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Thread: Using narcan to precipitate withdrawal then switch to Suboxone

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    #26
    Yea that?s my goal to get on the lowest stable dose. I?m a little worried about my shift tomorrow. I?m probably going to take my 48 Imodium at midnite tonite and by 9am Thursday I should be in withdrawal and feeling rough. I?ll take my baclofen and Lyrica to cope.

    She told me they start me at 2mg, then increase it until I feel better. After they get me stable I get a weeks worth. After a month and a half 2 weeks worth, then eventually 3 then 4. At the va you get an appointment list. I have mine mapped out till February. I?m fine with the appointments because I work 330-midnite and I?m going to be going to groups and counseling that I signed up for. They have a really great program.

    I need this because I also have PTSD and I see a psychiatrist frequently here. I have to take other medication too. I think this is going to be a great move in the rite direction for me. I?m tired of using. I just want a stable life. I lost my marriage due to substance abuse and undiagnosed PTSD. I have a 4 year old daughter who needs her daddy. I?m hoping to see her soon.
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    #27
    I took 24 Imodium at midnite last nite and I?m starting to get sick now at 19 hours. I got 4% lidocaine and I know it?s not safe, don?t do it, first time I did I was scared, but if I Iv 3ml it makes the wd go away for a while. So I should be ok to induce tomorrow. Btw it took me a good bit of experimentation to get the Iv dose correct and I have actual pharmaceutical lidocaine Iv 4%. So do not get any ideas I am not going to be responsible for another?s death because of stupidity in od or trying to shoot lidocaine cream from Walgreens. Also I have 3ml rigs so good luck finding them anyway. Thank you.
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    #28
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    Lidocaine? Never ONCE heard of this being used
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    #29
    Ladyhlove probably because there aren?t a whole lot of people who have access to big quantities of 4% lidocaine made for iv use lying around.

    But anyway I made it to my appointment and was feeling awful this morning. I got induced at 11 at 2mg, then at noon at another 2mg. It killed about 80% of my shittyness and she gave me another 4mg to take in a split dose later. I see her tomorrow, she said she can do more than 8mg tomorrow. Then I get a 3 day prescription for the long weekend. I have to go tues and Wednesday then I think I?ll be on weekly and go up in time.

    I can tell this stuff works and will do wonders when I get on the right dose. She said I can be on it for life. With my history with the VA, and they document everything, if it keeps me clean I?m good. The va says they?ll never lower your dose or force you to stop.
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    #30
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    I'm glad it worked out. I'm not sure how safe IV lidocaine is though. I know it's used in ACLS protocol during cardiac arrest. That's the only thing I've ever heard of it being used for. Can you talk about it's use for us more? I'm genuinely interested
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    #31
    Yesterday afternoon I took a dose at 4:30 cause I fleas feeling sick, and one at 9:30. My nose was running the whole night and I sweated a lot. I ended up having diarrhea at 9.
    Now this morning I?m at the lab doing my uds. It takes an hour to get to the doctor. It?s the va. I?m definitely feeling sick this morning. I?m going to have her increase the dose and hopefully it?ll work a little better today. Especially since I have to work again tonight.
    Last edited by Ragnathebloodedge; 09-11-2018 at 15:40.
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    #32
    They just gave me 10mg at the office and 2mg for later. Then a 3 day script for 12mg. My palms are sweaty, and I sweat when I go outside for 2 minutes... it?s Florida, and my nose runs a little but cravings are gone. I?m not at 100% but not dopesick.
    By the way it?s Buprenorphine only not Suboxone.
    Hopefully I?ll be at 100 by the next few days.
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    #33
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    Sometimes it takes a few days for it to build in your system and for the receptors to acclimate to a partial agonist.
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    #34
    I wanted to say the dr was adamant and thorough about your withdrawal and last use. Apparently they have had 2 cases of precipitatied withdrawal in 8 years. Fortunately for those folks they were at a va hospital when it happened. They were carted to the er. The nurse told me one case where the guy was taking fentenyl and lied and it did show on his ua.

    Update 930pm
    Finally here at about 930 tonite I stopped sweating profusely when outside. It?s warm here but not that warm. Also my nose still runs a little. I still sweat a little. I really feel like by tomorrow afternoon or evening I should be at 95-100% which is what the pharmacist here told me.
    I forgot the doc told me today that she?s probably going to keep me at 12mg because I have such a substance abuse history. That and I od in middle of summer and had to be narcaned and was put in the icu for almost 2 weeks.
    Last edited by Ragnathebloodedge; 10-11-2018 at 05:00.
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    #35
    I'm glad you got started Ragna. CJ, gives spot on advice/wisdom, it does take your body time to adjust to Subs. Anywhere from 2-5 days.

    Im familiar with the VA. You're going to be glad you did this. It's well worth the hassle.

    Ragna, as CJ asked, could you tell us a little more about the lidocaine? We're interested because it's something we've never heard of before. And believe me, we've heard and experienced it all. I'm glad you're ok after your cycle accident.
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    #36
    As far as the lidocaine I found this by experimentation because like you said there?s no documented sources of using it anywhere. Most ampoules of the stuff for injection comes in 1% or 1% with epinephrine. I found some that?s 4%. I took a better look at it and it?s for injection not IV. I misread the label. Oh well.
    I found out that if you can iv 3ml at once, don?t know if it?ll work if you iv 1ml 3 times fast, then it?ll knock you on your ass! Literally the first time I got 2 or 3ml in I fell out thinking I just killed myself.
    It sort of numbs the whole body to where you can?t stand up right for a minute or so. Gives you a real dizzy type head rush comparable to nitrous oxide. It has a jittery or speedy kind of effect afterwards akin to a bunch of coffee or extremely poor dirt coke, but milder I guess. I may benefit from it because I know what dose I can tolerate, what it does to me, etc. I was doing it from time to time at work to make it fun. Plus it gives me energy. Also I have access to 3ml syringes with interchangeable tips and can get an infinite supply so I?m not reusing needles. I?m at nite janitor so I work alone. I found one nite while kinda dopesick that it helped with withdrawal. Mind you I never tried it while in full blown withdrawal hell.

    To be extremely honest if you had access to several cases of nitrous oxide you could essentially get through some opiate withdrawal a lot safer.

    Ps 1% doesn?t work. It isn?t strong enough.

    Also ps I missed your post for some reason CJ. I?ve been feeling pretty rough until now. I have no idea what lidocaine is used for, not at all a medical professional, but it is kept in the ENT area.
    Also there?s not a chance I?ll try the 1% with epinephrine in it. I keep an ampoule in case for someone with an anaphylactic reaction to something but that?s it.

    I just looked it up. Iv lidocaine is used as an anasthesia for ENT surgery. But I don?t see how considering how it doesn?t last that long.
    Last edited by Ragnathebloodedge; 10-11-2018 at 06:13. Reason: Added
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    #37
    That's really interesting Ragna. You have just discovered something new my friend.

    I sat and actually tried to think about how lidocaine would help withdrawal. I came up with the numbing effect probably helps.

    My husband is an Operation Iraqi Freedom veteran. I've spent alot of time at the Center City Philadelphia VA. Alot. Of. Time. Lol.

    Thanks for sharing that. Don't worry, I'm not going to try it. I have no access to injectable lidocaine. Really interesting though.

    Switching from a full-agonist to a partial-agonist opiate is a little rough. I've done it alot of times. Once you're stable, you'll be fine. It's alot better than chasing dope or being sick. Thanks for the update Ragna. 🇺🇸 ❤️
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    #38
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    re: bupe, i've learned from experience that you can take up to 2mg every 2 hours or so without precipitating withdrawals, without having to wait until wds start to start taking it (you can start with 1mg/hr if you want to be sure). i had a period where i would regularly transition from bupe->heroin->bupe->heroin->bupe and always did it that way, taking 2mg/2hrs until i was up to about 12 hrs after my last shot, then doses of 4-8mg at once are fine.
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    #39
    Today is the 3rd day. This morning I woke up after 10 hours of sleep because I hadn?t slept the prior 2 nights much. I woke up at 11 feeling rough and took 8mg and I felt almost 100%. I took the other 4mg at about 5 and an hour later I felt like I?m back to my normal self. I feel great tonight. The sweating stopped to but it cooled off a little this afternoon. It?s about 930.

    I went to a NA meeting down the road and raised my hand that I was a newcomer and picked up a white key tag. They gave me some stuff to read and a list of phone numbers and meetings. I think I?m going to go to NA along with my counseling and groups at the VA. I told them about the Suboxone and they said that doesn?t matter. Just keep coming back.
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by 10YearsGone View Post
    That's really interesting Ragna. You have just discovered something new my friend.

    🇺🇸 ❤️
    I figured that much. I couldn?t find any info anywhere on it. But it must relieve pain in ent surgery somehow.The stuff says for infiltration and nerve block on it. But that?s the 1%. I don?t have any more 4%. If I get a chance I?ll look at a bottle. But I have no desire to IV the stuff anymore. The Suboxone is helping so much with cravings and dope sickness.
    It?s not like methadone which I?ve been on and it sucks. She tried talking me in to methadone but I refused and I?m so glad I did!
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    #41
    I woke up the 4th day not in any kind of withdrawal!! This is great I have no cravings or anything. I?m going to take my 4mg dose and go to church and save the other 8mg for later.
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    #42
    Awesome. Isn't great being stable? I'm not there yet. I'm on day 3 of re-induction. I'm also on Subutex not Suboxone.

    I think me feeling shitty is partially due to being in Neurontin (gabapentin) withdrawal today. I haven't taken them since around 4:30am yesterday.

    Hope you enjoy church and feeling like you again.
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    #43
    Hey Ragna-

    Now that I'm feeling better, it was Neurontin. I metabolize things quickly.

    That's great that you're participating in NA meetings by raising your hand. I keep Subutex to myself for now. I mean, I have a close friend I occasionally go to meetings with, that knows.

    If I meet someone I get close to, I may share that. My reason for keeping it to myself is I don't want to get pissed off and not go back.

    If anyone tells you that you're not clean because your on subs, that's bullshit. My life is completely unmanageable if I'm shooting dope everyday. So, for me, I'm clean as long as I'm not doing that.

    I also was on methadone. I had a bad experience with it. I was sick everyday by 4pm. Every morning I went into the clinic visably sick. Pale, face covered in sweat, etc. I tried to voice this to my counselor who was an idiot, everyday. He kept telling me it was in my head. It was a nightmare.

    By pure coincidence, it was discovered during a blood test, that I'm an aborrent metabolizer. My methadone level was so ridiculously low in the morning that they asked me if I was really swallowing it. Wth? I know people sell spit back. Not me. I want my meds thank you.

    Anyway, I have to split dose. I'd either take most of it in the morning, or half of it and take the rest in the afternoon or evening. But I went through hell for s few years. I also still had cravings.

    But, that's irrelevant. I have cravings no matter what I'm on. Im the problem. I've learned that I have to do more than take an opiate replacement. I have to participate in my recovery.

    Use the numbers on the pamphlet if you need or want to. Really. Most people want to help. I'm really happy to hear that you are feeling better. You're making great progress. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙂
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