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Opioids Well I'm back looking for kratom dosing advice

T

tacodude

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
4,786
So basically everything in my area has become tainted with fentanyl within the last month or so even the black tar that used to be a good way to avoid it. It seems to be happening at the supplier level and not the dealers as every different source has about the same amount of fentanyl and it seems too evenly cut be a dealer just re-cutting their stuff or mixing some of the white fentanyl powder that recently made its round. I have been using about 1/2 gram a day although the last few days it's gone up to 0.7 g spread through the day. I used to estimate 10%-20% purity although with the fent my tolerance has likely rised a bit although I doubt by much.


So I just picked up a few red strains, a couple red enhanced leaf with a 5:1 leaf:extract ratio, and a few grams of extract being three 15x extracts with one being a green strain and one 20x red stain extract. The extracts I have heard are made in a pretty professional setup and they look marvelous like a crystalline powder. I made a few 100 mg caps out of a 15x red extract and I have ≈14-15 grams weighed out in 0.4-0.5 gram caps of red indo leaf. I plan to start Sunday so I'm hoping I can get a good idea of what I should expect my dose to be and where to start.


Ps. In case anyone is wondering about me I've been doing better due to my parents helping me buy the opioids I've needed starting with PST before this years drought hit going to black before the fentanyl came in screwing me over as I just have started going to a physical therapist that actually does legit manipulations and intensive basic exercises rather than a bullshit massage and band stretches that cause my bones to grind in my joint that they tell me just to push through when I tell them it's getting worse and the pain literally was preventing me. I might be starting a job soon too although my last job refuses to let me return even though I was told otherwise for a long time, but that's there loss. Anyways hope everyone's well

Pps. Fuck the kratom subreddit banning me over one stupid mistake when they don't have a rules thread and only the sidebar the mobile site doesn't see
 
Glad to hear from you again :)

Doesn't take much to get banned from the kratom sub reddit, lol

Careful with the extracts, they can quickly make regular kratom seem useless in comparison if you use them too much.

Can't make a good suggestion for dosage, I have very little experience with heroin despite many years abusing other opioids/opiates. Maybe start with like 5-10g of non extract and see how you feel?

It can sometimes take a couple days to stabilize properly when switching from a strong opiate/opioid to kratom. So don't be surprised if the kratom doesn't make you feel 100% at first, things will stabilize within a couple days. Don't use as it as an excuse to hit the extracts too hard and/or dose too high during that time otherwise you'll just raise your tolerance to kratom unnecessarily.

From my experience, anyways.
 
Thanks... I don't plan to use more than 100 mg of extract at once especially knowing how well they are made. Likely a proccess similar to extracting phalaris grass for DMT, but I won't say anything more as I don't really know and out of respect to the vendor. I just want the extracts so I don't have to ingest so much leaf.

Should I start with 2, 3, or 4 grams of leaf before going up by the hour? Also lets just say I inject something around the equivalent to 15-30 at most 60 mg morphine as that was about my dose last time I used morphine, which I've run into a couple times in between using black.
 
Never had kratom so I can't speak on it. But just wanted to say glad your still here!
 
tacodude said:
...I plan to start Sunday so I'm hoping I can get a good idea of what I should expect my dose to be and where to start.
Click to expand...
Looks to be that your tolerance to opioids/opiates (whatever) may be a bit high from what your posts suggests.
May I ask what the reason for kratom option? I mean... with all the other substances listed I am not sure I can discern the intent.
I would also encourage one to not start out with extracts or resins. There are scads of other alkaloids in the leaf that play a role in it's effectiveness to manage issues other than pain management. These extracts and whatnot take away that spectrum effect and may destroy the full benefits the leaf offers.
Generally; start with a gram of plain leaf and work up if needed. I understand that this may sound ridiculous yet without understanding "why" the kratom... it is hard to guess what dose to suggest. Hell, when I found it and needed something to curb my ass-hole-ic opi/benz WDs, I tried half a gram and felt the WDs subsiding. I did jump to .750mg and then 1 gram but damn if I wasn't freaking amazed at what this plant could do.
Aside: I copped a few oxies the other day and found that I had lost my "taste" for them. Didn't care for the feeling anymore and was glad to be rid of them. Go figure.
Soooo... since I missed the point: What is the reason for adding kratom to your arsenal, please?
 
Hey there taco :) I use to be on a buttload of hydrocodone and also shot H as well. When I wanted to get off, I switched to kratom too. Im sure you know, that kratom dosage is specific to each person. While you may feel the effects at 3mg, I might not feel them till 6mg. If you take too much kratom (high high doses) there is a chemical in there that acts like "narcan", and you wont even feel the effects. (I cant remember what its called).

I would stay away from extracts, as it can raise your tolerance quickly. Once you start to feel the effects of the regular kratom, add or subtract some to see if you feel the effects better. It took me awhile to find my dosage, im at 6.3mg. Anything under or over that dosage, I dont feel anything.
 
Tek if you read my post you would see I only have access to black tar that's expensive tainted with fentanyl and I don't want to fentanyl. I only plan to use the extracts with the leaf as well, but just want to take less. Also are you basing my tolerance on the amount of heroin used or the morphine dose as my tolerance is likely on the higher end of what I stated would be enough morphine per dose (30-60 mg) every 4-6 hours.

Chris do you mean grams as 6.3 mg would be 0.0063 grams, which is a rediculous microdose.
 
For what it's worth: I had a very high tolerance to various opioids, went through methadone maintenance which I eventually got down to 10-20mg daily, quit, jumped to subs for a few months at 2-4mg daily. With headshop kratom I found the best results around 5-6 grams per dose. If I were you I'd start with 3 grams on an empty stomach, wait about an hour to see where you're at, and add 3 grams on top of that for a total of 6 grams.

If that doesn't do the trick attempt 6 grams the next day. You will find the need to re-dose multiple times throughout the day to keep it going. I usually kept it to 3 or 4 doses in a day but never any 4-6 hours before bed because it made it hard to sleep. If 6 doesn't do it go up by a gram or so until you find your sweet spot. With kratom there seems to be a point where adding more in a dose doesn't add much more to the experience. You can get mild warm/fuzzys from it but the main use it to keep yourself from being sick/using stronger opioids/tapering off and getting away from opioids all together. I mostly use it sparingly to kill any urges I get for wanting to use my preferred opioids.

I've never used extracts and everyone advises not to use them if you want to continue getting anything from plain leaf. Also, some extracts have been found to contain RCs so be careful about where you've sourced them from. I hope this was helpful.

Also, make sure to consume a full glass of water and drink a lot of water throughout the day. Kratom makes you pee a lot and will dry out your skin badly after many days of use in a row. You have to stay hydrated.
 
tacodude said:
... I only have access to black tar that's expensive tainted with fentanyl and I don't want to fentanyl. I only plan to use the extracts with the leaf as well, but just want to take less.
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Oh... I think I see now. One wishes to use less fent-tainted tar with the kratom?
Nah... did not base tolerance on anything other than my experience; which was super high from fent, oxi, hydro, valium, xandy bars and whatever else came to hand.
IMO: kratom should only be used as a tool to get off other shit or treat chronic ailments or disorders. Just my opinion and it is probably bull-sh**.
Sorry I misunderstood your OP but I'm a little slow....
 
No tek I don't want to use anything with fent at all and can't get pure h.

I think the concerns with extracts are overblown and only an issue if abused... Also I'm sure mine don't have any rcs cut, which that hasn't been an issue for a while. If you're using 5-6 grams of smoke shop stuff I'll probably need less or at most the same of the stuff I ordered from this legit vendor

Edit: I also have chronic pain
 
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I do about 6-10 (total) grams dosed 4-5 times a day... for pain, anxiety and general ugliness.
Good luck on getting anything without fent (think i mighta got some fent tainted xan lately - the green ones). Tasted right, fine lines on close inspection, nice job but a bit "crumbly" and seems a bit too strong (nodding and sh**, ya know?). I have some from a known script (V.A. Y-21) and the feeling is more what I am used to.
Gave up looking for H a few years ago as it was getting more and more "trashy". Used to hand off 50 100mcg patches a month and made mad $... but odds run out and I excused myself from the situation before they did. Fent is no stranger to me.
Seems all I do now is kratom (daily), 800mg of phenibut every two days and burn wood daily.
Fent is a huge issue and getting worse. The only option I have found to avoid it is to find "alternatives".
Booooooring... but safe (for now) and got a few bucks in my pocket.
Not to say I wouldn't get a buzz-on with the best of them/ya'll: Bring it on... time and place for everything. :)

Edit: got about 5 kilos of kratom about. i give it away to my peeps that cant cop soon enough.
 
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You're not kidding about the fent... I think it's not the dealers, but the supplier of tar to the West coast that is cutting it with fent. It used to be possible to avoid it buying tar, but not anymore within the last month or so. I don't think I've used enough fent to raise my tolerance up like that and I dose every 4-6 hours as well because I still get relief that long even up to 8 hours if lucky, which wouldn't be the case if my tolerance was so high I could only use fent. I think I got a good idea what to start with now though
 
I would dose about 5-6 grams of the normal red vein kratom powder. How that translates to the extracts is anybody's guess.
 
tacodude said:
Tek if you read my post you would see I only have access to black tar that's expensive tainted with fentanyl and I don't want to fentanyl. I only plan to use the extracts with the leaf as well, but just want to take less. Also are you basing my tolerance on the amount of heroin used or the morphine dose as my tolerance is likely on the higher end of what I stated would be enough morphine per dose (30-60 mg) every 4-6 hours.

Chris do you mean grams as 6.3 mg would be 0.0063 grams, which is a rediculous microdose.
Click to expand...

yes that would be GRAMS. My mistake.
 
tacodude said:
.... I dose every 4-6 hours as well because I still get relief that long even up to 8 hours if lucky,...
Click to expand...
Does this include "other" or just kratom? Or do i have it all wrong again?
If kratom... resin, extract, whole leaf, crushed/powdered-leaf or other form (maybe IV-ing like the interwebs claim? <---lol).? I am genuinely curious as it's a bitch dealing with WDs all around. Just wondering where you are at in this.
I do play a small part in the AKA struggle with FDA: What little background gleaned from the last couple days indicate we may have had similar experiences in certain fields and there are many more in (or been on) this ride.
It is a thing that i pick others minds if allowed; for personal insight and maybe help expedite evolution.
 
Well no one should be injecting kratom in any form and it just would not be feasible to make an extract that can be injected as it would take isolating a compound from another compound that's so similar it would be impossible to separate without a lab and even with a lab extremely difficult and not worthwhile... I also don't think people smoke it either, but it's not that hard to roll some kratom into a joint. I don't know if the compounds could survive the heat to be vaporized even if they did smoke it.

That being said what you quoted was how long the black tar I've been using lasts. I only started the kratom today, which has helped me greatly reduce the amount I've used today using 1-3 grams of leaf with 100 mg of a really well made extract that still would be considered a resin

I will say if they ban kratom it would push a lot of people back to buying off the streets, which are flooded with fentanyl in many forms including fake oxycodone IR and ER formulations. What needs to be done is the restrictions on prescribing regular morphine/codeine based opioids need to be drawn back so that properly regulated prescriptions can be provided with the understanding any diversion, and not supplementing with street use when not prescribed enough as many doctors facilitate a situation like that to happen to sabotage someone who's made the effort to go through detox and fight the pain just to satisfy their needs to prove on paper that there's motivation not to use only for the doctor to purposely under prescribed until the patient self medicates only to turn around and call them an addict just trying to get high again to protect their own asses for cutting the patient off when it's clear it will lead to withdrawals and a degradation of the patients health and life stability, that such diversion would lead to a discontinuation. The reason being that too often now doctors are relying on methadone and Suboxone opiod replacement therapy as a replacement for opioid pain management when it's not even close. The reason why is that it is not dosed often enough as well as the patient usually has to get up and go to a clinic to get their dose, which can be impossible to push through the pain fast enough to get to clinics before they close.

I can go on about how wrong things are being handled to prevent opioid diversion by blaming patients and cutting off necessary opioid pain management to facilitate stabilizing in non drug treatment method where many patients aren't even having their pain acknowledged to back up the addiction. These claims leading to the patient not receiving proper treatment from their pain leading to long term neglect that causes the problem to compound and get worse as well as prolong the opioid dependency, but unless it will lead to the necessary changes that need to be made to the medical system to cause doctors to provide opiod pain meds to those that can use stable doses without overdosing or impacting functioning it's a waste of time and will derail this topic too far. You can message me if you want, but the issue hits home for me to hard to be able to properly discuss these issues.

That being said as I stated earlier I just started the kratom today I've gone through 8 grams of leaf and 300-400 mg of extract total along with half the amount of what I usually use and have been doing fine today so I call that successful
 
The IV kratom was a bad joke re: the latest ploy by the powers that be to ban the leaf.
Hey, bro/sis: As an experiment; try missing a dose or two of H and just dose a few grams of powdered kratom when you "feel" it. Not pushing the issue just wanna see if the H can be put down completely (just for a minute).
Some say it is only good for getting off opies but damn if it hasn't done a great job for my getting off fent, H, benz and anything else I may or may not have become dependent on. Also mentioned in the media (for what that's worth) that it keeps the WDs for meth and other stims at bay... this I cannot corroborate as never had an issue with uppers.
I also get pretty jacked about the epidemic that our leaders and pharm have created and would most likely (spelled definitely) get shit-canned if I allowed myself to attend rallies and whatnot... so I do not go. But then I get jacked about anything dealing with the corruption and hypocrisy of them sumsabitches.
It is our choice but damn... they leave us with options that keep us destitute, IMO.
I got a serious dose of dopamine (natural) when I read that kratom is helping you with your situation (even if minimal).
 
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I already cut my use in half the first day and actually only uses 6 grams of leaf (2 grams per dose) as I found 4 more half gram caps I made not realizing they fell into another part of my bag I,put the smaller bag holding the leaf caps in.
 
Just wondering: Since starting the kratom has the compulsion for lack of a better word) to hit H been an issue?
Seems habits and rituals play a huge part in getting high for me. Just wondering if the craving is there....
Thanks
 
Yeah.... There's definitely a factor of not wanting to give it up, but that seems separate from the kratom effectiveness. It's just a lot easier to inject and get immediate relief then to swallow a number of leaf packed capsules and hope it works before the previous dose wears off. It's just part of the adjustment period I guess. Hopefully it will get easier in a few days once I really get down how much I need to take to get relief and when I need to take it... I'm also planning to buy cannabis again when I get my income next month so there's that too. I honestly do look forward to the point that I don't have to worry about keeping IV gear around and can just carry capsules that could be anything that are easy to use wherever rather than having to prepare a shot and inject, which draws a lot of attention. It's definitely not an easy transition, but there's also a lot going on in my life. If things were less stressful and demanding the transition would likely be a lot easier.
 
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