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Thread: Light Pollution and Nocturnal Pollinators

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    #26
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    I don't understand this humancentric attitude that all other species have to have a 'purpose'. Their purpose is the same as ours - simply to survive. Often the act of surviving has additional benefits such as pollination or keeping populations of other species in check - but this isn't compulsorily...
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    #27
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    Well, living things have other reasons for existing , exist for no reason or maybe do not exist and are figments.

    The human impact has taken a balance out of nature as it was without us, yet we are products of evolution.

    Maybe we exist to be the catalyst of extinction of species that can not survive because of us as a process of natural selection.

    I dunno, pot is illegal here so moths are safe for now.
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    #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R
    As for the bee issue, what many people don't realise is that wasps are nearly as effective pollinators as bees - and there are no signs of wasps going extinct.
    while it is certainly true that bees aren't the only winged insect that act as pollinators, the massive decline in insect numbers doesn't just affect bees - it's a far greater problem than that.
    lots of the focus is on bees - and i assume that is partly because we have another reason to value bees; honey.
    most other insects don't rank too highly in the average person's concerns about extinction.
    indeed - some people think we'd be better off without moths, or mosquitos or other "creepy crawlies".
    unlike pandas and koalas and lots of other cute cuddly, critically endangered species, bugs aren't very popular, so it's easy to overlook their value and their role.

    regarding insect population concerns, here are some articles about the phenomenon i'm referring to;

    Where have all the insects gone?


    Without Bugs, We Might All Be Dead

    Insects Are In Serious Trouble: In western Germany, populations of flying insects have fallen by around 80 percent in the last three decades.

    there are many animals that help to pollenate various plants, it's not just bees. this is from wikipedia;
    Insect pollinators include bees, (honey bees, solitary species, bumblebees); pollen wasps (Masarinae); ants; flies including bee flies, hoverflies and mosquitoes; lepidopterans, both butterflies and moths; and flower beetles. Vertebrates, mainly bats and birds, but also some non-bat mammals (monkeys, lemurs, possums, rodents) and some lizards pollinate certain plants. Among the pollinating birds are hummingbirds, honeyeaters and sunbirds with long beaks; they pollinate a number of deep-throated flowers.
    link

    it's not just insects dying - or having their life cycles and behaviours disrupted by humans/technology/industry - that are the problem; it's the impact on whole ecological systems that is causing the most serious problems.

    there are a range of flow-on effects, for instance if there is a huge decrease in the insect populations, the animals which feed on those insects are also likely to be adversely affected.
    as some of those animals also act as pollinators - many bird species, for instance - the problem is bigger than the bees, the insects or even the pollinators.
    basically, we rely on a number of finely balanced ecological systems for our survival - but mankind has disrupted these natural cycles (with industry, agriculture, pollution, land-clearing and habitat disruption to name but a few) to such an extent that parts of the systems are collapsing.

    the fear held by many scientists is that if parts of these systems cease their normal functions (such as insects and other animals pollenating countless flora) it will set off something like a chain reaction, as other natural cycles are thrown out of balance.

    it's not hyperbole to say that our very survival depends on a range of fragile ecological systems, which we ignore at our own peril.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin
    I don't think I've ever asked you before and feel free to reply in private outside this thread, but what have you done to reduce your carbon footprint/emissions?
    i'm an environmentalist, and that is really where my interest in politics began, and my beliefs have always been influenced by my conservationist worldview.
    i'm not really one to boast about my carbon footprint - it's just one way of gauging individual people's sustainability (as it relates to climate change) but since you asked; i don't own a car - i get by with public transport, cycling and walking. i've been vegetarian for ~20 years - and these days i'm vegan - which lessens my carbon footprint significantly.
    and i just try to live as simply and as sustainably as i can, without being a total luddite - and trying to avoid making tokenistic gestures towards sustainable living which don't actually have any real impact. i try to be pragmatic, but i tend to consider the environmental cost of all sorts of thing. it's just how i think.

    i certainly don't try to claim any high moral ground - and obviously typing this on a computer - but i try to be an 'ethical consumer' where possible, which can be kinda complicated.

    for example, the electricity provider i buy my power through is the one with the best sustainability rating of the ones on offer - and we got a letter from the power company recently which informed my housemates and i that our usage is well under the average energy consumption of other australians.

    which might not seem terribly impressive for a tree-hugging greenie like myself - but they had actually calculated my whole household (which consists of 4 adults) as one person - and we were still way below the average usage per capita, apparently.

    those are just some very general things - but yeah, i make an effort to love as sustainably as possible, insofar as can. sadly modern civilisation is totally unsustainable, so as i said a few posts above, the efforts of individuals can only do so much; we need to make some massive changes as a society, or our the future of our species does not look bright.

    people often make gloomy predictions like this in regards to atmospheric pollution and climate change - but that is just one of many environmental catastrophes that threaten humanity and countless other species.

    the thing that i find sad is that we would have had a reasonable chance of avoiding some of these disasters, but so many people deliberately ignore that these are even problems.

    that isn't - and wasn't - intended as an attack on captain heroin. it's something that frustrates me, and i blame the politicians and leaders of industry for putting so much effort and money into denying that catastrophes like climate change are worth worrying about, or denying that it even exists.
    Last edited by spacejunk; 06-10-2018 at 13:47.
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    #29
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    ^ Hippie...
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    #30
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    #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacejunk View Post
    Vegetable rights and peace...
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    #32
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    Very interesting and thanks for sharing. I stopped owning a car for a while. Maybe a good 4 to 5 years.
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R. View Post
    As for the bee issue, what many people don't realise is that wasps are nearly as effective pollinators as bees - and there are no signs of wasps going extinct.
    Yeah, but wasps are awful, vicious fuckers, whereas bees are great and give us honey.
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    #34
    @spacejunk: i'm at a loss for words cause well said doesn't seem up to snuff.

    a scholar, a rocker and a hippie... far out man.
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    #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by quiet roar View Post
    Yeah, but wasps are awful, vicious fuckers, whereas bees are great and give us honey.
    Definitely would not have an issue with wasps being extinct.
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    #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by quiet roar View Post
    Yeah, but wasps are awful, vicious fuckers, whereas bees are great and give us honey.
    Wasps are fuckin awesome. Ok, they don't give us honey, but neither do bees - we take it, from their children. I reckon wasps get a totally undeserved bad press. I'm a pest controller and am guilty of killing thousands of them every year, but I only get stung probably 2 or 3 times each season. All they're trying to do is protect their colony...
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    #37
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    Some wasps actually do produce honey.

    I find wasps creepy looking and they scare me, but I don't want them extinct. Any extinction, especially when you're talking about an entire type of insects, is damaging to the ecosystem. Insects are the worker-level machines of the planet... any group of them going extinct is going to have dramatic and untold effects on the global ecosystem.
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    #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    Some wasps actually do produce honey.

    I find wasps creepy looking and they scare me, but I don't want them extinct. Any extinction, especially when you're talking about an entire type of insects, is damaging to the ecosystem. Insects are the worker-level machines of the planet... any group of them going extinct is going to have dramatic and untold effects on the global ecosystem.
    No. Wasps are good at stealing honey, but they don't make it afaik.
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    #39
    Shadowmeister
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    The Mexican honey wasp, Brachygastra mellifica
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    #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    The Mexican honey wasp, Brachygastra mellifica
    Interesting, thanks. Not a species I'm likely to come across mind you...
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