook-ups and get me those fancy, luxurious reagents that everybee wants, but not everybee is fortunate enough to bee able to have. I *WAS* that reagent-hungry young bee still earning his wings once. Now, not so, I could probably buy the sodium acetylide for example, but I don't want to buy it, not when I can go through the process of preparing the anhydrous liquid NH3, preparing the sodium metal (which I'll do, despite the fact I have it in bricks, covered in heavy paraffin, then heat-sealed under vacuum in a thick plastic liner, itself placed inside another, outer liner of thick heavy-duty plastic, purged with inert atmosphere and then sealed. But, as with everything, it's going to come from as simple a source, even when other sources and routes are available, as can bee. Not just for my personal fun in the exercise, but for all the other bees without connections, anyone looking to earn his or her wings and know how to use that stinger and to biosynthesize their favourite venom of choice and file off the barb on said sting to make sure they don't rip their insides out for a demonstration of stinging prowess.

For all those who once he was, this is a large part of why.
 
It's just like cooking pizza from scratch, sure, if you've got 20 quid, you can ring for a takeout with all the toppings you want, but if all you have is pepperoni, cheeses, black olives and the flour to make dough, then you've got to make your own, in times of no money (pepperoni and black olives just happens to be the example because it's His favourite pizza=D), but even if one HAS the money to buy a pizza and have it delivered, sometimes, one goes and makes themself a pizza, rolling and kneading the dough themselves, not because they must, but because they like to cook, and they like to cook in more ways than opening a cardboard box and stuffing the result in a microwave for 2 minutes on high. Because they CAN. Because they can do so, and because they'll have fun doing it, without resorting to cheating, like for the spirit of the proposition in question, using alkyllithiums would. That'd be like buying ready-made pizza dough complete with a bag of mozzarella and a jar of pickled olives with pre-cut pepperoni slices, as opposed to making one's own dough, and letting it rise, then baking it.
The groundbreaking work you're doing is beyond my scope. But I am more then willing, curious to try the DIY Limpet's Improvent on Alcohol home chemistry once finished.

Making GHB or doing some acid/ base measurement using red Cabbage extract on my soil. Is where I am at.

Did crack the code for those pizza's, it's an essential. But has to undergo a pyrogenation for the flavor profile. It's tomato's I use the concentrated unsalted canned puree. But I imagine if tomato's aren't OTC in England you could eassily grow you own. Maybe use some artificial lightning if necessary, pizza'sm with tomato's are well worth the electrical costs. :)

When you perfected the DIY pizza dough, send us a recipe of that too. You must be experimenting with diff yeast's, maybe sourdough combinations. A Bolus, sweet pastry resembling a turd. Has to undergo two rising phases and a final one during baking. So pizza dough must be something special regarding this proces I am guessing.
 
Last edited:
The pizza dough was a metaphor, although I have done it from scratch a couple of times before.


Sun-dried tomato paste works really really well on them btw, for actual PIZZA-based pizzas.

And ground breaking work? what ground breaking work, this isn't a new drug. It's an attempt at reinventing an old one, to bring it under the dominion of those with the spirit it takes to want to turn GBL into GHB, because they CAN.

But otherwise, this is definitely more likely to result in a methylpentynol route than a pizza dough recipe.

I can't remember the last time I needed to use anhydrous liquid ammonia to make a pizza. At least not unless the dough was pseudoephedrine=D
This, at least, brings it into the jurisdiction many of the more basic cook-ers would be able to learn, if not already have some familiarity with, with the setup for Birch-Benkeser reductions, using solvated electrons from alkali metals in condensed annie to reduce PSE or ephedrine to methamphetamine, in an atypical application of the reduction in question. But handling liquid NH3 and alkali metals, in combination, basic inert gas technique isn't something I would judge to be out of reach of 'the masses'. Just to require responsible handling. That said, all but the most basic and innocuous of chemicals require caution in their handling (E.g bicarbonate of soda, salt, spirit vinegar, ethanol), and condensed annie and alkali metals a little more than many, but not to a degree that has managed to stop a fuckton of redneck hicks running Birch-Benkeser reductions on pseudo or ephedrine.
 
Arthur Birch apparently used to drive around in the Australian summer with the windows in his car rolled down and big ol' open topped Dewars of liquid ammonia when he needed to transport ammonia from the supplier to the university.
 
LMAO that is quite the mental image!

Although once one HAS the liquid annie, of course keeping her that way is the easy bit, it is the condensing itself which generally proves the trickier bit.

Can't say I'd want to have been riding shotgun with Birch though when he was making such a trip. I mean, I've had to sleep with a gas mask on once before, and that wasn't comfortable, especially when trying to sleep on my side or front, but a road trip? with a bunch of open Dewars full of NH3, in the australian summer heat? that had at least to be a bit stinky, and god help any poor bastard who wouldn't be so prescient as to keep a gas mask and ABEK type cartridges for it in his car (I don't drive myself, actually, I can't, due to the potential for seizures, but if I did, I'd sure as shit make sure to have a few masks, enough at least for myself and as many passengers as could fit among the porta-lab for any spot-analysis of potential mineral deposits and for reagent-testing wild mushrooms that I'd be keeping along for the ride)

Never know when you are going to need a gas mask. Well not here anyway.

But not so sure as I'd go for a road trip with a load of Dewars full of anhydrous, bet THAT would keep the tailgaters at bay though. Wouldn't get too many people trying to drive up your chocolate starfish if all you had to do was loosen a cork and loose off a blast or two of anhydrous ammonia, a bit of methylamine to add a little complexity to the perfume maybe. Bet that would persuade plenty of them to fuck off pretty quickly=D

Just a squirt of acrolein for the really persistent ones, and you'd be all sorted, or maybe some chloroacetone, Not exactly the most stable compounds either, but undoubtedly effective, I should think. I still haven't forgotten the first time I ever made acrolein, dehydrating glycerin bought to supplement an early kid's chemistry set, using the sodium bisulfate that they included in it, on a test tube to test tube distillation scale, and eventually discarding the remnant few ml of unused acrolein left over after mucking about with it as a nipper down the sink (no, don't think too badly of me, I didn't have much to learn from at the time, library books, kid's chemistry sets for a few things I found hard to find otherwise, like cobalt salts, and of course raiding any and every useful looking OTC, from car starting sprays for diethyl and diisopropyl ether. Wasn't much, and I sure don't dump chemicals down the sink NOW, I was under 10 at the time, just starting out as a chemist, no mentor bar myself, a load of textbooks on compounds, basics as to how they were made and their properties, kept on more or less permanent re-loan from the libraries nearby, serving as inspiration for 'what to try making next' or 'want to chlorinate something...lets see....PCl5 looks doable...' sort of work.

Poured that acrolein down the kitchen sink, not at the time, knowing better for organics that weren't halogenated, or highly toxic, and flushed it with water. Stupid me at the time accidentally turned the kitchen sink water tap the wrong way, flushing it down with steaming HOT water, with face not far from the sink either. Resulting in the predictable, but most unwelcome filthy, rotting burnt fat-stinking teargas fart from the bowels of Tartarus being vomited back up from the U-bend. God, that was just NASTY. Funny as fuck, looking back on it, but you just bet your balls I wasn't a happy camper at the time, standing just about head height above the sink and counter top at that age too, getting the whole acrolein-laden hellfart thrown back in my face. Probably learned quite a large expansion to my repertoire of profanity within all of five seconds that at that age I really shouldn't have known,

(In addition to that learned specifically for the purpose of describing the pauper-dom of kid's chemistry sets, like trying to fob kids off with PLASTIC test tubes, and all of the good stuff, the phosphorus, the bromine, the iodine had to be made from things not even IN the set, let alone supplying the P, Br2, I2, ICl, ICl3, metal powders and the like that are needed for so much of the juicier kiddie-chem, and boring suggestions of experiments they tried to do likewise with, like isolating bloody mixtures of plant pigments, Synthesis of them from scratch might have been interesting, but just extracting chlorophyll and the like...it's a damn wonder any kids who aren't born with the interest just ready to sprout once fertile soil is found, circumstantially speaking and in terms of resources, ever bother, with the bloody garbage they put in modern 'chemistry' sets. Not even a single piece of glass tubing, or test tube that can be heated, only glass being a tiny alcohol spirit lamp IF you got really lucky :(

It makes me feel really sorry for kids who'd want to follow in my own footsteps without having an adult benefactor of some sort who'd know their shit, I didn't, but I did have at least, the drive and dedication to learn in spite of, rather than aided by, such chemistry sets. And a lot of inventiveness when it came to raising otherwise unobtainable money, for the likes of 98% sulfuric, conc. HCl, NaOH, ammonium salts, permanganate, making chlorates from scratch and what have you, be it gutting lead acid batteries for the lead oxides and semipermeable acid-resistant membranes, and the lead sulfate before filling them with dirt and sealing them up again to sell, to selling flowers, or copper and lead scrounged from derelict buildings to fund the beginnings of constructing a lab. (nobody else was doing it, and his school didn't even TEACH science, not in any meaningfull way, just bloody worksheets, never a single experiment, no chemistry bar once being shown iodine tincture on a potato slice from right the far end of a 'classroom' they had the NERVE to call 'a lab'. That too, was something more that gave him the drive to make damn sure he had his own lab and the freedom to explore. Even if it did end up with him having to sell flowers off the back of a push bike door to door when copper and lead and more lucrative income wasn't forthcoming. It had to happen though)

(don't mind him...just an old, old memory come back of my starting out in his scientific career for some reason, perhaps due to the regretful reflection on the paucity of kid's chemistry sets even in childhood days, never mind NOW. Now....dread to even think what crap they put in there)
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1481807/

Voila, a solid. There are several papers from the late 50s on the stuff and it's dubious.

The Chinese evidently use a lot of low MW tertiary (halo)alkyl carbamate addition salts. Not very subtle having palettes of the stuff turning up at residential home. Not a huge hurdle but dimwits mixing them with alcohol and/or other downers will leave a trail of bodies that will make the peak of the GHB terror look like Himalayan salt. Some things aren't controlled as such because the first person you are likely to kill is yourself. If you go for 2,2,2-trichloroethyl carbamate then you will likely take out everyone within a hundred yards.

When is it a PSA and when is it a poison?
 
Last edited:
Top