Christianity & Islam: Are Either of them a Religion of Peace?

[|~~ANT~~|]

i'm kinda confused about the aim of this thread.
don't like islam? ok - fine. so what?

please bear in mind that we have this in our user agreement -


post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason;


if you want to start a thread that consists of everyone pouring hate on muslims, bluelight is not the right forum for it.

i think the topic is too broad to be particularly meaningful.

The aim of the thread is to discuss whether or not one religion has caused more harm to society than another religion and/or why it is impossible to have such a discussion in a polite society. We should be able to discuss things. If it was a thread criticising Christianity, more people would agree. Hell, two people so far have said they prefer Christianity over Islam. I assume those who haven't stated their opinion secretly believe that Islam is worse? If you want to close the thread, go ahead. But it makes more sense simply to not reply to it. If it has no merit and nobody wants to discuss it, it will die out... Right?

I'm not victimising / harrassing / degrading / intimidating anyone.

I don't have a bad attitude.

Whatever man, you're the one being difficult and patronizing/condescending/insulting ("It is cowardly to refuse to see Islam for what it is" for example), the rest of us are just stating our opinions in reply to yours

That is my opinion. It is cowardly and at the expense of people, especially women, suffering under Islam.

whatever mate

You obviously have a very narrow perspective of Islamic youth.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Funny you say that actually. I had a drunken talk with my boyfriend one evening about this. (As I said earlier, I'm half Jew.)
Long story short, he expressed at the end of the day, a lot of those people were just trying to live like everyone else. A lot didn't even really have a choice. A rather large pill for me to swallow, but I couldn't say he was wrong.

I assume your boyfriend isn't 80 and therefore he wasn't there, but - yeah - I'm aware that it was a difficult choice. Opposing Nazi Germany more often than not resulted in death but people still had a choice. The Nazis were invading other countries. So, if everyone just rolled over and said "we don't really have a choice here, might as well join them" then maybe it would be as widespread today as Islam is... I have a lot of sympathy for Nazis and Germans, in general. White Americans feel guilty about slavery, even though it is very unlikely their ancestors actually had slaves. Germans have to process a lot... A lot of people have relatives that were involved in the Third Reich... I also feel sorry for Hitler. He's such a brilliant, confused miserable man... Such a mistake.

I feel sorry for Islamic women more.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

I'm not pointing out the contradictions to belittle you, just hope you see for yourself.

You didn't point out any contradictions.

 

[PearlBoots]

I assume your boyfriend isn't 80 and therefore he wasn't there

Well, why would you assume that? I'm broke.

But in all seriousness, I can SOMEWHAT agree with you on Adolf. It's hard for me to say I feel "sorry" for him, but it is unfortunate he chose the path he did. He was by no means, a stupid man. ***can't say I don't get satisfaction from the whole thing of him getting syphilis from a jewish prostitute though. But as for the rest of that, I'm sure you're well aware, that didn't just start happening overnight. Hitler's youth was the biggest factor. Children that knew know better and were molded for his gain. In truth, majority probably thought they were doing the right thing wholeheartedly.
I don't feel sorry for Islamic women as a whole. I don't deny that there are some really terrible stuff that goes on to a number of them, and I hope to whatever God that one day there will finally be a stop to it. *again, not lumping that into all of islam*. This is a very ugly world we live in unfortunately. I'll just continue trying my best not spread that ugly.

*internet is fair game doe.*;
**kidding.

 

[PearlBoots]

You didn't point out any contradictions.[/COLOR]

You're a very frustrating person, lol.
And I mean that in the least bitchiest way possible.

 

[invegauser]

damn miss PearlBoots. another person on BL i have something to learn from.

swallowing that larger pill is very respectable.

and then there is this...

But in all seriousness, I can SOMEWHAT agree with you on Adolf. It's hard for me to say I feel "sorry" for him, but it is unfortunate he chose the path he did. He was by no means, a stupid man. ***can't say I don't get satisfaction from the whole thing of him getting syphilis from a jewish prostitute though. But as for the rest of that, I'm sure you're well aware, that didn't just start happening overnight. Hitler's youth was the biggest factor. Children that knew know better and were molded for his gain. In truth, majority probably thought they were doing the right thing wholeheartedly.
I don't feel sorry for Islamic women as a whole. I don't deny that there are some really terrible stuff that goes on to a number of them, and I hope to whatever God that one day there will finally be a stop to it. *again, not lumping that into all of islam*. This is a very ugly world we live in unfortunately. I'll just continue trying my best not spread that ugly.

speechless!

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

But in all seriousness, I can SOMEWHAT agree with you on Adolf. It's hard for me to say I feel "sorry" for him, but it is unfortunate he chose the path he did. He was by no means, a stupid man. ***can't say I don't get satisfaction from the whole thing of him getting syphilis from a jewish prostitute though. But as for the rest of that, I'm sure you're well aware, that didn't just start happening overnight. Hitler's youth was the biggest factor. Children that knew know better and were molded for his gain. In truth, majority probably thought they were doing the right thing wholeheartedly.

I don't feel sorry for Islamic women as a whole. I don't deny that there are some really terrible stuff that goes on to a number of them, and I hope to whatever God that one day there will finally be a stop to it. *again, not lumping that into all of islam*. This is a very ugly world we live in unfortunately. I'll just continue trying my best not spread that ugly.

Do you feel sorry for Islamic homosexuals?

You're a very frustrating person

Thank you.

Your post was nonsensical. You said sorry for pointing out contradictions, but you didn't present any data. You said you like to see things from both sides and that I am failing to do that with the Christian side of things... but you didn't present any explanation for how or why I am doing this, with reference to what I have posted.

 

[PearlBoots]

Your post was nonsensical. You said sorry for pointing out contradictions, but you didn't present any data. You said you like to see things from both sides and that I am failing to do that with the Christian side of things... but you didn't present any explanation for how or why I am doing this, with reference to what I have posted.

Lol, lawd.
1. I gave the same vague numbers you did.
2. You definitely are. You've ignored several things throughout this entire thread that others have pointed out. Or you just flat out refuse to acknowledge it. (Like now) or made weak attempts to discredit any thing you disagreed with. (And failed)
3. Why in the world would I need to explain why/how you're doing "this". (Lmfao) It's very clear what your intentions are.
4. Reference to what you posted? Oh! You mean like a direct quote of yours?


Anyways. You're not pleasant to chat with whatsoever. I feel like I'm speaking with a fragile 14 year old wearing his daddy's MAGA hat, flailing and stomping whilst shouting his bigoted bullshit rhetoric. No intellectual gain from this on my end whatsoever. I tried to lighten the mood, but you insist on being a pompous ass, so I'm out.
***now you can make another post about just how respectful you are and it's everyone else that is being childish.

I want to be wrong.

No worries, you are.

-ʾIn shāʾa llāh

 

[PearlBoots]

speechless!

I'm not sure if that is a good speechless or bad, but on my end reading what I posted.....I am fucking terrible at sentence structure. Terrible wording. Oh whale. I was stuffing my face trying not to puke reading half of this shit, all whilst trying to maintain my presence, lol. ***what I meant was, while yes, there is some terrible things that Islamic women are subjected to in certain parts of the world, there are million others that deserve praise. An I wouldn't feel comfortable overshadowing the great and good things with the small (but significant, nonetheless) issues. He's generalized people of islam the entire post, I was trying to refrain from doing that as well. It could have been a great opportunity bring up their strengths instead of the negatives.

 

[invegauser]

impressed to the point of a loss of words.

in short

on your recent post, agreed.

much is misconstrued in today's world. so much hate and ignorance.

most people are only familiar with the bad side of a few radical sects of islam. i'm not as familiar with it as i would like to be (due to circumstances for the last 8 years) but from what lil i understand there are things that are generally misunderstood like much of human history, somethings taken out of context from fear and somethings of the true religion that are not agreeable to others way of life.

imo that last one is their own choice to live by and i can respect it as such, as well as i believe others shouldn't force them to change their ways but enlighten them as does some scriptures in the Quaran preach that i have read and some teachings i have heard from the mouth of some islamic practitioners. double edged sword and all.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

PearlBoots,

Yes you quoted the numbers that I posted in the first page. You didn't say which one was wrong, if either, or why... Your perception of me as a frustrated girl is incorrect. I'm not frustrated. Lots of people on this thread, such as yourself, appear to be frustrated but I'm not one of them... As for ignoring things, I've attempted to respond to what I think is relevant. As I said earlier if I've missed anything particular people can point it out and I will respond (if you like). I'm sorry that it upset you so much for me to point out that your post was nonsensical, but - unless you can actually come up with a single contradiction - it was nonsensical... I'm not being intentionally difficult with you. What you wrote doesn't make sense.

most people are only familiar with the bad side of a few radical sects of islam.

I never said there was no good in Islam. It's a double edged sword, obviously, like Christianity. But the bad outweighs the bad.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

An I wouldn't feel comfortable overshadowing the great and good things with the small (but significant, nonetheless) issues.

They are not small issues.

He's generalized people of islam the entire post,

No I haven't. I'm not talking about the people of Islam. I'm talking about Islam, itself. I have made certain general statements about the attitudes of populations of Islamic people as determined by polls but I don't think I've made any general opinionated statements about people who happen to be Islamic.

 

[invegauser]

most people are only familiar with the bad side of a few radical sects of islam.

I never said there was no good in Islam. It's a double edged sword, obviously, like Christianity. But the bad outweighs the bad.

now your just reaching cause i was responding to PearlBoots and not to you or anyone in general.

funny how you take my responses to others as engaging with you when you still have yet to answer my question.

what specifically do you not like about islam (in so few of words)?

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Accidents happen. I'm not perfect. I wasn't reaching and I disagree with you. I don't think most people are only familiar with a few radical sects. I think the religion - relative to all other mainstream religions, and every other social structure that has or is currently governing us - is radical. People believe Islam is more moderate than it is... Like I said about spacejunk, it's funny how people on the left hate conservatives and defend Islam since Islam is basically extreme conservatism.

what specifically do you not like about islam

I've made this very clear.

edit: I'll sum it up for you, and add some stuff.

Islam is responsible for more deaths than other intangible man made thing that I'm aware of. It is a cult revolving around a child rapist and murderer. It is both a political and religious system, which is dangerous. Sharia law (somebody downplayed concern for it earlier) creates a dictatorship run by the church. Muslims in London and Paris want homosexuals jailed. They want sharia law in their communities. They don't want to follow the law. This is why old perverted Islamic men all over the world are getting married to little kids despite local law forbidding it. Because Mohammed is the law. And, that law is very disturbing. Women are treated less bad in some Islamic countries, but is there a single Islamic country that gives women equal rights? Islam is an inherently sexist and violent institution. Projected future Islamic populations are disturbing and the religion has shown no long-term signs of reformation. It promotes child rape. A fourteen year old girl was married to a man in his forties down the street from me a couple of years ago, in a mosque, surrounded by friends and family with church officials there. Like I said, Mohammed married Aisha when they were around the same age ratio. This is why Islamic men do it. Because they're following the religion of a rapist. There are numerous texts detailing how to treat sex slaves before selling them. It is also a religion that promotes violence. They still cut people's hands off.

Here's some notes about how you should cut people's hands off according to Sharia law:

• Dont cut off the hand if the amount stolen is less than in value of ( according to Hazrat Aysha ) One fourth of a Gold Dinar coin [[ 24k, approx 4.25grams of weight ]] that was at the time of Prophet Muhammad.
• Dont cut off hand if the item stolen is edible. ( Food )
• In theft of petty or low valued items, hand was not cut off at the time of Prophet. - Hazrat Ayesha

• Punishment of cutting hands does not apply if someone steals a bird.
• Punishment of cutting hands does not apply in case of Stealing from the central (government owned) treasury or bank. - Hazrat Ali
• Theft of musical items or of items of entertainment, e.g sports gear or toys, are also exempted from this punishment - according to Imam Hanifa

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Not everything has to be an argument..

 

[invegauser]

@ANT: so pedophilia, homosexuality, zealots, enforcing their way of life on others, population growth and extreme laws that aren't so cut and dry.

makes sense why you would not like islam as a religion.

you thinking of converting or are you trying to bring awareness of the not so benevolent ways of islam to the world?

i ask because i did answer your original OT question, which was...

bottom line and to answer your question: peace is fleeting. conflict within the human condition (soul and spirit are both part of this) is non transferable nor is it something you can expunge from yourself. all beliefs hold this to be true via a constant struggle to attain an end goal regardless of benevolent or malevolent ideology. trying to remove the pure bad from one or all human beings is like trying to remove the pure good as well... not going to happen. we need that friction regardless of how disdainful it is to anyone or any group of people (water which is too pure has no fish). it's a simple fact of life that this step in evolution is trying to make aware to all human beings.

why is peace fleeting? so you can have something to live for. you obtain, hold onto it, enjoy it for what it is; learn, experience and grow from it just so you can lose it and start trying to obtain it again. just like why hot dogs come in packages of ten and hot dog buns come in packages of eight.

to add to it and more directly answer your question: both are supposedly religions of peace. but like many here have already commented on. it's the religions that are peaceful and what humans do with those religions that is not peaceful.

so my question from above (in case it got lost in the response) is...

you thinking of converting or are you trying to bring awareness of the not so benevolent ways of islam to the world?

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

it's the religions that are peaceful and what humans do with those religions that is not peaceful

Buddhism and Christianity are more peaceful than Islam, both in text and interpretation/manifestation. Think about the central figures of all three religions.

Everything Jesus says is good.

Whereas the prophet of the Qur'an does and says some pretty horrible stuff...

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Sahih International (Qur'an 4:34): Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

The Buddha wasn't perfect - he left his family for some time to meditate - but the tone of his teachings is peaceful. More or less, the tone of Jesus' teachings are also peaceful... The tone of the Qur'an isn't peaceful. It was written by Mohammed over a long period of time and it consistently advocates violence.

Jesus was a pacifist (regardless of whether or not he was a real person).
Buddha was a pacifist.

Mohammed was a maniacal warlord rapist.

you thinking of converting or are you trying to bring awareness of the not so benevolent ways of islam to the world?

I'm genuinely concerned about the blindspot that Western society appears to have when it comes to the truth about Islam. Typically it's not this bad. But, there is always an unwillingness from many people to know. I think it's because we've been taught to feel guilty about intolerance. Numerous people in this thread have implied and/or outright stated that the Muslim population renders it beyond criticism. Since so many people follow it, it mustn't be so bad... But what if it is?

(I get the impression this is a pretty far-left forum... There are too few right-wing drug users.)

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

makes sense why you would not like islam as a religion.

Hallelujah!

 

[invegauser]

(I get the impression this is a pretty far-left forum... There are too few right-wing drug users here imo. i would like to see more right wing members joining up and posting here.)

ftfy. a lot of left leaning with plenty of right wingers. both sides tolerate me. truth is not as subjective as most would believe but right wingers hard line it too much and lefties are more tolerant with a wider generalized understanding of it.

here's the kicker about the abraham religions. they are all the same. the only thing they have in common is abraham, jesus and god... basically. jews and muslims think jesus was just another prophet. basically without being god in human form and without the super powers (just the power of prophecy). other than that they all agree that abraham wasn't too bad of a guy and god is yeah, yeah god is great. Yeah, yeah, god is good. just another stranger on the bus.

it's the path they choose to celebrate the man upstairs. (@PearlBoots: gonna need some clarifying help with the jewish part please cause i'm not one and need some proper contrast here) jews are stereotyped cause it's mostly true in their view on god (leaving out the practical world stereotypes that is) and lends to a rather wholesome belief imo. christians are kinda polarized fence sitters but in today's world they are mostly nice if not naive people (as long as they are not old school testament). muslims are more direct and misunderstood in their own way; forcing love is a contradiction. that last one is not to say it is better to rule with an iron fist but to say a closed fist can be just as protecting, loving and guiding in it's own right than an open one which can still be used to hurt and hinder; and that both are very easy to misinterpret.

so the whole my religion is right and better than yours thing is overplayed in today's world. i'm not an only child and i got tired of people bickering over better things at a very young age. can't we all just get a bong?

don't forget many westerners have their heads firmly planted in candy land so what they think they know about something is more like catching a glimpse of it while turning away from it in hopes of not having to face it; akin to seeing a shadow out of the corner of your eye while pulling the covers over ones head to hide from the boogey monster.

don't be like westerners and muslims (or your idea of them). be patient, keep an open mind and your only responsible for yourself. practice acceptance and love everyday otherwise the hate you see might be from the tainted filter of your own self.

other than that it is pretty clear where people stand on this site as far as becoming aware of the blind spot the western world has on muslims. you might find a more receptive crowd somewhere else but feel free to look around and post in other forums and threads. not like they are in short supply around here and lots of most excellent people.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

here's the kicker about the abraham religions. they are all the same.

They're not all the same and Christianity is not the same as Zoroastrianism.

If a man dressed in a Bugs Bunny outfit appeared in the background of a scene in the Halloween franchise, that wouldn't really bridge the gap between Looney Tunes and Michael Myers films... Christianity and Islam are obviously wildly different.

christians are kinda polarized fence sitters but in today's world they are mostly nice if not naive people (as long as they are not old school testament).

I agree with this, except not sure about polarized fence sitters? What do you mean by that?

practice acceptance and love everyday otherwise the hate you see might be from the tainted filter of your own self.

Bloody hippies.

Like I said, I think it's important to spread awareness regarding the violent nature of a religion that will soon account for a quarter of the population of the world. I love my family. I love life. It's not getting in the way of that any time soon. Talking about this stuff obviously upsets other people more than it does me. That's why I said in my first post to avoid this thread if you're going to get upset... Islam doesn't upset me. I'm concerned about it. I perceive it as a threat. But, I'm totally chill...

truth is not as subjective as most would believe but right wingers hard line it too much and lefties are more tolerant with a wider generalized understanding of it.

I agree about right wingers but not about lefties... It is unfortunate that people like Milo Yiannopolous and Ben Shapiro make it so easy for people to dislike them. But, the left is increasingly disabled by political correctness... to the extent that it is now almost verging on mental illness.

If you start a discussion with a right wing person about something - and they disagree - they're much less likely to get upset than a left wing person. They might be impatient or rude, but they will engage with ideas that challenge their right wing mentality more than people on the left IMO... Of course the vast majority of them - right or left - are not willing to change their mind. I've had many discussions with people who are impossible to convince. So, I can see why people here write me off. But, I genuinely do change my mind on a regular basis. My opinions are not dictated by the right.

Take this discussion as an example of left vs right.

So far nobody has done even a half-decent job of explaining how Islam is not significantly worse than Christianity and nobody has responded to the vast majority of my points, but about a dozen people have insulted me... I haven't insulted anyone. This is generally my experience with left wing people when trying to talk about Islam (and some other topics)... I'm not aware of an equivalent that right wing people are afraid of talking about. But, maybe there is one. I don't know.