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Effect of benzodiazepine tolerance on barbiturate tolerance/effectiveness

Matttry

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
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Not about phenobarbital, but the hypnotic ones.


I've taken a very high dose of clonazepam for years. 4 mg is a lot ... I didn't know the stuff was so potent. I'm off, but the tolerance is still there. There is cross tolerance, but how to what extent ?
 
They both have different sites of action(the way they effect GABAa receptors) so tolerance should not be effected that much.
 
Benzo and barbiturates both work on the GABA A receptor but work in different ways. Benzos increase the frequency with which the Cl- channel opens, but barbiturates act by leaving the Cl- channel open, so it agonizes the GABA A receptors in a more direct way than benzos. But what really makes barbiturates comparatively more dangerous than benzos is the way they antagonize AMPA glutamate receptors, so you're getting a "double whammy" of CNS depression. Just be conservative, play it safe, and employ common sense.
 
Barbiturate site ligands (agonists, obviously) that don't antagonize AMPA receptors can still be pretty toxic in overdose, just as barbs are, I take chlormethiazole, a barb site GABAergic that doesn't have the glutamatergic antagonistic effects of the barbs. Of those, I've experience only with pheno, and with barbital itself. Pheno is crap, barbital itself is actually pretty good stuff IMO, as long as one doesn't fuck up with it of course. As for differences between the two, I found barbital ot produce a LOT of 'brain fog' whilst taking it, whilst with chlormethiazole it's both a hefty, heavy duty wall-banger of an oldschool GABAergic depressant, a fossil from a bygone age that somehow, miraculously survived the mass extinctions inflicted on most of the oldschool depressants. The ones that were too good for the liking of those who loathe people seeking pleasure. Chlormethiazole, is really clean, clearheaded. Not too long acting, about 5-6 hours, so it won't build up and cause an OD due to a massive half life in the case of drugs excreted as slowly as some of the long-acting barbiturates after someone's been on it a while, takes their normal dose, and ODs because there is still a lot of the drug in their system, etc.
 
I had always thought barbs were PAM's at lower doses, and at higher doses were PAM's and agonists. Frequency of opening and being left open aren't really significantly different.
 
Aihl is correct. And frequency of opening can be compensated for by the body if the user exceeds the safe dose, by releasing less GABA. Causing activated channels to remain open, or things like shifting the activation kinetics to lower the threshold for inactivation, or prolongation of action potentials, , in the absence of any feedback such as from autoreceptors, to give the instructions to lower GABA release, that doesn't occur, and the body has far less potential to compensate.

And barb WDs are far worse than benzo WDs. And that, is saying something.

I would say barbiturate withdrawals, severe ones, are as bad again compared to benzo WDs or GHB withdrawals, as these are to mild opiate WD from something like codeine, hell maybe as bad compared to withdrawing from weed and feeling a bit sketched out and with no appetite.
 
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